It's been 5 yrs. Can we now say Andrew Wiggins is a Bust?

[LibertyPrime]

Except...both Jabari Parker and Zach LaVine put up better numbers than Wiggins on far fewer minutes:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1_select=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1=wiggian01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jabari+Parker&player_id2_select=Jabari+Parker&player_id2=parkeja01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id3_select=Zach+LaVine&player_id3=lavinza01&idx=players

eFG%
1. LaVine .503
2. Jabari .514
3. Wiggins .472

TS%
1. LaVine .548
2. Jabari .546
3. Wiggins .520

BPM
1. LaVine -1.7
2. Jabari -1.6
3. Wiggins -2.5

VORP
1. LaVine 0.6
2. Jabari 0.8
3. Wiggins -1.7

Etc., etc. The only two things Wiggins is "better" at: playing longer minutes and taking more shots. The other two players are better at everything else, including scoring. So, basically, Wiggins is worse than two slightly below-average NBA players...which has been the point of everyone posting here saying he's a bust.

I imply y'all are abnormally obsessed with bashing Wiggins, and you fire back.....with neatly organized stats culled from the nerdier parts of the web, bashing Wiggins. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate you making my point for me.

Dude, it's called a "discussion," something that happens on a basketball discussion board. You don't like the thread? Don't click on it (and be sure to give your full-size Wiggins poster a big kiss good night...).

I seem to have touched a nerve.

[Yoshun]

Should we bump one of those "Who won the trade?" threads?

[LibertyPrime]

Should we bump one of those "Who won the trade?" threads?

Why not? Since everything in this thread has been done to death, like, a dozen times, we might as well make it Golden Oldies Day here on RealGM.

[pcbothwel]

Again, he's a bust for the money he's making. No one considers an average or below average NBA player a bust unless he's making max money. If Wiggings had Lavines contract, you reigned in his minutes and benched him when he sucked, his efficiency numbers would likely improve to be comparable to those guys.

But this thread is about Wiggins, who isn't an average or below average player. He's a terrible player that makes his team worse on both ends of the court.

Dear god...thank you.
Can some people name some of these Bench players that Wiggins is better than? Im talking 15-20+ MPG players... Anyone?

Lets take out the 5 Best and 5 worst teams in the NBA... So remove Bucks, Nuggets, GSW, Raptors ... along with NYK, Hawks, Suns, Cavs, and Bulls... Now lets look as some rotation players on the other teams to get a real look at the common NBA caliber 6th-8th man.
Loul Deng, DeMarre Carroll, Kurucs, Galloway, Stanley Johnson, Glenn Robinson, Wayne Ellington, Terrance Ross, Abrines, Layman, Hood, Crowder, Royce ONeal, Exum, Temple, Bogdan, Justin Jackson, Stephenson, Gerald Green, Bellinelli, Bertans, Finney-SMith, Dekker, Jeff Green....

These are all wing players on the Non-Elite/Non-Tanking teams.
Wiggins IS NOT AS GOOD as 80% of the players listed...
SO really, he is a 9th man on a middling team... In a league built for athletic wings, the most hyped athletic wing in a generation becoming a 9th man on a .500 team after 5 years of support with no injury history is beyond a Bust.

Again, he wasnt some overhyped dinosaur like Jahlil Okafor, Thomas Robinson, or Thabeet
He wasnt a propped up prospect due to lack of surrounding talent like Derrick Williams or Anthony Bennett
And he wasnt derailed by injuries like Greg Oden and Jay Williams .

Instead, he didnt have the IQ or work ethic to succeed. OJ Freaking Mayo's first 5 years were FAR better than what Wiggins has put together.
He is Michael Beasley/ Jonathan Bender on a max contract...
In fact, Im willing to bet that in 2 years a 30 y/o John Wall making 40M per year will be better value than whatever the hell Wiggins is.

[Ice Man]

Ummm, yeah we can say he's a bust. He's a flat-out bad player who only starts because Minnesota is too embarrassed not to start him. He's an inefficient volume chucker who doesn't rebound well for his position, or pass, or defend. He remains deeply overrated, because he really shouldn't be discussed any more than, say, David Nwaba (who is a better player, actually).

[mannyd7]

Andrew Wiggins is straight up bad....I wouldn't even want him as a volume bench scorer... Jordan Clarkson is a much better volume scorer and his basketball iq is almost non-existent.

To be fair...he is 23 years old. But 5 years of NBA miles is a lot. He should have shown growth of some kind

[Quentin]

And you are and idiot that can't read. I suggest you go troll somewhere else. I'm done.

Thank you! Obvious typo on my part which you proved. Should have said would've which is what you said. All arguments remain the same.

Especially the idiot part.....

Agreed! You're an idiot for saying he would have received the max from another team. Nostradamus!!

[DreDay]

Fun exercise comparing Wiggins to a range of players people claim as busts.

PER - 10.3/14.6/14.4/12.3/15.7
WS/48 - .099/.046/.057/.040/.054
TS% - 58.7/52.0/53.1/48.1/52.0
BPM - -1.4/-2.5/-2.2/-1.6/-3.2

Guess which one is Wiggins...or whether it even matters looking at the comparisons.

It's all hype, athleticism and empty volume stats that sees him even today avoid legitimate criticism.

[BR0D1E86]

This is closer to the truth. Heck, if Wiggins was making Jabari Parker or Zach Lavine money then we don't see these threads (again, and again, and again, and again......)

Well, see you all again in two weeks when someone else remakes this exact thread for the thirtieth time!

Except...both Jabari Parker and Zach LaVine put up better numbers than Wiggins on far fewer minutes:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1_select=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1=wiggian01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jabari+Parker&player_id2_select=Jabari+Parker&player_id2=parkeja01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id3_select=Zach+LaVine&player_id3=lavinza01&idx=players

eFG%
1. LaVine .503
2. Jabari .514
3. Wiggins .472

TS%
1. LaVine .548
2. Jabari .546
3. Wiggins .520

BPM
1. LaVine -1.7
2. Jabari -1.6
3. Wiggins -2.5

VORP
1. LaVine 0.6
2. Jabari 0.8
3. Wiggins -1.7

Etc., etc. The only two things Wiggins is "better" at: playing longer minutes and taking more shots. The other two players are better at everything else, including scoring. So, basically, Wiggins is worse than two slightly below-average NBA players...which has been the point of everyone posting here saying he's a bust.

Again, he's a bust for the money he's making. No one considers an average or below average NBA player a bust unless he's making max money. If Wiggings had Lavines contract, you reigned in his minutes and benched him when he sucked, his efficiency numbers would likely improve to be comparable to those guys.

If you benched him when he sucked, he’d never play. He’d be horrifically overpaid at Lavine’s salary.

He’s performed like a guy who barely belongs in the league but has been given an unlimited green light. It’s entirely in spite of his performance, which has been at the level of one of the worst players in the league for five consecutive seasons now.

[SF_Warriors]

Clubbing Wiggins with KAT when it comes to effort, drive etc is just stupid...if KAT didn't put in effort or didn't have drive, then Wolves would be having a record like 15-16 wins right now instead of 27 wins

Also want to point out that love was a 2x all star in minny by the time he was wiggins age

Wiggins has been a disappointment for sure ... it sucks all that money and talent and the Wolves are still on the outside looking in... how long before we here rumblings of KAT wanting out?

I would say within a couple of years if the wolves are not able to continue building around him.

[Trippinskarlo]

Busts cant put up 20ppg

Every single player in the NBA is capable of averaging 20 ppg

[life_saver]

Just look at Wiggins impact on the team this season lol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[spicy6]

You really dont know what a bust is. Anybody that gives you 20 a night isnt a bust no matter how hollow at times they may be. A bust is a guy like bennet, noel, flynn, thabeet, etc...

[Sign5]

Yes but he's getting PAID.

[Michael Jordan]

A bust isn't capable of putting up 20PPG over 5 seasons. Wiggins is just criminally overpaid.

Anyone can put up 20 PPG with enough shots. Dude is averaging 18 points on 17 shots this year. He's beyond awful.

Can you put up 20 PPG?

[thinktank]

Just look at Wiggins impact on the team this season lol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

What is the definition of “Total Points Added”, “Defensive Points Saved”, and “Offensive Points Added”, etc.?

Usually math-oriented websites disclose their equations used, definitions, etc.

Without knowing this, the creator of these charts could have plotted these face icons per his/her whim.

NBA Math doesn’t seem very “mathy”.

Just sayin’.

[clyde21]

Minny is is so dumb giving this guy the max after showing no improvement his first three years in the league

[skones]

You really dont know what a bust is. Anybody that gives you 20 a night isnt a bust no matter how hollow at times they may be. A bust is a guy like bennet, noel, flynn, thabeet, etc...

Michael Beasley put up 19 a night for a season. He ended up having to go to China before he was able to resume his NBA career. Andrea Bargnani averaged 21 a night for a season and was long a laughing stock as a player.

Nerlens Noel is a better player than Wiggins because he actually does positive things for his team on the floor, but he's a bust and Wiggins is not?

[Ron Swanson]

No, not "every" NBA player can put up 20 PPG. Yes, Wiggins is a bust.

It really is a shame given that the dude has all the physical tools and freakish athletic ability to be a superstar in this league. But this is what people are talking about when they say that a guy lacks that "killer instinct" and/or "alpha dog mentality". I don't use those cliche words per say, but so much of being an elite athlete is the mental side of things. The competitiveness and desire to improve just don't seem to be there with him. He's just comfortable "getting his" and getting paid.

[yannisk]

He is Michael Beasley/ Jonathan Bender on a max contract...

Unfair to Beasley imo if Beasley is given the minutes he will score more, more efficiently, rebound more etc