[SHAMS] De'Aaron Fox traded to Spurs, Zach Lavine to Kings

[jmnvcavs]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

[Bornstellar]

Read on Twitter

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Spurs were reported to be enamored with Amen, so they would have ended up with him and not Scoot. Obviously he is not Victor but Amen is looking like he might be a legit star player. Just saying.

[G R E Y]

Read on Twitter

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

As I said above, it's positioning a team for certain drafts that is also important. We know we got lucky with lotto balls bouncing our way but we also targeted that draft to give ourselves the best chance - 14%.

Look there are many ways to get better as Houston or a better run Cavs, for instance, are showing.

The main point is that it has been a long slow grind. But each step was well prepared for.

[The Master]

As I said above, it's positioning a team for certain drafts that is also important. We know we got lucky with lotto balls bouncing our way but we also targeted that draft to give ourselves the best chance - 14%.

Look there are many ways to get better as Houston or a better run Cavs, for instance, are showing.

The main point is that it has been a long slow grind. But each step was well prepared for.

Again, I'm not denying that Spurs made several fantastic little moves (Poeltl, Barnes trade, Bullock trade, Wolves trade, CP3 deal) - I'm just saying that seeing Spurs' fans bragging about how quickly they rebuilt vs other teams and so on, is annoying considering that by far the most important part of this rebuilding was a historical luck. Hornets had like a percent less to get Wemby, that's the margin of error and unlikeliness of this whole situation.

If someone says that so far Spurs have been great in exploiting this historical luck, then yeah, I agree.

[Pointgod]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

[sackings916]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

Why would you actually believe that? Vlade is no longer the GM.

[Pointgod]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

Why would you actually believe that? Vlade is no longer the GM.

Because there’s no rationale to take the Hornets pick when the Spurs had other picks they could have traded.

[Capn'O]

I don't know what it is but I'm actually not that enamoured with Sengun. We did work him out predraft as I recall. I just don't think not drafting him was some great loss. And all roads lead to Wemby so if Sengun led to more wins at the wrong time, I'd much rather be in this position.

This is an outcomes way of looking at it but I'm talking process. The Spurs were never guaranteed a Wemby outcome, even if they had been the worst team. In fact, Detroit, the worst team, ended up with the 5th pick and Ausar Thompson.

The guy is putting up nearly a 20/10 double double on the second seed in the west in his 4th year. He's somewhere between a Vuc and a Gasol. But more to the point, as a prospect he was a pretty obvious hit. His post skills were just quite advanced for his age. Spurs seemed like an obvious landing spot with all their history with bigs. And if he made you "win too much" he had immediate resale value.

He'd have helped a lot vs Primo and I don't think the Spurs were looking to actively sandbag their pick in hopes of getting Wemby. That's straight revisionist talk.

[The Master]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

Naah, be for real.

Kings didn't have a leverage in these negotiations: Fox was on the move and the longer they waited, the lower his trade value would've been. For me, it's surprising that they didn't get Kings '31 swap back and CP3 in exchange, these are assets that should've been easily negotiable: CP3 will be a back-up with Fox (and would've been very helpful to Kings who don't have a playable PG now), they gave swap '31 with Barnes, so it's not like Spurs should be able to hardball in negotiations that much and veto to include these assets, come on.

Now, Kings don't have a point guard and they literally gave Spurs in span of few months Barnes, Fox and swap for two first rounders, this is kind of insane. And LaVine on 140/3 from the Bulls, obviously.

[Jadoogar]

Lonzo was also really important to what they were doing and he turned to dust.

they don't have a lonzo ball in sacramento either. They are relying mainly on Demar/Lavine/Monk for backcourt creation. Sabonis is a better version of Vuc bt with similar weaknesses. I don't think the Kings got any better.

Even if you don't think they got better, those three picks offer more flexibility for moves.

2 frps. The charlotte pick isn't going to convey. I think it's fine value but I think they should have focused more on picks than getting Lavine.

[sackings916]

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

Why would you actually believe that? Vlade is no longer the GM.

Because there’s no rationale to take the Hornets pick when the Spurs had other picks they could have traded.

I mean they definitely got a more quantity based pick package over quality. But I think their leverage was limited. That unprotected Minnesota pick in 31 has a chance to be a high end pick.

[G R E Y]

As I said above, it's positioning a team for certain drafts that is also important. We know we got lucky with lotto balls bouncing our way but we also targeted that draft to give ourselves the best chance - 14%.

Look there are many ways to get better as Houston or a better run Cavs, for instance, are showing.

The main point is that it has been a long slow grind. But each step was well prepared for.

Again, I'm not denying that Spurs made several fantastic little moves (Poeltl, Barnes trade, Bullock trade, Wolves trade, CP3 deal) - I'm just saying that seeing Spurs' fans bragging about how quickly they rebuilt vs other teams and so on, is annoying considering that by far the most important part of this rebuilding was a historical luck. Hornets had like a percent less to get Wemby, that's the margin of error and unlikeliness of this whole situation.

If someone says that so far Spurs have been great in exploiting this historical luck, then yeah, I agree.

It's not bragging. It's relief! And there is a reason why some teams stay in perpetual bottom to tread mill mode. It's because of how they're run. And there we can flex a bit because frankly we are a very well run organization for a very long time. We keep getting poached of our staff, each of whom also goes through no skipping steps learning.

Cavs had James for what, 8 years? How was he built around? New GM, coach, better team building approach, look where they are. Houston made changes and stopped over catering to Harden, replaced the GM / star tandem, rebuilt, look where they are.

Mavs just moved on from Luka **** Doncic! We'll see how they recover...

It's not a given that having a superstar will result in top tier long term sustained success. You have to have the right culture and approach. So Wemby landing on the Hornets or Wizards is, no offense, not the same thing as Wemby landing on the Spurs. There's a reason he wanted us, and it's not just because Parker is French.

[Silver Man]

Not even getting the Hawks pick and the Charlotte pick going to be seconds is just the icing on the cake to this brutal trade.

I guess the good part is getting rid of Huerter's contract. Oh well, same story with the organization.

[hippesthippo]

BUT WHY DID THE SPURS TRADE THE ROB DILLINGHAM PICK?!?!

/s

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Spurs were reported to be enamored with Amen, so they would have ended up with him and not Scoot. Obviously he is not Victor but Amen is looking like he might be a legit star player. Just saying.

He looked good in January, but he is far from a star. SA would be on a road to nowhere with him as your top guy.

[tsherkin]

BUT WHY DID THE SPURS TRADE THE ROB DILLINGHAM PICK?!?!

/s

Nice, lol.

[G R E Y]

I don't know what it is but I'm actually not that enamoured with Sengun. We did work him out predraft as I recall. I just don't think not drafting him was some great loss. And all roads lead to Wemby so if Sengun led to more wins at the wrong time, I'd much rather be in this position.

This is an outcomes way of looking at it but I'm talking process. The Spurs were never guaranteed a Wemby outcome, even if they had been the worst team. In fact, Detroit, the worst team, ended up with the 5th pick and Ausar Thompson.

The guy is putting up nearly a 20/10 double double on the second seed in the west in his 4th year. He's somewhere between a Vuc and a Gasol. But more to the point, as a prospect he was a pretty obvious hit. His post skills were just quite advanced for his age. Spurs seemed like an obvious landing spot with all their history with bigs. And if he made you "win too much" he had immediate resale value.

He'd have helped a lot vs Primo and I don't think the Spurs were looking to actively sandbag their pick in hopes of getting Wemby. That's straight revisionist talk.

I understand I'm looking back and attributing success when it all could have gone a number of ways. I'm not saying we sandbagged that pick for Wemby either. I am saying we targeted the Wemby draft to bottom out and yes lucked out. We worked out Sengun and chose to pass. Maybe because of his D which hasn't been discussed, I don't know. But so did Warriors, Pacers, Thunder, who actually drafted him and traded him.

I'm saying Primo fit a lot of what we were after and we swung for the fences. He just happened to have hidden issues we didn't know about. Struck out.

And I don't disagree with all you're saying about Sengun. I personally just don't like him. I don't know why really. I'm not that enamoured. It is what it is. He is a nice piece with a unique game but he's not a game changer to any of the teams who had a chance to take him and passed.

[TheRaptor!]

As I said above, it's positioning a team for certain drafts that is also important. We know we got lucky with lotto balls bouncing our way but we also targeted that draft to give ourselves the best chance - 14%.

Look there are many ways to get better as Houston or a better run Cavs, for instance, are showing.

The main point is that it has been a long slow grind. But each step was well prepared for.

Again, I'm not denying that Spurs made several fantastic little moves (Poeltl, Barnes trade, Bullock trade, Wolves trade, CP3 deal) - I'm just saying that seeing Spurs' fans bragging about how quickly they rebuilt vs other teams and so on, is annoying considering that by far the most important part of this rebuilding was a historical luck. Hornets had like a percent less to get Wemby, that's the margin of error and unlikeliness of this whole situation.

If someone says that so far Spurs have been great in exploiting this historical luck, then yeah, I agree.

There was no luck, it was rigged. There was 0 chance the future face of the league was going to the Hornets

[G R E Y]

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Spurs were reported to be enamored with Amen, so they would have ended up with him and not Scoot. Obviously he is not Victor but Amen is looking like he might be a legit star player. Just saying.

He looked good in January, but he is far from a star. SA would be on a road to nowhere with him as your top guy.

Is Houston on the road to nowhere? Cavs? Thunder? Rebuilt Knicks? There is a reason why these teams are succeeding, even, gasp! without Wemby. And there's a reason why other teams with superstars never get to the highest level.

I would bet on our FO for rebuilds and sustained success.

[Bornstellar]

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Spurs were reported to be enamored with Amen, so they would have ended up with him and not Scoot. Obviously he is not Victor but Amen is looking like he might be a legit star player. Just saying.

He looked good in January, but he is far from a star. SA would be on a road to nowhere with him as your top guy.

Good thing we're just talking hypotheticals then and Victor is our top guy instead