Would James Harden and Blake Griffin for Lonzo Ball and Nikola Vucevic trade be upgrade for the Nets ?

[Dez]

Yeah I'd rather take a chance on what we have than Harden and his iso-ball.

[Antinomy]

Blake is worth practically nothing at this point & I don’t think Harden (at this stage) is worth 2 legitimate above average starters.

[pr0wler]

Yeah I'd rather take a chance on what we have than Harden and his iso-ball.

Yeah that damn iso-ball that led a #1 or 2 offense for 3 straight seasons. This despite the GOAT talent Warriors being at the top of their game lol.

Waiting for the rebuttal that the Rockets couldn't beat the Warriors, a team with superior talent, in the conference finals. Therefore their Harden-centric strategy on offense in invalided.

[pr0wler]

Harden isn’t playing like we are use too. He always chokes in the post season - however I would stay put if I was the Nets.

The Bulls chemistry is great and I wouldn’t make a move.

I think that’s the thing Harden fans are getting their panties in a bunch. No one is really saying Lonzo or Vooch are better than Harden. In terms of fit, harden doesn’t fit with the Bulls. We lose our best rebounder and one of the better 3&D PGs in the league. It’s about fit, take a look at the Lakers. Hard no from Chicago.

Talent is 10x more important than fit.

The same stupid arguments were made about Durant with the Warriors. LeBron with the Heat. LeBron and Davis.

They don't "fit together." Great players figure it out.

The problem with Westbrick isn't fit. He just sucks and isn't a winning basketball player. Hes never fit with anyone hes played with.

Lavine/Derozan/Harden would probably be the favorites in the East.

Exactly. How many iterations of teams does Russ have to play in before people realize he just isn't that good anymore?

He had an all-time perfect setup in Houston with the gimmicky small-ball, and was able to attack 4 on 3 closeouts basically every possession since Harden was double teamed constantly. And although he had a decent run for a couple months, when the post season came and teams just stopped guarding him outside of 5 feet, he was horrific on offense. And don't get me started about the ball watching on defense.

[AussieCeltic]

Both teams fans getting upset but both are right.

Harden is the best player in the trade by a long way, but I don’t think the Bulls would trade for him given roster, age, contract.

The Nets wouldn’t make the trade either as Harden fits the Nets needs and is obviously the better player.

So can we all just settle down and agree this is a bad thread and I think everyone is arguing different points.

[Lunartic]

Yeah I'd rather take a chance on what we have than Harden and his iso-ball.

Yeah that damn iso-ball that led a #1 or 2 offense for 3 straight seasons. This despite the GOAT talent Warriors being at the top of their game lol.

Waiting for the rebuttal that the Rockets couldn't beat the Warriors, a team with superior talent, in the conference finals. Therefore their Harden-centric strategy on offense in invalided.

Harden also really couldn't beat any really good teams, from 2012 to his departure he lost in the 1st round twice, in the 2nd round 3x times and made the WCF twice, once with Chris Paul. He had a ridiculously embarrassing loss to the Spurs which included a game 6 (?) loss without Kawhi and getting his gamewinner blocked by 72 year old Gino.

He's a very good player and special talent but his iso-poundball system may look great to stats geeks but in practice it isn't necessarily more effective in the playoffs than having multiple good players. Unless you think the Rockets (#1 offense) is better than 2018 GSWs?

[Bulls2021]

Both teams fans getting upset but both are right.

Harden is the best player in the trade by a long way, but I don’t think the Bulls would trade for him given roster, age, contract.

The Nets wouldn’t make the trade either as Harden fits the Nets needs and is obviously the better player.

So can we all just settle down and agree this is a bad thread and I think everyone is arguing different points.

This is the way. Harden is without question better than Lonzo and Vuc. As a fit, and considering his contract and age, Harden to the Bulls makes little sense. This trade makes the Bulls worse and exacerbates their issues (rebounding, size down low). Nets fans getting extremely worked by this thought for some reason.

[pr0wler]

Yeah I'd rather take a chance on what we have than Harden and his iso-ball.

Yeah that damn iso-ball that led a #1 or 2 offense for 3 straight seasons. This despite the GOAT talent Warriors being at the top of their game lol.

Waiting for the rebuttal that the Rockets couldn't beat the Warriors, a team with superior talent, in the conference finals. Therefore their Harden-centric strategy on offense in invalided.

Harden also really couldn't beat any really good teams, from 2012 to his departure he lost in the 1st round twice, in the 2nd round 3x times and made the WCF twice, once with Chris Paul. He had a ridiculously embarrassing loss to the Spurs which included a game 6 (?) loss without Kawhi and getting his gamewinner blocked by 72 year old Gino.

He's a very good player and special talent but his iso-poundball system may look great to stats geeks but in practice it isn't necessarily more effective in the playoffs than having multiple good players. Unless you think the Rockets (#1 offense) is better than 2018 GSWs?

Sure, that Game 6 performance against the Spurs was horrific, actually the worst game of his career. Though it was widely speculated he was playing through a concussion. At the end of the previous game, he got hit in the head by Gasol and looked really dazed and out of it. Then he goes to the line, misses 2 free throws badly. Two days later, coincidentally, he has the worst ever imaginable game possible. And given that he played through a hamstring injury last playoffs where he was literally unable to run, it is in line with his stubbornness suit up when maybe he shouldn't have.

Even 72 year old Manu was a G though. Even at age 37 or whatever, he threw down that viscous slam over 6'10'' long armed Chris Bosh in the 2014 finals lol.

The Rockets in 2012-2015 weren't really the same. They had a horrible coach, and the rosters were mediocre at best. Either way, in his tenure with the Rockets, Harden never lost to a team they were favoured against in the playoffs.

[poultryfan]

Both teams fans getting upset but both are right.

Harden is the best player in the trade by a long way, but I don’t think the Bulls would trade for him given roster, age, contract.

The Nets wouldn’t make the trade either as Harden fits the Nets needs and is obviously the better player.

So can we all just settle down and agree this is a bad thread and I think everyone is arguing different points.

What makes you think they're getting upset? Just look at all the LOLs and LMAOs! Sounds like to me they're having a gay old time.

[chitownsports4ever]

Harden isn’t playing like we are use too. He always chokes in the post season - however I would stay put if I was the Nets.

The Bulls chemistry is great and I wouldn’t make a move.

I think that’s the thing Harden fans are getting their panties in a bunch. No one is really saying Lonzo or Vooch are better than Harden. In terms of fit, harden doesn’t fit with the Bulls. We lose our best rebounder and one of the better 3&D PGs in the league. It’s about fit, take a look at the Lakers. Hard no from Chicago.

Talent is 10x more important than fit.

The same stupid arguments were made about Durant with the Warriors. LeBron with the Heat. LeBron and Davis.

They don't "fit together." Great players figure it out.

The problem with Westbrick isn't fit. He just sucks and isn't a winning basketball player. Hes never fit with anyone hes played with.

Lavine/Derozan/Harden would probably be the favorites in the East.

But harden us not those guys

At no point is he

LEBRON
DURANT

AD as we see isn't a franchise changing player hes a sidekick for Lebron who you cant trust to lead a team JUST LIKE HARDEN is at this point in his career for Durant right now . Why would the Bulls or ANY Team for that matter bring him in as the leader or designated "superstar " when they have the two of the top ten wing players in the world on their team right now.

You have the delusions of Harden grandeur that just doesn't exist in the real world.

[chitownsports4ever]

I'm actually laughing at this response. Literally. I wish I could record my laughter and play it for you, because the only thing of substance I could extract from this clearly unbiased rant is how laughably absurd it is. Again, literally.

That's a whole lot of words to make the simple statement that you're actually so deep in your team homerism that you would actually choose Lonzo freaking Ball over James Harden.

I need some people in here, you certainly included, to take a deep breath and say that out loud to themselves three times and let it marinate in the air for a bit.

You would actually take Lonzo Ball over James Harden.

People, Lonzo Ball is a solid, serviceable player. Full stop.

James Harden is a top 10 offensive player ever, a perennial MVP candidate and one of the most effective scorers in the history of the entire sport, capable of dropping 60-point triple doubles--something only he has done ever in the history of the sport.

After watching him fit perfectly with Durant and Irving, and earlier in his career, fit perfectly with Durant and Westbrook, you're really trying to use FIT as the reason you would take LONZO BALL over James Harden?!

The talent gap between these two players is so massive that it is absolutely asinine to even have a conversation about them. This isn't a person who's infatuated with statistical productivity; it is actually just pure common sense.

James Harden can be as effective a playmaker as he is a scorer, and he would only make life tremendously easier for any players he links up with.

But, why do I even need to go into the nuances of his game?

I can't get over the fact people are literally trying to debate LONZO BALL over James Harden.

Unbelievable the kind of comments that go unchecked on this forum.

Id take Lonzo Ball AND Vuc who is a top ten center over Harden all day....Why ?

BECAUSE I VALUE DEFENSE ,size and chemistry when I already have high level scoring

Does Harden play center ? because this isn't a straight up trade its given up all our size for duplication of things the Bulls already have which is scoring .

If im a GM would I place my eggs in the basket of 32 yr Harden as my franchises best player or 26 yr old Lavine ? Id choose Lavine at this stage without hesitation because at this point you are selling me pre bubble Harden and that guy simply doesn't exists anymore and when he did exist it was not balanced team which played both sides of the ball but in Dantonis three point chuck system.

The Bulls have bought in on both sides of the ball so why would they bring in a non defender who duplicates the offensive production they already have to be the "superstar" at this stage ? He works with Durant and Kyrie because its their team and je joined them but what you are doing is claiming bringing him in to be the Bulls "superstar" will make them better than what are rights now and there is zero evidence of that .

but it leads to an even better question why would the Nets want to break up their big three for two players who are supposedly not very good for one of the greatest players of all time and a true superstar ?

[Sebastian]

Bulls are currently already (probably) better than the Nets and have a shot at the 1 seed in the East. They make this trade and they remove so many of the things that have put them where they are. Losing Lonzo destroys their perimeter D, and losing Vuc leaves them with the weakest big man rotation in the East. All to take a chance on Harden, whose mere presence devalues Demar and Lavine, their two best players. In the end the Bulls get a better primary ball handler and tertiary scorer who doesn't fit with the team they've put together. That's it. It's not nearly enough.

The bulls are very good this season, but they would lose 4-1 in a 7 game series to the nets if everyone is healthy

I really doubt it. The Bulls are much better than the one team BK beat 4-1 last year (Brown-less Celts). Another way to look at it, last year's out of nowhere overachiever, the Hawks, took the eventual champs, the Bucks to 6 games. This year's Bulls are better than last year's Hawks, and this year's Nets aren't as good as last year's Bucks. On top of that Chicago simply matches up really well with Brooklyn. You could sell me on Milwaukee or even Philly having a shot at beating the Bulls in 5 bc they are matchup nightmares for them, but with the Nets it's likely going 7, especially if the Bulls have Williams back for the postseason. Literally the only thing the Bulls don't do well is rebound and deal with imposing size. Nets are not a good rebounding team and have no imposing size. It's probably a 60-40 matchup in favor of BK if they have Kyrie for the playoffs, and the other way around in favor of Chicago if he's not. In any case the East is a **** ton of fun with 5 teams that could legitimately make a Finals run, whereas with the West we already know it's one of two teams, barring injury.

[YamaChan]

I'm actually laughing at this response. Literally. I wish I could record my laughter and play it for you, because the only thing of substance I could extract from this clearly unbiased rant is how laughably absurd it is. Again, literally.

That's a whole lot of words to make the simple statement that you're actually so deep in your team homerism that you would actually choose Lonzo freaking Ball over James Harden.

I need some people in here, you certainly included, to take a deep breath and say that out loud to themselves three times and let it marinate in the air for a bit.

You would actually take Lonzo Ball over James Harden.

People, Lonzo Ball is a solid, serviceable player. Full stop.

James Harden is a top 10 offensive player ever, a perennial MVP candidate and one of the most effective scorers in the history of the entire sport, capable of dropping 60-point triple doubles--something only he has done ever in the history of the sport.

After watching him fit perfectly with Durant and Irving, and earlier in his career, fit perfectly with Durant and Westbrook, you're really trying to use FIT as the reason you would take LONZO BALL over James Harden?!

The talent gap between these two players is so massive that it is absolutely asinine to even have a conversation about them. This isn't a person who's infatuated with statistical productivity; it is actually just pure common sense.

James Harden can be as effective a playmaker as he is a scorer, and he would only make life tremendously easier for any players he links up with.

But, why do I even need to go into the nuances of his game?

I can't get over the fact people are literally trying to debate LONZO BALL over James Harden.

Unbelievable the kind of comments that go unchecked on this forum.

Id take Lonzo Ball AND Vuc who is a top ten center over Harden all day....Why ?

BECAUSE I VALUE DEFENSE ,size and chemistry when I already have high level scoring

Does Harden play center ? because this isn't a straight up trade its given up all our size for duplication of things the Bulls already have which is scoring .

If im a GM would I place my eggs in the basket of 32 yr Harden as my franchises best player or 26 yr old Lavine ? Id choose Lavine at this stage without hesitation because at this point you are selling me pre bubble Harden and that guy simply doesn't exists anymore and when he did exist it was not balanced team which played both sides of the ball but in Dantonis three point chuck system.

The Bulls have bought in on both sides of the ball so why would they bring in a non defender who duplicates the offensive production they already have to be the "superstar" at this stage ? He works with Durant and Kyrie because its their team and je joined them but what you are doing is claiming bringing him in to be the Bulls "superstar" will make them better than what are rights now and there is zero evidence of that .

but it leads to an even better question why would the Nets want to break up their big three for two players who are supposedly not very good for one of the greatest players of all time and a true superstar ?

I wonder how many other all-time great wings you would turn down to keep the services of Lonzo Ball. The way you Bulls homers are describing this scenario, you would think Lonzo Ball is Gary Payton.

Your argument fall flat on its face, because we're not talking about anything even close to an equivalent exchange. Lonzo is a good defender, but is he even a top 50 all-time defender? Not even close--that's what I'm sure we can all agree on.

Meanwhile Harden is one of the highest impact offensive weapons in the history of basketball, and contrary to popular belief, he's not even a net negative defender. He can be slow to rotate or close out at times, but he is a stout isolation defender, and I literally watched him guard Giannis on key possessions in the playoffs, bad hamstring and all.

Lonzo Ball and Vucevic are nice players, but to pretend their value in any way is comparable to the franchise altering power that is James Harden is absolutely ludicrous. They are C-level players at best, while Harden is at the top of the A-tier, with the other faces of the league.

Before his hamstring gave out, less than a year ago, I saw many, many people here (most of them Durant haters) claiming Harden was the best player on the Nets and arguably the best player in the NBA.

And he's being compared to, for lack of a better or more desirable term, relative scrub players. Because compared to a talent like Harden, that's who Lonzo Ball or Vucevic are--total scrubs.

James Harden is one of the most gifted ballers ever, and I thought this before he ever joined the Nets. None of you would make good GMs. When the talent discrepancy is this massive, you figure out the fit afterwards and find a way to make it work, especially when it's a transcendental talent like James Harden, one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the sport.

Comparing him to Westbrook (this lesser version of Westbrook at that) is a huge insult to his game. There is a reason KD didn't want to play with Westbrook any longer but was all in on playing with James Harden. James Harden can be the greatest scorer in the league one night and the best playmaker another night, and when he's really in his bag, he can be both.

You can count on one hand the amount of players in the league who can give that to you on a nightly basis, and if we look at production alone, nobody in history has combined playmaking and shotmaking at the level of James Harden. Literally nobody.

And you're...arguing about fit in a discussion involving him and Lonzo Ball.

People. Please. This is embarrassing. I'm not saying this as a Harden fan, because I never have been, even though I respect the historic career he's carved out for himself. I say this as a basketball fan and junkie.

This **** doesn't make any sense.

[Bulls2021]

I'm actually laughing at this response. Literally. I wish I could record my laughter and play it for you, because the only thing of substance I could extract from this clearly unbiased rant is how laughably absurd it is. Again, literally.

That's a whole lot of words to make the simple statement that you're actually so deep in your team homerism that you would actually choose Lonzo freaking Ball over James Harden.

I need some people in here, you certainly included, to take a deep breath and say that out loud to themselves three times and let it marinate in the air for a bit.

You would actually take Lonzo Ball over James Harden.

People, Lonzo Ball is a solid, serviceable player. Full stop.

James Harden is a top 10 offensive player ever, a perennial MVP candidate and one of the most effective scorers in the history of the entire sport, capable of dropping 60-point triple doubles--something only he has done ever in the history of the sport.

After watching him fit perfectly with Durant and Irving, and earlier in his career, fit perfectly with Durant and Westbrook, you're really trying to use FIT as the reason you would take LONZO BALL over James Harden?!

The talent gap between these two players is so massive that it is absolutely asinine to even have a conversation about them. This isn't a person who's infatuated with statistical productivity; it is actually just pure common sense.

James Harden can be as effective a playmaker as he is a scorer, and he would only make life tremendously easier for any players he links up with.

But, why do I even need to go into the nuances of his game?

I can't get over the fact people are literally trying to debate LONZO BALL over James Harden.

Unbelievable the kind of comments that go unchecked on this forum.

Id take Lonzo Ball AND Vuc who is a top ten center over Harden all day....Why ?

BECAUSE I VALUE DEFENSE ,size and chemistry when I already have high level scoring

Does Harden play center ? because this isn't a straight up trade its given up all our size for duplication of things the Bulls already have which is scoring .

If im a GM would I place my eggs in the basket of 32 yr Harden as my franchises best player or 26 yr old Lavine ? Id choose Lavine at this stage without hesitation because at this point you are selling me pre bubble Harden and that guy simply doesn't exists anymore and when he did exist it was not balanced team which played both sides of the ball but in Dantonis three point chuck system.

The Bulls have bought in on both sides of the ball so why would they bring in a non defender who duplicates the offensive production they already have to be the "superstar" at this stage ? He works with Durant and Kyrie because its their team and je joined them but what you are doing is claiming bringing him in to be the Bulls "superstar" will make them better than what are rights now and there is zero evidence of that .

but it leads to an even better question why would the Nets want to break up their big three for two players who are supposedly not very good for one of the greatest players of all time and a true superstar ?

I wonder how many other all-time great wings you would turn down to keep the services of Lonzo Ball. The way you Bulls homers are describing this scenario, you would think Lonzo Ball is Gary Payton.

Your argument fall flat on its face, because we're not talking about anything even close to an equivalent exchange. Lonzo is a good defender, but is he even a top 50 all-time defender? Not even close--that's what I'm sure we can all agree on.

Meanwhile Harden is one of the highest impact offensive weapons in the history of basketball, and contrary to popular belief, he's not even a net negative defender. He can be slow to rotate or close out at times, but he is a stout isolation defender, and I literally watched him guard Giannis on key possessions in the playoffs, bad hamstring and all.

Lonzo Ball and Vucevic are nice players, but to pretend their value in any way is comparable to the franchise altering power that is James Harden is absolutely ludicrous. They are C-level players at best, while Harden is at the top of the A-tier, with the other faces of the league.

Before his hamstring gave out, less than a year ago, I saw many, many people here (most of them Durant haters) claiming Harden was the best player on the Nets and arguably the best player in the NBA.

And he's being compared to, for lack of a better or more desirable term, relative scrub players. Because compared to a talent like Harden, that's who Lonzo Ball or Vucevic are--total scrubs.

James Harden is one of the most gifted ballers ever, and I thought this before he ever joined the Nets. None of you would make good GMs. When the talent discrepancy is this massive, you figure out the fit afterwards and find a way to make it work, especially when it's a transcendental talent like James Harden, one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the sport.

Comparing him to Westbrook (this lesser version of Westbrook at that) is a huge insult to his game. There is a reason KD didn't want to play with Westbrook any longer but was all in on playing with James Harden. James Harden can be the greatest scorer in the league one night and the best playmaker another night, and when he's really in his bag, he can be both.

You can count on one hand the amount of players in the league who can give that to you on a nightly basis, and if we look at production alone, nobody in history has combined playmaking and shotmaking at the level of James Harden. Literally nobody.

And you're...arguing about fit in a discussion involving him and Lonzo Ball.

People. Please. This is embarrassing. I'm not saying this as a Harden fan, because I never have been, even though I respect the historic career he's carved out for himself. I say this as a basketball fan and junkie.

This **** doesn't make any sense.

"History". We're talking about now. Fat old injury prone Harden isn't what he used to be. Don't trust the guy to stay healthy given his poor conditioning tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a hammy again come the playoffs. He's also a free agent in one season. It's pretty wild that you think fit doesn't matter on a team. Losing Lonzo and Vuc for a SG (which they have 2 allstars that are SG/SF) is just moronic. Create 2 massive holes and completely destroy the balance of your team. Good idea.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Bulls are currently already (probably) better than the Nets and have a shot at the 1 seed in the East. They make this trade and they remove so many of the things that have put them where they are. Losing Lonzo destroys their perimeter D, and losing Vuc leaves them with the weakest big man rotation in the East. All to take a chance on Harden, whose mere presence devalues Demar and Lavine, their two best players. In the end the Bulls get a better primary ball handler and tertiary scorer who doesn't fit with the team they've put together. That's it. It's not nearly enough.

The bulls are very good this season, but they would lose 4-1 in a 7 game series to the nets if everyone is healthy

I really doubt it. The Bulls are much better than the one team BK beat 4-1 last year (Brown-less Celts). Another way to look at it, last year's out of nowhere overachiever, the Hawks, took the eventual champs, the Bucks to 6 games. This year's Bulls are better than last year's Hawks, and this year's Nets aren't as good as last year's Bucks. On top of that Chicago simply matches up really well with Brooklyn. You could sell me on Milwaukee or even Philly having a shot at beating the Bulls in 5 bc they are matchup nightmares for them, but with the Nets it's likely going 7, especially if the Bulls have Williams back for the postseason. Literally the only thing the Bulls don't do well is rebound and deal with imposing size. Nets are not a good rebounding team and have no imposing size. It's probably a 60-40 matchup in favor of BK if they have Kyrie for the playoffs, and the other way around in favor of Chicago if he's not. In any case the East is a **** ton of fun with 5 teams that could legitimately make a Finals run, whereas with the West we already know it's one of two teams, barring injury.

Perhaps you are right, time will tell. I just think people are under-estimating how good a fully healthy Nets team can be- we didn't see it in last season's playoffs, but we've seen glimpses in the regular season. They are so good offensively, that it wouldn't shock me to see them score 130-150 points.

In terms of the west, I'm not sold on the notion that it will be GSW or PHX. They are both very good, but are not unbeatable juggernauts. I think Utah could beat them, Denver with Murray would give them trouble. As a Clipper fan, it is a pipe dream- but if PG13 recovers and Kawhi makes his way back this season, they could win too. I don't want to say it as a Clipper fan, but if the Lakers somehow jell, then they can be a force to be reckoned with too.

[chitownsports4ever]

I wonder how many other all-time great wings you would turn down to keep the services of Lonzo Ball. The way you Bulls homers are describing this scenario, you would think Lonzo Ball is Gary Payton.

Your argument fall flat on its face, because we're not talking about anything even close to an equivalent exchange. Lonzo is a good defender, but is he even a top 50 all-time defender? Not even close--that's what I'm sure we can all agree on.

Meanwhile Harden is one of the highest impact offensive weapons in the history of basketball, and contrary to popular belief, he's not even a net negative defender. He can be slow to rotate or close out at times, but he is a stout isolation defender, and I literally watched him guard Giannis on key possessions in the playoffs, bad hamstring and all.

Lonzo Ball and Vucevic are nice players, but to pretend their value in any way is comparable to the franchise altering power that is James Harden is absolutely ludicrous. They are C-level players at best, while Harden is at the top of the A-tier, with the other faces of the league.

Before his hamstring gave out, less than a year ago, I saw many, many people here (most of them Durant haters) claiming Harden was the best player on the Nets and arguably the best player in the NBA.

And he's being compared to, for lack of a better or more desirable term, relative scrub players. Because compared to a talent like Harden, that's who Lonzo Ball or Vucevic are--total scrubs.

James Harden is one of the most gifted ballers ever, and I thought this before he ever joined the Nets. None of you would make good GMs. When the talent discrepancy is this massive, you figure out the fit afterwards and find a way to make it work, especially when it's a transcendental talent like James Harden, one of the greatest offensive players in the history of the sport.

Comparing him to Westbrook (this lesser version of Westbrook at that) is a huge insult to his game. There is a reason KD didn't want to play with Westbrook any longer but was all in on playing with James Harden. James Harden can be the greatest scorer in the league one night and the best playmaker another night, and when he's really in his bag, he can be both.

You can count on one hand the amount of players in the league who can give that to you on a nightly basis, and if we look at production alone, nobody in history has combined playmaking and shotmaking at the level of James Harden. Literally nobody.

And you're...arguing about fit in a discussion involving him and Lonzo Ball.

People. Please. This is embarrassing. I'm not saying this as a Harden fan, because I never have been, even though I respect the historic career he's carved out for himself. I say this as a basketball fan and junkie.

This **** doesn't make any sense.

of course it doesn't make sense to you when you keep creating arguments with yourself about a team you obviously dont follow .


Im a Bulls homer because I dont want to give up an all star center and a starting 25 yr old PG for James harden ? When I have 2 wing players playing as well as ANYBODY IN THE LEAGUE right now with great team chemistry and a solid team commitment to both sides of the ball ?

The only thing that doesn't make sense are your claims of Harden being on the same level as Lebron or Durant. You obviously are a Harden fan and I dont care because the trade makes no sense for the Bulls .

Lavine is coming up on free agency and your idea is to trade Ball who he helped recruit and Vuc who helped recruit Demar and was college teammates to bring in Harden to be the "superstar" well Lavine will more likely walk and then what do the Bulls have ?

But the worst part is that Harden is gonna be a free agent too now the Bulls' are forced to resign him at 50 million per year ? ROFLMAO the only thing that doesn't make sense is that you guys really think fantasy basketball is real life

I get you like Harden and dont know a thing about the Bulls but stop trying to sell Bulls fans on this garbage trade that as soon as the deal would be made the entire nba world would say was one of the worst deals ever made for the BULLS while the Nets made out like bandits .

[DroseReturnChi]

man discussing hardens name is along with these scrubs i wouldnt trade for 100 vucevic. i nominate worst thread of all time.

[DroseReturnChi]

Both teams fans getting upset but both are right.

Harden is the best player in the trade by a long way, but I don’t think the Bulls would trade for him given roster, age, contract.

The Nets wouldn’t make the trade either as Harden fits the Nets needs and is obviously the better player.

So can we all just settle down and agree this is a bad thread and I think everyone is arguing different points.

your literally saying no to something like smart, timelord, picks to all time great. how many celtics fans say no?

[DroseReturnChi]

Harden isn’t playing like we are use too. He always chokes in the post season - however I would stay put if I was the Nets.

The Bulls chemistry is great and I wouldn’t make a move.

I think that’s the thing Harden fans are getting their panties in a bunch. No one is really saying Lonzo or Vooch are better than Harden. In terms of fit, harden doesn’t fit with the Bulls. We lose our best rebounder and one of the better 3&D PGs in the league. It’s about fit, take a look at the Lakers. Hard no from Chicago.

if your talking fit for harden, man you should not be a gm. you can replenish 3and D with vet mins.
fit matters but if you collect mvp candidates, you can have the worst fit and form a dynasty.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I think that’s the thing Harden fans are getting their panties in a bunch. No one is really saying Lonzo or Vooch are better than Harden. In terms of fit, harden doesn’t fit with the Bulls. We lose our best rebounder and one of the better 3&D PGs in the league. It’s about fit, take a look at the Lakers. Hard no from Chicago.

Talent is 10x more important than fit.

The same stupid arguments were made about Durant with the Warriors. LeBron with the Heat. LeBron and Davis.

They don't "fit together." Great players figure it out.

The problem with Westbrick isn't fit. He just sucks and isn't a winning basketball player. Hes never fit with anyone hes played with.

Lavine/Derozan/Harden would probably be the favorites in the East.

But harden us not those guys

At no point is he

LEBRON
DURANT

AD as we see isn't a franchise changing player hes a sidekick for Lebron who you cant trust to lead a team JUST LIKE HARDEN is at this point in his career for Durant right now . Why would the Bulls or ANY Team for that matter bring him in as the leader or designated "superstar " when they have the two of the top ten wing players in the world on their team right now.

You have the delusions of Harden grandeur that just doesn't exist in the real world.

You don't have to be LeBron or Durant to be a Superstar player.

Harden is probably best suited to be a #2.

But he gets you a hell of a lot closer than Lavine or Derozan would. Neither of who are on his level.

Saying hes not a top 10 wing player based on a 30 game sample is again just stupid. We know what Harden did last year before getting hurt.

And the cost is a role player and a fringe all star center. Give me a break.

The only one with delusions is you thinking anyone on the Bulls is even close to being a top 10 player. Anyone would trade for one of those guys if possible.