Brooklyn got bamboozled by James Harden

[LoneyROY]

I was against the Harden trade the whole time and said it was a stupid move. I don't know why youre poking fun at me about it.

Harden is not in peak condition btw. Hes way better than he was with the Nets. But not close to the guy he was in 2018.

Still hes 100x better than Ben Simmons.

As far as it being the best decision, not sure I agree. Embiid is no KD. Harden will have to be the guy in the final minutes of a playoff series. And we know he fails spectacularly at that.

But hey if he wants to prove he can finally do it then all the power to him. I'm not convinced.

I didn't mean his literal physical peak. 17-18 Harden was in a special tiers of players that won't likely be replicated.

But he's in 19-20 form. His first step looks as good as it has since The Bubble.

KD and Kyrie can't mess with Harden at this level and Embiid on the level he's now on. Kyrie's just not that guy.

Yeah I don't agree.

Harden still doesn't have the burst he had last year. Look at him in the Celtics series. Still not back yet.

Relying a ton on his stepbacks so far. Which he wasn't doing for a while.

Harden is still a career choker and Kyrie had one of the most clutch Finals performances ever.

So not sure what "level" youre talking about exactly. We know who he is when it matters most. His resume is terrible in big moments.

And Embiid hasn't been much better. After doing little/nothing vs the Hawks in critical moments.

Could have had KD to save him. Now its all on him.

Agree to disagree.

It's not ALL on him, he has one of the best players in the league next to him in Embiid. But yes, he will get WAY more credit if he gets it done in Philly.

That's the whole point. He bet on himself.

[Hello Brooklyn]

So you admit that the pre-Harden trade was the better team and it’s just that they can’t afford it right?

The pre-Harden team was hovering around .500 and didn't fit well together at all.

Youre acting like we never saw it.

We did. It was nothing special.

Although I think it could have been better than their record says. I don't think its as good as what the fully healthy current version of the Nets could be.

KD-Simmons-Kyrie will be lethal if it ever happens. Especially with Curry and Harris to provide spacing.

then why not compared talent vs talent in your previous reply and you pointed out “can’t afford it”? Because it sounded like “yes, the pre-harden trade team was better but we can’t afford it”

That was just one of the points I made. The Levert/Dinwiddie/Allen thing would have lasted one season.

In that season Dinwiddie got injured for the whole year. So essentially that team could have never existed.

Even then I'd rather have Simmons/Curry/Drummond than those 2 and an injured Dinwiddie.

[Lou84]

So wait, you don't think

Irving
Seth
KD
Simmons
LMA

Is better than

Irving
Levert
Harris
KD
Allen

I think what they have now is better than the team you listed. They still have Harris, Leverts been traded since then and Allen is legit, but you still go after Simmons for Allen if that's what it comes down too

I’d rather have..

Irving
Harris
LeVert
KD
Allen

6th man: Dinwiddie

I dont think they have a better team now. But I think it would be stupid for them not to trade for Harden.

Ben’s value is his PG skills. Take away his PG skills and you’d end up having a multi positional defensive player, transition player who stays at the dunker spot on halfcourt. And I’d take a 16-11 center in Allen over him, specially with a Nets squad who can max our Allen’s talent over Ben’s talent.

How exactly were the Nets supposed to afford Levert, Allen, and Dinwiddie?

That wasn't in the cards.

Not to mention Levert would be a horrible fit in that lineup. He can't shoot, play off ball or play defense. And is constantly injured.

Theres a reason the Cavs have not been better since trading for him. And may be worse.

Curry is far better than Levert especially considering his contract.

Simmons is just a far better play than Allen defensively by being way more versatile. I don't see how hes a better fit with KDKyrie when Simmons can guard 1-5. And brings more on offense in terms of play making.

Hey, just wanted to give my two Cents concerning what you wrote about Ben's defense. Ben can defend 1-4 at elite level but in no way shape or form you want him to defend the 5 against a competent center. Ben plays soft and has no blocking ability. He "can" do it but it means wasting his only true elite skill that he has and that is defense against smaller or similar sized players. Just wanted to clarify it because I read that "1-5 defense" several times in this thread. Carry on!


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[Lalouie]

i mean,,,it's the nets after all.
not everyone's favorite team to like.

i'd like to see both entitled big city teams fail

there's not a whole lot to root for.

only milwaukee. likeable team with likeable players. maybe cavs, just to show lebron up.

anyway getting back to the bamboozling...it's laughable

[Asianiac_24]

Brooklyn is getting bamboozled by Ben Simmons. Dude has been dogging it and skipping work the whole year and he’s still not playing, while Brooklyn is paying him millions to keep this baby happy

[76ciology]

Brooklyn is getting bamboozled by Ben Simmons. Dude has been dogging it and skipping work the whole year and he’s still not playing, while Brooklyn is paying him millions to keep this baby happy

At some point he’s gonna ask out because he wants to get paid to fund his lifestyle. Nets is too smart not to give him more than $18M per year.

For ben, it’s lifestyle > winning.

[JN61]

Simmons gotta be the most overrated ''star'' of last decade. Maybe this millenium. Anyone half decent can do the job he did and with Harden they are just miles better.

This guy really was an all-star last season with 16 ppg, 7.6 ast and 7.9 rebounds... And post all-star cratered to 12 ppg, 6 ast and 6.4 trb...

[ProcessDoctor]

Washed.

[kuclas]

I’d take 1.5 years of elite top 5-10
Nba player in harden who than begans to fall off the cliff. As long as sixers make as least one trip to nba finals.

Than stay with Simmons for the next 4 seasons and continue losing in the 2nd round. Even with Simmons performing at his usual top 25 nba REGULAR SEASON level.

It’s just the opportunity to compete

I know a lot can change. Embiid is a ticking time bomb in terms of injury. Maybe this season version of embiid (embiid handling the ball much more even walking it up the floor and initiating the offense at various time) and no improvement from simmons may have worked. But Simmons never gave that the chance.

I wish Simmons the best. I hope he develops even a 10 foot shot. I have always stated if he can get a small jumper. I’m not even talking about a 3 point shot. A small jumper. Sometime. An ugly jump hook hook robin Lopez even developed that goes in. Something. Cause Simmons is tall. It would make him a top 5 nba player. There is still time for him. But it may not ever be in his DNA to even try in a real game. That’s what nba regular games are for. To try different things. No One would care if he went 1-10 doing those things. He’s an unselfish player. We get that. But you got to be selfish and have room for improvement if you ever want to take the next level.

Brad Stevens immediately saw something in the 2018 nba playoffs with Simmons lack of agression in the half court (this after Simmons was on a tear during the 16 game winning streak to close out the season) Stevens saw it. And that became the
Blueprint to beat the sixers in playoffs.

[michaelm]

I’d take 1.5 years of elite top 5-10
Nba player in harden who than begans to fall off the cliff. As long as sixers make as least one trip to nba finals.

Than stay with Simmons for the next 4 seasons and continue losing in the 2nd round. Even with Simmons performing at his usual top 25 nba REGULAR SEASON level.

It’s just the opportunity to compete

I know a lot can change. Embiid is a ticking time bomb in terms of injury. Maybe this season version of embiid (embiid handling the ball much more even walking it up the floor and initiating the offense at various time) and no improvement from simmons may have worked. But Simmons never gave that the chance.

I wish Simmons the best. I hope he develops even a 10 foot shot. I have always stated if he can get a small jumper. I’m not even talking about a 3 point shot. A small jumper. Sometime. An ugly jump hook hook robin Lopez even developed that goes in. Something. Cause Simmons is tall. It would make him a top 5 nba player. There is still time for him. But it may not ever be in his DNA to even try in a real game. That’s what nba regular games are for. To try different things. No One would care if he went 1-10 doing those things. He’s an unselfish player. We get that. But you got to be selfish and have room for improvement if you ever want to take the next level.

Brad Stevens immediately saw something in the 2018 nba playoffs with Simmons lack of agression in the half court (this after Simmons was on a tear during the 16 game winning streak to close out the season) Stevens saw it. And that became the
Blueprint to beat the sixers in playoffs.

However bad Simmons might be, don't pretend there was ever any future for him at the Sixers after the last off-season or that they really wanted him to play for them this year. Morey was always going to acquire Harden one way or another, and rightly so, but just couldn't get it done until now.

[USWAY]

Brooklyn is getting bamboozled by Ben Simmons. Dude has been dogging it and skipping work the whole year and he’s still not playing, while Brooklyn is paying him millions to keep this baby happy

Exactly. I don't want it to be lost that the OVERWHELMING narrative was that the Nets easily won this trade. I think slowly but surely people will realize how strange it was that a 25-year old all-star who had one of the most embarrassing playoff series in recent memory chose to run away and hold out from playing, instead of it driving him to work on his game and get better.

Some people allowed him to get away with that behavior because Doc honestly answered a question about being unsure Ben could be the PG on a championship team because of his inability to play in the half court (which 99% of people believed he couldn't) or Embiid calling Ben passing up a wide open dunk a turning point (which it obviously was). But at the end of the day something's really alarming with the path Ben chose to take. Even Klutch and Rich Paul couldn't get Philly to trade him before they got the superstar they wanted because it was so weird. They had zero leverage.

[Sixerscan]

I’d take 1.5 years of elite top 5-10
Nba player in harden who than begans to fall off the cliff. As long as sixers make as least one trip to nba finals.

Than stay with Simmons for the next 4 seasons and continue losing in the 2nd round. Even with Simmons performing at his usual top 25 nba REGULAR SEASON level.

It’s just the opportunity to compete

I know a lot can change. Embiid is a ticking time bomb in terms of injury. Maybe this season version of embiid (embiid handling the ball much more even walking it up the floor and initiating the offense at various time) and no improvement from simmons may have worked. But Simmons never gave that the chance.

I wish Simmons the best. I hope he develops even a 10 foot shot. I have always stated if he can get a small jumper. I’m not even talking about a 3 point shot. A small jumper. Sometime. An ugly jump hook hook robin Lopez even developed that goes in. Something. Cause Simmons is tall. It would make him a top 5 nba player. There is still time for him. But it may not ever be in his DNA to even try in a real game. That’s what nba regular games are for. To try different things. No One would care if he went 1-10 doing those things. He’s an unselfish player. We get that. But you got to be selfish and have room for improvement if you ever want to take the next level.

Brad Stevens immediately saw something in the 2018 nba playoffs with Simmons lack of agression in the half court (this after Simmons was on a tear during the 16 game winning streak to close out the season) Stevens saw it. And that became the
Blueprint to beat the sixers in playoffs.

However bad Simmons might be, don't pretend there was ever any future for him at the Sixers after the last off-season or that they really wanted him to play for them this year. Morey was always going to acquire Harden one way or another, and rightly so, but just couldn't get it done until now.

You're probably right, though you are removing Ben's agency from all this. Part of the reason why they were willing to trade him for an older and more expensive player is that it became clear that his prideful defiance about the need to profoundly fix the shooting stuff limited him from being the caliber of player that the team wouldn't trade, and that it likely wasn't going to change as long as he was with the organization. It also played a role in him doing the whole demand a trade and hold out thing. It's all related.

[TheLand13]

What are you talking about?

Seth Curry has been the #1 scoring option for the Nets and is still shooting 47% from 3.

Hes definitely one of the best shooters. Contested or not.

Ok, best we take your word for it in a small sample size. You immediately fall in love with anyone that puts on a Brooklyn uniform. Seth is not in the tier of Steph, Durant, or Lillard. It's not a debate.

I've fallen love with anyone whos put on a Nets uniform? Are you insane?

Buddy, you literally do it all the time.

[michaelm]

Brooklyn is getting bamboozled by Ben Simmons. Dude has been dogging it and skipping work the whole year and he’s still not playing, while Brooklyn is paying him millions to keep this baby happy

Exactly. I don't want it to be lost that the OVERWHELMING narrative was that the Nets easily won this trade. I think slowly but surely people will realize how strange it was that a 25-year old all-star who had one of the most embarrassing playoff series in recent memory chose to run away and hold out from playing, instead of it driving him to work on his game and get better.

Some people allowed him to get away with that behavior because Doc honestly answered a question about being unsure Ben could be the PG ion a championship team because of his inability to play in the half court (which 99% of people believed he couldn't) or Embiid calling Ben passing up a wide open dunk a turning point (which it obviously was). But at the end of the day something's really alarming with the path Ben chose to take. Even Klutch and Rich Paul couldn't get Philly to trade him before they got the superstar they wanted because it was so weird. They had zero leverage.

Klutch are a malign force in the NBA imo and both they and Simmons greatly over-rated his stature as an NBA player and his worth as a trade piece; he is obviously nowhere near being as good as Kawhi Leonard, Harden himself or AD (health issues aside) who pretty much any team would want on their roster immediately regardless of baggage.. Maybe he just can't shoot and never will be able to shoot but his failure to even accept professional shooting coaching during his tenure at the Sixers is totally indefensible and pretty close to bizarre imo, and I don't know how the Sixers allowed him to get away with it.

I don't however believe there was ever any future for him at the Sixers after that play-off series and the following off season, and that much of the stuff from the Sixers this season has been posturing; Morey was always going to trade him, preferably for Harden, and this applied from when he got the job at the Sixers and not just since the most recent previous play-offs. I don't believe there was ever any question of him regaining favour at the Sixers by working on his game in the last off-season, notwithstanding that he should have done so years ago, or that Embiid and most other players wanted him back playing on the team.

Credit to Morey for holding out for and getting the best outcome for the Sixers, and I am on board with making a stand against Klutch, but I believe his intention to trade Simmons preceded any machinations by Klutch in this particular instance.

[the_process]

He clearly quit on Nets

Can you blame him? Wasn’t his first choice of team and one of the other stars on the roster is a part timer.

He wants to win now, KD and Kyrie have already won.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Ok, best we take your word for it in a small sample size. You immediately fall in love with anyone that puts on a Brooklyn uniform. Seth is not in the tier of Steph, Durant, or Lillard. It's not a debate.

I've fallen love with anyone whos put on a Nets uniform? Are you insane?

Buddy, you literally do it all the time.

Yeah youre right. Thats why I've been **** on Ben Simmons and Kyrie constantly. Not to mention Nash.

Meanwhile you act like Jarrett Allen is the next Hakeem Olajuwan cause he made the 2x replacement all star team.

[Hello Brooklyn]

He clearly quit on Nets

Can you blame him? Wasn’t his first choice of team and one of the other stars on the roster is a part timer.

He wants to win now, KD and Kyrie have already won.

Harden is a liar. Nets were his first choice.

Shelbourne, Woj, Lowe have reported several times he demanded to go to the Nets from the start.

He had Kevin Durant on the verge of coming back with the Nets.

We'll see how it works out for him. I'd rather have KD than Embiid if I want to win a title. The two of them were #1 in the East till KD got hurt.

And Embiid has never once made it through a playoff run healthy.

[the_process]

He clearly quit on Nets

Can you blame him? Wasn’t his first choice of team and one of the other stars on the roster is a part timer.

He wants to win now, KD and Kyrie have already won.

Harden is a liar. Nets were his first choice.

Shelbourne, Woj, Lowe have reported several times he demanded to go to the Nets from the start.

He had Kevin Durant on the verge of coming back with the Nets.

We'll see how it works out for him. I'd rather have KD than Embiid if I want to win a title. The two of them were #1 in the East till KD got hurt.

And Embiid has never once made it through a playoff run healthy.

Can’t wait to beat you guys in the playoffs. Do you think Ben has already demanded another trade, or is waiting for the off-season?

[rockmanslim]

Some revisionist history going on in here.

As a GM, you have a chance to trade for Harden to form a big 3, you take your chances and do it every time, or you aren't doing your job. If not for injuries, Nets win the title last year.

[Tacoma]

He clearly quit on Nets

Can you blame him? Wasn’t his first choice of team and one of the other stars on the roster is a part timer.

He wants to win now, KD and Kyrie have already won.

It was his choice to sign a contract that will pay him over $44M this year to play, not to quit. HOU & BKN didn't want to trade him, he quit on them forcing a trade. He wants to win but does not have the work ethic, partying and coming to camp out of shape.

To answer your question, can you blame him? Yes, absolutely, no doubt whatsoever.