MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[Yuri36]

Right now, Luka Doncic has the second best efficiency in the league behind Giannis.
This kid is just insane.

[RB34]

Right now, Luka Doncic has the second best efficiency in the league behind Giannis.
This kid is just insane.

Watching him pass out of the doubles against the Celtics today was insane, he found the open man every time.

[Knicks7Tape]

Anthony Davis
Harden
Kawhi
PG
Irving
Spicy P

[brettski]

As far as I remember, Giannis has yet to complete an entire season playing as well as he does the first 3 months.

First 3 months (33 games) : 26.6 pts | 12.8 reb | 6.1 ast | .636 TS%

Last 4 months ( 39 games) : 28.6 pts | 12.3 reb | 5.7 ast | .651 TS%

Seems like he had a pretty complete season last year. You don't win MVPs by cooling off for the last 4 months of the year

Good call on that for last year being the aberration. But as I've remembered, and as the stats back it up when you look at this career splits and splits the previous seasons, Giannis has been a historically hot starter. Especially in the first month of games, which we're still in. It remains to be seen whether last year was an outlier compared to the rest of his career or the mark of a new norm.

But I'm still gonna go with what I've experienced watching Giannis over the years and not put stock on him continuing to play at the level he is now, primarily because I think he's just in peak condition right now which allows his physical superiority to stand out more than it does by the end of the season after he's worn out. I'll be interested to see if he proves me wrong this year, after which I'll officially take him out of my 'hot starter' category and give him the benefit of the doubt when he posts insane statlines to start the season.

As a bucks fan you're 100% right about Giannis in earlier years. But what you're not factoring in are his minutes. Kidd rode him and Middleton hard. Like 40 mins a night hard (3 year average around 36mpg). One year I think both were around top 5 minutes played.

Last year Bud had him at 32-33 all season so he didnt get fatigued at the back end. This season he is playing 33mpg so far! Thats why it is sustainable.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Kemba needs to at least be an option...Celtics have the best record in the league

He wont win, but I wish I couldve thrown down some money on his 66:1 preseason odds.

[Joest2003]

Kemba needs to at least be an option...Celtics have the best record in the league

He wont win, but I wish I couldve thrown down some money on his 66:1 preseason odds.

I said this months ago and got laughed at.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Kemba needs to at least be an option...Celtics have the best record in the league

He wont win, but I wish I couldve thrown down some money on his 66:1 preseason odds.

I said this months ago and got laughed at.

15 to win nearly 1000 feels like a good gamble

[TMU]

Team record matters a ton. I am going with Anthony Davis whose defense has been impeccable as well.

[Heej]

First 3 months (33 games) : 26.6 pts | 12.8 reb | 6.1 ast | .636 TS%

Last 4 months ( 39 games) : 28.6 pts | 12.3 reb | 5.7 ast | .651 TS%

Seems like he had a pretty complete season last year. You don't win MVPs by cooling off for the last 4 months of the year

Good call on that for last year being the aberration. But as I've remembered, and as the stats back it up when you look at this career splits and splits the previous seasons, Giannis has been a historically hot starter. Especially in the first month of games, which we're still in. It remains to be seen whether last year was an outlier compared to the rest of his career or the mark of a new norm.

But I'm still gonna go with what I've experienced watching Giannis over the years and not put stock on him continuing to play at the level he is now, primarily because I think he's just in peak condition right now which allows his physical superiority to stand out more than it does by the end of the season after he's worn out. I'll be interested to see if he proves me wrong this year, after which I'll officially take him out of my 'hot starter' category and give him the benefit of the doubt when he posts insane statlines to start the season.

As a bucks fan you're 100% right about Giannis in earlier years. But what you're not factoring in are his minutes. Kidd rode him and Middleton hard. Like 40 mins a night hard (3 year average around 36mpg). One year I think both were around top 5 minutes played.

Last year Bud had him at 32-33 all season so he didnt get fatigued at the back end. This season he is playing 33mpg so far! Thats why it is sustainable.

Gotcha that makes a lot of sense. I've noticed his minutes were crazy low for his production last year. Looking forward to see what he does this year

[AussieBuck]

Good call on that for last year being the aberration. But as I've remembered, and as the stats back it up when you look at this career splits and splits the previous seasons, Giannis has been a historically hot starter. Especially in the first month of games, which we're still in. It remains to be seen whether last year was an outlier compared to the rest of his career or the mark of a new norm.

But I'm still gonna go with what I've experienced watching Giannis over the years and not put stock on him continuing to play at the level he is now, primarily because I think he's just in peak condition right now which allows his physical superiority to stand out more than it does by the end of the season after he's worn out. I'll be interested to see if he proves me wrong this year, after which I'll officially take him out of my 'hot starter' category and give him the benefit of the doubt when he posts insane statlines to start the season.

As a bucks fan you're 100% right about Giannis in earlier years. But what you're not factoring in are his minutes. Kidd rode him and Middleton hard. Like 40 mins a night hard (3 year average around 36mpg). One year I think both were around top 5 minutes played.

Last year Bud had him at 32-33 all season so he didnt get fatigued at the back end. This season he is playing 33mpg so far! Thats why it is sustainable.

Gotcha that makes a lot of sense. I've noticed his minutes were crazy low for his production last year. Looking forward to see what he does this year

To add to this Kidd also ran his players into the ground in practice. Everyone who played under both coaching staffs has commented on the difference with the current staff running targeted and efficient training. Fitness staff get a say in things, basic professional sporting team stuff that was previously lacking.

[BloodNinja]

Right now, Luka Doncic has the second best efficiency in the league behind Giannis.
This kid is just insane.

Watching him pass out of the doubles against the Celtics today was insane, he found the open man every time.

That's the advantage of having an elite tall play maker. Smaller guys like Curry/Lillard are easier to trap.

[brettski]

Good call on that for last year being the aberration. But as I've remembered, and as the stats back it up when you look at this career splits and splits the previous seasons, Giannis has been a historically hot starter. Especially in the first month of games, which we're still in. It remains to be seen whether last year was an outlier compared to the rest of his career or the mark of a new norm.

But I'm still gonna go with what I've experienced watching Giannis over the years and not put stock on him continuing to play at the level he is now, primarily because I think he's just in peak condition right now which allows his physical superiority to stand out more than it does by the end of the season after he's worn out. I'll be interested to see if he proves me wrong this year, after which I'll officially take him out of my 'hot starter' category and give him the benefit of the doubt when he posts insane statlines to start the season.

As a bucks fan you're 100% right about Giannis in earlier years. But what you're not factoring in are his minutes. Kidd rode him and Middleton hard. Like 40 mins a night hard (3 year average around 36mpg). One year I think both were around top 5 minutes played.

Last year Bud had him at 32-33 all season so he didnt get fatigued at the back end. This season he is playing 33mpg so far! Thats why it is sustainable.

Gotcha that makes a lot of sense. I've noticed his minutes were crazy low for his production last year. Looking forward to see what he does this year

Me too but I mostly just expect consistency. In those Kidd years I bet if you made a shot chart by 1/3 of the season at the back end you would sre a lot more of Giannis settling for mid range jumpers because he was too tired to bang on his drives and take contact. Certainly thats what the eye test was showing.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[Swish1906]

And this three still have no shot against Giannis, who also racks up insane stats but plays defense on a whole another level...ehm planet

[ThunderBolt]

IIRC, Kemba seems to have started out hot the last couple of years and then quietly come back down to earth.

[AdagioPace]

Read on Twitter

Master Stepbacko with Guka and Traeillin

[KqWIN]

I'm listening to Bill Simmons and Kevin O'Connor do their 10 game awards and Luka came up as the 2nd MVP candidate behind Giannis. Bill's reasoning, "They're really really good at offense and he's the only reason why".

Makes sense, but after taking a look at the numbers the Mavericks are 6.1 points worse per100 on offense with Luka on the court. They are 15.9 points overall with Luka on the court. I'm not saying this is on Luka, clearly this is some collateral damage with Porzingis who has been terrible.

However, when you think about Luka carrying the Mavs to success on his own, this is not necessarily true. Their reserve units are doing well and that is why they are 6-4.

[Swish1906]

I'm listening to Bill Simmons and Kevin O'Connor do their 10 game awards and Luka came up as the 2nd MVP candidate behind Giannis. Bill's reasoning, "They're really really good at offense and he's the only reason why".

Makes sense, but after taking a look at the numbers the Mavericks are 6.1 points worse per100 on offense with Luka on the court. They are 15.9 points overall with Luka on the court. I'm not saying this is on Luka, clearly this is some collateral damage with Porzingis who has been terrible.

However, when you think about Luka carrying the Mavs to success on his own, this is not necessarily true. Their reserve units are doing well and that is why they are 6-4.

This was discussed several times:

The deep Mavs bench is destroying the other benches (except the Knicks game)
Carlisle messing with the S5 every single game and the S5 BESIDE Luka isnt working well

So thats a perfect example of the flaws of on/off stats

[KqWIN]

I'm listening to Bill Simmons and Kevin O'Connor do their 10 game awards and Luka came up as the 2nd MVP candidate behind Giannis. Bill's reasoning, "They're really really good at offense and he's the only reason why".

Makes sense, but after taking a look at the numbers the Mavericks are 6.1 points worse per100 on offense with Luka on the court. They are 15.9 points overall with Luka on the court. I'm not saying this is on Luka, clearly this is some collateral damage with Porzingis who has been terrible.

However, when you think about Luka carrying the Mavs to success on his own, this is not necessarily true. Their reserve units are doing well and that is why they are 6-4.

This was discussed several times:

The deep Mavs bench is destroying the other benches (except the Knicks game)
Carlisle messing with the S5 every single game and the S5 BESIDE Luka isnt working well

So thats a perfect example of the flaws of on/off stats

It's just worth noting that the Mavs are being crushed when Luka is on the court. Doesn't mean he's bad or the cause for it, but like I said, I think people assume that the Mavs are doing well because there is Luka and no one else.

Dame is not a consideration because his team is so bad. Should having a good/bad bench impact your candidacy?

[Colbinii]

I'm listening to Bill Simmons and Kevin O'Connor do their 10 game awards and Luka came up as the 2nd MVP candidate behind Giannis. Bill's reasoning, "They're really really good at offense and he's the only reason why".

Makes sense, but after taking a look at the numbers the Mavericks are 6.1 points worse per100 on offense with Luka on the court. They are 15.9 points overall with Luka on the court. I'm not saying this is on Luka, clearly this is some collateral damage with Porzingis who has been terrible.

However, when you think about Luka carrying the Mavs to success on his own, this is not necessarily true. Their reserve units are doing well and that is why they are 6-4.

This was discussed several times:

The deep Mavs bench is destroying the other benches (except the Knicks game)
Carlisle messing with the S5 every single game and the S5 BESIDE Luka isnt working well

So thats a perfect example of the flaws of on/off stats

It's just worth noting that the Mavs are being crushed when Luka is on the court. Doesn't mean he's bad or the cause for it, but like I said, I think people assume that the Mavs are doing well because there is Luka and no one else.

Dame is not a consideration because his team is so bad. Should having a good/bad bench impact your candidacy?

Luka is at the point in his career where he is figuring out how to really impact a game as he already has the numbers side of things figured out. Think about a Young LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Russell Westbrook, Michael Jordan, ect.

It isn't so much his numbers overrate his impact it is that other players impact is greater than their numbers appears [Current Giannis, Prime James, KG/Duncan, ect].