Describing SGA as a foul merchant seems extremely disingenuous.

[Lo Wang]

Are Freethrows not part of basketball??? SGA is basically the best in the world at drawing fouls. What’s wrong with that? Are fans just going to complain when anyone gets to the line a lot?

More often than not: They. Can’t. Guard. Him.

If you played basketball, you’d understand that his skill set is sooooo damn valuable. Should he be ashamed at getting to the line by putting guys out of position?

Why is NBA discourse only about being pissed about a guy who’s clearly better than everyone else at manipulating the defense to get fouls? 9 times out of 10, he was fouled. Like wtf?

Go to your local LA Fitness and start calling fouls like the "contact" SGA gets.

I dare you. You will get laughed out of the court. No one is questioning his other skills. It's the constant foul baiting and flopping that turns the NBA into Soccer dives. SGA is acting like Neymar out there. Give SGA an Oscar because he's got you fooled.

There's a reason why you're no longer in the league Jeremy Lin.

Warned for baiting. -b

I sincerely apologize to Jeremy Lin 7 if he truly believes he's Jeremy Lin. I'm here to have fun and banter, not to insult.

[sikma42]

That's because he's too scared to drive.

He was getting blatantly fouled at the rim.

I know but SGA is always driving while Ant is too scared. I mean if he's chucking up 3s ofc he's not going to get the same calls as the guy who consistently drives.

He played through an injury last game. I'm talking about in the Lakers series where Ant didn't get those calls and he did attack the rim.

Also, not sure why this is about Ant.

[bisme37]

Then put on those big boy pants and toughen up. It's the playoffs.

Lo Wang, you just sent the mods a PM about how you can't wait to come back to the GB and have amazing high quality discussions, and so far you've trolled one poster with a line about Jeremy Lin and now you are baiting another poster with a line about big boy pants.

The ball is in your court as far as avoiding another strike.

How is telling the coach of the Twolves a personal insult? If he wants to stay in the series, he needs to toughen up and focus on his team instead of making up excuses.

Unless he really is Jeremy Lin, how is that a personal attack?

I didn't say anything about a personal attack. I warned you for trolling and baiting.

If you are still not getting what the problem is, it's kinda your problem at this point.

[Lo Wang]

He was getting blatantly fouled at the rim.

I know but SGA is always driving while Ant is too scared. I mean if he's chucking up 3s ofc he's not going to get the same calls as the guy who consistently drives.

He played through an injury last game. I'm talking about in the Lakers series where Ant didn't get those calls and he did attack the rim.

Also, not sure why this is about Ant.

I understand your position but that's highly subjective: just because Ant didn't get the calls in the last series doesn't project to this series. Both are entirely different.

[Ambrose]

FTA might be the best nickname in a long time, was it just invented on Realgm yesterday or it's been a thing for a while? lol

Agreed, best nickname I've heard in forever.

[Billl]

Meh. He flops a little. Mostly though, he's just amazing at getting inside a defense and beating guys to the spot. He does exaggerate contact more than I would like, but generally, he is going to the hoop strong and getting the benefit of whistles. He's not doing 75 pump fakes and then lifting under guys.

[sfernald]

It’s not that he’s getting to the line a lot - good players like him do. It’s the way he’s getting to the line. He gets a whistle like no other. Which is absolutely insane because of how physical guys like Dort play on the other end

It seems pretty clear that they are letting them play physically as in defenders bumping players at the perimeter and such but when players are attacking to score and the defenders are chasing and slapping at their arms from a bad position they call the fouls every time on both sides of the court.

Okc was just much much more aggressive. If Anthony Edward’s drove aggressively as much as Shai I’m sure his ft numbers would be similar. He and the rest of the team settled for contested threes. That was pretty much the game.

We watched Ant in the Lakers series. He wasn’t getting those calls.


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JDub never gets those calls. Drawing fouls is a skill, bottom line. SGA is way more skillful player in just about every way than Ant (some of that might be his age and experience and his mentoring from Chris Paul of course).

[sfernald]

Jokic being a flopper is a load of sh*t! He just got through a series where he was allowed to be mauled by a 6’5 punk.

Meanwhile Shai Flopeous is routinely bailed out by the refs. And it occurred again last night.

The ratings for the Finals are going to be abysmal if folks have to watch him shoot free throws all game.

wtf? Jokic pulled every flop in the book in that series. They will be teaching a master class in flopping for years from that series cause he has so many different up and unders and tangles and other contortions.

[ITYSL]

SGA reminds me of Butler in the way that he's able to draw fouls and get calls that 99% of other players don't get. Driving next to a defender who moving his feet and staying with him step by step, and then pushing into the defender, jumping away and taking the shot. For 99% of players, that doesn't get called as a foul. For Butler and SGA, it often does.

Example here

It's a valuable skill to have, but I don't like watching it. That play above should not be a foul in my opinion, and for the vast majority of players in this league, it isn't.

[FarBeyondDriven]

listen, all of these high usage chuckers that don't play defense are foul merchants. They're goal is to draw fouls first and foremost. It's awful looking basketball and horrible for an already terrible league. Silver is legit one of the worst commissioners in the history of sports

This take is incredibly biased showing the depth of the delusional takes we're dealing, which lines perfectly with your handle.

SGA doesn't play defense? Is this your position?

The anti-Shay crowds are getting more delusional by the minute.

he's a very overrated defender. He'd get exposed more if he didn't have good defenders all around him. He's been in the league for 7 years and has never made an all-defensive team despite the underserved narrative that he's a great defender.

[Hoop Hunter]

Being perfectly candid and sincere, while not pretending I know less about something than I really do.

He's a ****ing foul merchant extraordinaire.

[ibraheim718]

Mike got the benefit of the whistle but he was a physical player.. FTA is a finesse player.. he doesn't deserve the benefit of the whistle.

[Capn'O]

I was reliably informed that OKC would fold in the playoffs when the officials stop calling fouls (and also start calling fouls on OKC ""holding"" and ""grabbing"") lol.

Jokes aside, the truth is that Shai doesn't have elite run and jump athleticism relative to some of his superstar peers, but he has elite misdirection and is "slippery" so he puts defenders on skates and out of position. Once you get defenders out of position, you "put them in jail" by keeping them on your hip or behind you, and if they try to speed up to get back in position, you penalize their being out of position by taking the hit. It's the same principle as getting a guy to bite on a pump fake. Even if contact is slight, if they land in your space and bump you even slightly, it's a foul by the rules. This is why officials have been fairly consistent on this, with only a slight dropoff in the playoffs both years.

All superstars without elite run and jump athleticism do this. Luka does it a lot, obviously Brunson does it, Jokic does it a whole lot, Harden used to do it, Chris Paul, etc. Not everybody is Giannis where they can just overpower their way to the rim and and ram the ball down your throat, but even Giannis got a lot of complaints about officiating when Milwaukee was winning because he'd just barrel into guys and get fouls. It was for the same reason. If he gets you out of position and you overcompensate to try to get back in position, that contact will be a foul on the defender most of the time.

It's that word "slight" and the amount of performance that goes into it when the contact is slight or even initiated by him that irks people.

I agree his style of play lends to a lot of calls but that performance takes it to the next level. There were 2 or 3 calls last night where I would not have sent him to the line and his performance got him there.

[MoneyTalks41890]

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[Patches Perry]

I was reliably informed that OKC would fold in the playoffs when the officials stop calling fouls (and also start calling fouls on OKC ""holding"" and ""grabbing"") lol.

Jokes aside, the truth is that Shai doesn't have elite run and jump athleticism relative to some of his superstar peers, but he has elite misdirection and is "slippery" so he puts defenders on skates and out of position. Once you get defenders out of position, you "put them in jail" by keeping them on your hip or behind you, and if they try to speed up to get back in position, you penalize their being out of position by taking the hit. It's the same principle as getting a guy to bite on a pump fake. Even if contact is slight, if they land in your space and bump you even slightly, it's a foul by the rules. This is why officials have been fairly consistent on this, with only a slight dropoff in the playoffs both years.

All superstars without elite run and jump athleticism do this. Luka does it a lot, obviously Brunson does it, Jokic does it a whole lot, Harden used to do it, Chris Paul, etc. Not everybody is Giannis where they can just overpower their way to the rim and and ram the ball down your throat, but even Giannis got a lot of complaints about officiating when Milwaukee was winning because he'd just barrel into guys and get fouls. It was for the same reason. If he gets you out of position and you overcompensate to try to get back in position, that contact will be a foul on the defender most of the time.

It's that word "slight" and the amount of performance that goes into it when the contact is slight or even initiated by him that irks people.

I agree his style of play lends to a lot of calls but that performance takes it to the next level. There were 2 or 3 calls last night where I would not have sent him to the line and his performance got him there.

Slight contact from an out of position defender should 100% be a foul though. It's the same principle as a slight forearm guide from behind to a player in mid-air going up. Once you are out of position as a defender, you have no right to make any contact until you are back in position. We shouldn't reward out of position defenders by allowing them to leverage contact to equalize the advantage.

[Patches Perry]

SGA reminds me of Butler in the way that he's able to draw fouls and get calls that 99% of other players don't get. Driving next to a defender who moving his feet and staying with him step by step, and then pushing into the defender, jumping away and taking the shot. For 99% of players, that doesn't get called as a foul. For Butler and SGA, it often does.

Example here

It's a valuable skill to have, but I don't like watching it. That play above should not be a foul in my opinion, and for the vast majority of players in this league, it isn't.

This is a good example of what I reference in the post above.



From your example, it's at this point that Anthony Edwards contact becomes a violation. If an offensive player gets by you and you're trying to defend them from behind, you are out of position as a defender and your attempts to "guide them" with your forearm away from the hoop or off their path from out of position is a foul every single time. If Ant makes this contact while in position, then it's fine.

It's true that a lot of players in SGA's case would not "put the defender in jail" as I mentioned earlier in the thread, but rather would let Ant get away with being out of position and allow him to use his superior athleticism to make up for being out of position, but from a basketball standpoint, that's playing to the opponents strengths and not really very smart. SGA forces defenders to play disciplined and not get out of position, and there are several defenders who have been successful doing so.

[SkyBill40]

I'm not a fan of foul baiting of any kind no matter who is doing it or for what reason. To me, it's not real basketball and cheapens the sport. Yeah, I understand shooting free throws is part of the game but having watched a fair amount of calls that were made in SGA's favor, a good portion seem pretty soft and not really worthy of a trip to the stripe.

And falling down on almost every call is weaksauce.

[ITYSL]

SGA reminds me of Butler in the way that he's able to draw fouls and get calls that 99% of other players don't get. Driving next to a defender who moving his feet and staying with him step by step, and then pushing into the defender, jumping away and taking the shot. For 99% of players, that doesn't get called as a foul. For Butler and SGA, it often does.

Example here

It's a valuable skill to have, but I don't like watching it. That play above should not be a foul in my opinion, and for the vast majority of players in this league, it isn't.

This is a good example of what I reference in the post above.



From your example, it's at this point that Anthony Edwards contact becomes a violation. If an offensive player gets by you and you're trying to defend them from behind, you are out of position as a defender and your attempts to "guide them" with your forearm away from the hoop or off their path from out of position is a foul every single time. If Ant makes this contact while in position, then it's fine.

It's true that a lot of players in SGA's case would not "put the defender in jail" as I mentioned earlier in the thread, but rather would let Ant get away with being out of position and allow him to use his superior athleticism to make up for being out of position, but from a basketball standpoint, that's playing to the opponents strengths and not really very smart. SGA forces defenders to play disciplined and not get out of position, and there are several defenders who have been successful doing so.

First, the foul was not called at the point of your screenshot. It was called once Ant was even with him and SGA initiated contact into him when Ant was in a legit defensive position.

Could it be called a foul? Yes, but it shouldn't be called as often as it is for players like SGA and Butler. That's kind of what my point is. Marginal contact like this happens on nearly every drive. But players like SGA and Butler get the calls for it more than others.

[Patches Perry]

SGA reminds me of Butler in the way that he's able to draw fouls and get calls that 99% of other players don't get. Driving next to a defender who moving his feet and staying with him step by step, and then pushing into the defender, jumping away and taking the shot. For 99% of players, that doesn't get called as a foul. For Butler and SGA, it often does.

Example here

It's a valuable skill to have, but I don't like watching it. That play above should not be a foul in my opinion, and for the vast majority of players in this league, it isn't.

This is a good example of what I reference in the post above.



From your example, it's at this point that Anthony Edwards contact becomes a violation. If an offensive player gets by you and you're trying to defend them from behind, you are out of position as a defender and your attempts to "guide them" with your forearm away from the hoop or off their path from out of position is a foul every single time. If Ant makes this contact while in position, then it's fine.

It's true that a lot of players in SGA's case would not "put the defender in jail" as I mentioned earlier in the thread, but rather would let Ant get away with being out of position and allow him to use his superior athleticism to make up for being out of position, but from a basketball standpoint, that's playing to the opponents strengths and not really very smart. SGA forces defenders to play disciplined and not get out of position, and there are several defenders who have been successful doing so.

First, the foul was not called at the point of your screenshot. It was called once Ant was even with him and SGA initiated contact into him when Ant was in a legit defensive position.

Could it be called a foul? Yes, but it shouldn't be called as often as it is for players like SGA and Butler. That's kind of what my point is. Marginal contact like this happens on nearly every drive. But players like SGA and Butler get the calls for it more than others.

He was definitely not even with him when they called the foul, he was even further behind than my first screenshot. I used that screenshot to show the point where Ant was no longer in legal position to make contact, but here is the point of the foul. Ant is to the side or almost behind SGA, well out of position.

[ITYSL]

This is a good example of what I reference in the post above.



From your example, it's at this point that Anthony Edwards contact becomes a violation. If an offensive player gets by you and you're trying to defend them from behind, you are out of position as a defender and your attempts to "guide them" with your forearm away from the hoop or off their path from out of position is a foul every single time. If Ant makes this contact while in position, then it's fine.

It's true that a lot of players in SGA's case would not "put the defender in jail" as I mentioned earlier in the thread, but rather would let Ant get away with being out of position and allow him to use his superior athleticism to make up for being out of position, but from a basketball standpoint, that's playing to the opponents strengths and not really very smart. SGA forces defenders to play disciplined and not get out of position, and there are several defenders who have been successful doing so.

First, the foul was not called at the point of your screenshot. It was called once Ant was even with him and SGA initiated contact into him when Ant was in a legit defensive position.

Could it be called a foul? Yes, but it shouldn't be called as often as it is for players like SGA and Butler. That's kind of what my point is. Marginal contact like this happens on nearly every drive. But players like SGA and Butler get the calls for it more than others.

He was definitely not even with him when they called the foul, he was even further behind than my first screenshot. I used that screenshot to show the point where Ant was no longer in legal position to make contact, but here is the point of the foul. Ant is to the side or almost behind SGA, well out of position.

You keep posting screenshots before the foul was called.

And besides, if you truly wanted it called by the book like you are advocating for here, then the physical OKC defenders would be called for fouls on nearly every drive by an opponent. Additionally, SGA would be called for offensive fouls a lot more, because he often uses his off-arm to push off and create space at the top of his drives.