could elena delle donne play in the nba?

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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#241 » by Egg Nog » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:11 am

gundysmullet wrote:There is male, and there is female. You cannot change it, nor choose it. If you think you are the opposite of what you are, then yes by definition you are confused. You do not do people any justice by perpetuating a lie and tell them they can be whatever they want to be. As I stated, up until 20 years it was a mental health issue and was called gendered body dysmorphia. But unfortunately hypersensitive political correctness no longer allows us to treat people with sensitivity and the mental health care that they need so we lie to their face to make themselves, and to be honest, ourselves feel good meanwhile they continue to believe a lie. Again, it’s really about you. You’re just trying to feel good about yourself. Because if you really cared about someone and they were stating a blatant lie as a fact, you would try to help them. But you don’t, you placate them, because it makes you feel good.


You've made it clear how you feel about this matter. The word is "dysphoria" by the way.

So a family friend feels tormented in their own body for years, transitions to a "man" (I put that in quotes for you so your head doesn't explode) and becomes happy. Passes perfectly as a man, is in a relationship, is no longer depressed. There is no lie. They are trans. They are fully aware that their genitals are still the way they always were. They don't need a self-appointed hero such as yourself to point that out.

Yeah, I guess I must be happy that my family friend is finally at peace with their own existence because of my own selfish personal greed. Riiiiight.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#242 » by Egg Nog » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:29 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Eric Millegan wrote:The fact that Mugsy Bogues could play at a high starter level in the NBA tells me a short strong fast high percentage shooting woman could make third string PG in the NBA. She would have to be special. A big woman could never make it though. IMO.


Muggsy was ridiculously quick. Just watch some old Muggsy highlights and you see him speeding around elite level athletes. You're not going to find a woman that is as quick, strong and athletic as Muggsy was and Muggsy is the definition of an exception of a rule. I think you're drastically underestimating just how quick and strong Muggsy was.


Here's a thought: Put a trans prime Muggsy Bogues (no hormone therapy) in the WNBA, what happens?

Seems like they would absolutely tear up the league, MVP every season.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#243 » by post » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:40 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Its easier to throw a smaller ball into the same size basket. I'm not saying you give Della Donne an NBA sized ball she would shoot in the 60s, but without a doubt it gives a boost to the percentage by some degree.


Maybe, maybe not. I don't know, she is 6'4 I don't think an NBA sized ball would really throw her off that much.


Doubt it would be hard for her to handle it but i mean it's easier to put a smaller ball through a rim. You simply have more room for error.


in the 2004 olympics the men and women used the same ball

the wnba as a league shot 74% from the line in 2004

team u.s.a. women shot 76% in the olympics in 2004

if you take out yolanda griffith's free throws, the percentage goes up to 81%

oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#244 » by gundysmullet » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:41 am

Egg Nog wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:There is male, and there is female. You cannot change it, nor choose it. If you think you are the opposite of what you are, then yes by definition you are confused. You do not do people any justice by perpetuating a lie and tell them they can be whatever they want to be. As I stated, up until 20 years it was a mental health issue and was called gendered body dysmorphia. But unfortunately hypersensitive political correctness no longer allows us to treat people with sensitivity and the mental health care that they need so we lie to their face to make themselves, and to be honest, ourselves feel good meanwhile they continue to believe a lie. Again, it’s really about you. You’re just trying to feel good about yourself. Because if you really cared about someone and they were stating a blatant lie as a fact, you would try to help them. But you don’t, you placate them, because it makes you feel good.


You've made it clear how you feel about this matter. The word is "dysphoria" by the way, "dysmorphia" is something different.

So a family friend feels tormented in their own body for years, transitions to a "man" (I put that in quotes for you so your head doesn't explode) and becomes happy. Passes perfectly as a man, is in a relationship, is no longer depressed. There is no lie. They are trans. They are fully aware that their genitals are still the way they always were. They don't need a self-appointed hero such as yourself to point that out.

Yeah, I guess I must be happy that my family friend is finally at peace with their own existence because of my own selfish personal greed. Riiiiight.


Why the snide, condescension? Can't you have a civil discussion with someone that has an opinion that differs from your own, or are you really that intolerant? I don't believe that they're happy and even if they are, it is a mental health issue to believe that your something that you're not. Science says that your friend is a woman regardless of how she "feels". We all feel things sometimes, but we don't act on our feelings all of the time. Do you know the stats of people who "feel" that they're the opposite sex, but later that feeling dissipates? It's quite high. Anyway, I believe in science, truth and factual correctness over political correctness. I also care enough to tell people that they're living a lie and need help.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#245 » by Egg Nog » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:50 am

gundysmullet wrote:
Egg Nog wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:There is male, and there is female. You cannot change it, nor choose it. If you think you are the opposite of what you are, then yes by definition you are confused. You do not do people any justice by perpetuating a lie and tell them they can be whatever they want to be. As I stated, up until 20 years it was a mental health issue and was called gendered body dysmorphia. But unfortunately hypersensitive political correctness no longer allows us to treat people with sensitivity and the mental health care that they need so we lie to their face to make themselves, and to be honest, ourselves feel good meanwhile they continue to believe a lie. Again, it’s really about you. You’re just trying to feel good about yourself. Because if you really cared about someone and they were stating a blatant lie as a fact, you would try to help them. But you don’t, you placate them, because it makes you feel good.


You've made it clear how you feel about this matter. The word is "dysphoria" by the way, "dysmorphia" is something different.

So a family friend feels tormented in their own body for years, transitions to a "man" (I put that in quotes for you so your head doesn't explode) and becomes happy. Passes perfectly as a man, is in a relationship, is no longer depressed. There is no lie. They are trans. They are fully aware that their genitals are still the way they always were. They don't need a self-appointed hero such as yourself to point that out.

Yeah, I guess I must be happy that my family friend is finally at peace with their own existence because of my own selfish personal greed. Riiiiight.


Why the snide, condescension? Can't you have a civil discussion with someone that has an opinion that differs from your own, or are you really that intolerant? I don't believe that they're happy and even if they are, it is a mental health issue to believe that your something that you're not. Science says that your friend is a woman regardless of how she "feels". We all feel things sometimes, but we don't act on our feelings all of the time. Do you know the stats of people who "feel" that they're the opposite sex, but later that feeling dissipates? It's quite high. Anyway, I believe in science, truth and factual correctness over political correctness. I also care enough to tell people that they're living a lie and need help.


I'll tell you exactly why: You opt to "tell people that they're living a lie and need help"...if you cared enough to actually ask trans people how they feel about this "differing opinion" you'd quickly find that it (A) does not help and (B) is a major contributing factor to suicides. Why on earth should anyone be civil with you? People don't generally stop spewing opinions like that until you make them feel bad about themselves.

Tell you what though...if me being uncivil tormented you and made you feel suicidal, I would certainly apologize, reconsider my approach, and try to be more sensitive.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#246 » by dc » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:52 am

post wrote:oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold


I'm not sure why that argument is ever used in these types of discussions. The women won gold vs. other women. The men won the bronze playing against other men, which means the gold was also won by men.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#247 » by post » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:01 am

dc wrote:
post wrote:oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold


I'm not sure why that argument is ever used in these types of discussions. The women won gold vs. other women. The men won the bronze playing against other men, which means the gold was also won by men.


i know, i just think it's funny
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#248 » by Samurai » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:26 am

Given that Elena is making less than $117K/year in the WNBA and she would be making around $1M as an NBA rookie, plus countless millions more in endorsement/book/movie deals as the first NBA player to break the gender barrier, my guess is that if she could make an NBA team, she would be there already.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#249 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:33 am

Samurai wrote:Given that Elena is making less than $117K/year in the WNBA and she would be making around $1M as an NBA rookie, plus countless millions more in endorsement/book/movie deals as the first NBA player to break the gender barrier, my guess is that if she could make an NBA team, she would be there already.


Until there is a woman, who legimiately deserves to be in the NBA (even as a end of the bench role player), a player like Elena going in would be a considered a publicitiy stunt and would do more harm than good.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#250 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:34 am

post wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. I don't know, she is 6'4 I don't think an NBA sized ball would really throw her off that much.


Doubt it would be hard for her to handle it but i mean it's easier to put a smaller ball through a rim. You simply have more room for error.


in the 2004 olympics the men and women used the same ball

the wnba as a league shot 74% from the line in 2004

team u.s.a. women shot 76% in the olympics in 2004

if you take out yolanda griffith's free throws, the percentage goes up to 81%

oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold


umm...ok. None of this changes that a smaller ball is easier to put through a rim. Also weird to compare the WNBA numbers to the olympic team's but anyway.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#251 » by LKN » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:35 am

I'm guessing zero people in this thread are actually professional therapists/doctors or researchers that treat/study transsexuals.

Because there is a TON of this going on here:

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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#252 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:01 am

post wrote:
dc wrote:
post wrote:oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold


I'm not sure why that argument is ever used in these types of discussions. The women won gold vs. other women. The men won the bronze playing against other men, which means the gold was also won by men.


i know, i just think it's funny


it's not funny at all, it's a stupid point, and ur not doing the women's game any favors making stupid threads like this
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#253 » by post » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:03 am

Samurai wrote:Given that Elena is making less than $117K/year in the WNBA and she would be making around $1M as an NBA rookie, plus countless millions more in endorsement/book/movie deals as the first NBA player to break the gender barrier, my guess is that if she could make an NBA team, she would be there already.


not everyone cares about money

after you have a certain amount it doesn't make you happier to have more

dhsilv2 wrote:
post wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Doubt it would be hard for her to handle it but i mean it's easier to put a smaller ball through a rim. You simply have more room for error.


in the 2004 olympics the men and women used the same ball

the wnba as a league shot 74% from the line in 2004

team u.s.a. women shot 76% in the olympics in 2004

if you take out yolanda griffith's free throws, the percentage goes up to 81%

oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold


umm...ok. None of this changes that a smaller ball is easier to put through a rim. Also weird to compare the WNBA numbers to the olympic team's but anyway.


the point is if you think it's harder the women didn't find it harder because their percentages went up. i could give you individual players statistics instead of the wnba league average for 2004. lisa leslie shot higher from the line in the 2004 olympics than her career free throw percentage. so did sheryl swoopes. so did other women on the olympic team
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#254 » by post » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:07 am

clyde21 wrote:
post wrote:
dc wrote:
I'm not sure why that argument is ever used in these types of discussions. The women won gold vs. other women. The men won the bronze playing against other men, which means the gold was also won by men.


i know, i just think it's funny


it's not funny at all, it's a stupid point, and ur not doing the women's game any favors making stupid threads like this


i don't think anything i or anyone else says on an internet message board is going to significantly help or harm women athletes
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#255 » by HeartBreakKid » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:09 am

post wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
post wrote:
i know, i just think it's funny


it's not funny at all, it's a stupid point, and ur not doing the women's game any favors making stupid threads like this


i don't think anything i or anyone else says on an internet message board is going to significantly help or harm women athletes


The internet has quite a bit of influence on the way people perceive things - but sure. Regardless, you made a pretty crappy thread.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#256 » by post » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:20 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
post wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
it's not funny at all, it's a stupid point, and ur not doing the women's game any favors making stupid threads like this


i don't think anything i or anyone else says on an internet message board is going to significantly help or harm women athletes


The internet has quite a bit of influence on the way people perceive things - but sure. Regardless, you made a pretty crappy thread.


if rihanna posts a picture of herself on instagram 75 million people care

if i talk about elena delle donne and manon rheaume 75 people care
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#257 » by picko » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:38 am

These conversations are always functionally stupid and bring out the worst in people.

The only way a woman could make the NBA is if they have a specific skill that is a clear outlier within the NBA. For example, if a woman in the WNBA could hit 70% of their three-point attempts then they might be able to successfully apply that skill at a high enough level even against more athletic defense.

In reality, any sport that requires a combination of strength and speed, will be almost impossible for women to compete against men. Serena Williams is a prime example of this. Arguably the most accomplished tennis player in history but in open competition she would never have qualified for an ATP tournament let alone won a tournament.

And you know what? That is perfectly fine. The achievement of sportswomen should be measured against their competition in the same way that the achievements of sportsmen are. We don't need to denigrate a woman's achievements because they cannot compete against men. Elena Delle Donne is a fantastic basketball player and should be admired for those achievements.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#258 » by Capn'O » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:38 am

LKN wrote:I'm guessing zero people in this thread are actually professional therapists/doctors or researchers that treat/study transsexuals.

Because there is a TON of this going on here:

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Or have met one.

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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#259 » by Shock Defeat » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:52 am

gundysmullet wrote:
13th Man wrote:Good post Egg Nog. I don't mean to imply that trans people have made totally irrational decisions either. I'm sure that along with psychological, there may be physiological factors that could play into it as well, more complex than what we understand.

In any case I think that we're on the same page in that we only wish them the best as long as they're not harming other people or harming themselves.


Believing that you are the opposite gender of what you are is “harming yourself“. And to perpetuate the lie does hurt them. If I told you I was a cocker spaniel would you put a leash on me, rub my belly and let me go poop in the backyard? No, you would tell me that you care about me but I need help. Yet men are claiming to be women, and vice versa when biology tells us this is a lie and we just nod our head like barking seals because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

There's a reason that there's science, and yes, biological support, for trans but not anything to support people believing that they are a different skin color, or a different mammal. Given that you don't even know this, your arguments are pure BS. Straight up.

You seem unintelligent on this subject. Hope you don't get offended at this comment but I'm just calling it how I read it.
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Re: could elena delle donne play in the nba? 

Post#260 » by post » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:53 am

picko wrote:These conversations are always functionally stupid and bring out the worst in people.

The only way a woman could make the NBA is if they have a specific skill that is a clear outlier within the NBA. For example, if a woman in the WNBA could hit 70% of their three-point attempts then they might be able to successfully apply that skill at a high enough level even against more athletic defense.

In reality, any sport that requires a combination of strength and speed, will be almost impossible for women to compete against men. Serena Williams is a prime example of this. Arguably the most accomplished tennis player in history but in open competition she would never have qualified for an ATP tournament let alone won a tournament.

And you know what? That is perfectly fine. The achievement of sportswomen should be measured against their competition in the same way that the achievements of sportsmen are. We don't need to denigrate a woman's achievements because they cannot compete against men. Elena Delle Donne is a fantastic basketball player and should be admired for those achievements.


jennifer azzi hit 51% from 3 two different seasons in the wnba

are you sure it's 70%? or maybe it's 69%?

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