Is Caitlin Clark a bigger star than any of the young NBA talent?

[dhsilv2]

We literally do. The most watched basketball game of the 2020's was hers.

The bolded is such a flawed comparison I can't believe you even made it. Is she supposed to singlehandedly raise an inferior league above a much bigger one? Of course not, that's a ridiculous standard to set. The difference in ratings between when she plays vs. when she doesn't vastly exceeds any NBA player. You're basically asking why didn't "American Made" outgross Star Wars.

Hell, she brought more viewers to her NCAA final than we're seeing the NBA finals get.

NCAA is more popular than the NBA. But again still not answering the actual question.

NCAAW isn't.

I did. You asked why it doesn't translate. I showed that it does.

No you showed you don't have an answer or a clue. Which is fine.

[Pelon chingon]

CC should really consider letting the WNBA die on the vine without her.

[D.Brasco]

Yeah but that's because Tom Cruise's fans are too old for social media lol.

Still not answering the question of why it isn't translating. And the ratings while obviously she's getting ratings vs other WNBA games. The average views are something like 1.8 million per game. ABC's average for this season were 2.6 million. I know ratings were in the tank to start the year and as such TNT and ESPN had worse ratings, but we're being told her draw is only short of Curry and Lebron.

Wemby's first game had a draw of about 3.9 million, and that's americans. Clark's debut game was 2.7. And she had a 2 year build up in college.

So even there...why is she the 3rd biggest basketball player when we don't see it translate?

the nba is the ocean and the wnba is some lake in ohio. thats the biggest difference. Just a much bigger and more established league that puts no limits on a players growth potential. In the wnba there was a ceiling, CC broke through it and now has to help build a new building to facilitate her talent.

All this is great but it doesn't speak to the question being asked. Which is if she's such a bigger star than say a Wemby. Why is there no way to measure it or show it? This entire thread is 'trust me bro". I'm simply asking why we can't quantify it.

There is. I posted it a page earlier here.

Read on Twitter

[Ambrose]

NCAA is more popular than the NBA. But again still not answering the actual question.

NCAAW isn't.

I did. You asked why it doesn't translate. I showed that it does.

No you showed you don't have an answer or a clue. Which is fine.

Your entire argument is that Wemby's debut had a higher number than CC in a much bigger league. Cool.

CC has the most watched basketball game since ~2017. The only time the NCAAW has beaten the NBA Finals in ratings was when she was in it. Claiming NCAAW is bigger than the NBA is one of the silliest things ever posted on this site.

Okay, but let's ignore that because you don't like it.

The WNBA draft with CC went up over 300% from their prior record. Not the prior year, the prior RECORD. Wemby's draft went up ~25% from prior year.

WNBA ratings went up 48% last season. The NBA's ratings during Wemby's rookie season went down. Ratings this season went down 50% when CC was out. Ratings went up in the NBA the 2nd half of the year despite Wemby missing the 2nd half of the season. Her games averaged more viewers than his did. There's no comparison.

The evidence is there. The point has been proven. Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant.

[Woodsanity]

Honestly Clark should have joined the big 3. At least she would made some real money. The WNBA doesn't know what to do with her and the rest of the players there clearly despise her.

hell no, that league is garbage. she should have held out and got a bigger deal with Nike tho. I hope she got some type of points because her impact will be in the 3 commas.

So is the WNBA.

Read on Twitter

Dumb wnba lets other players blatantly try to injure her without any real punishment. If she is hurt again watch the wnba lose 50-60% viewership yet again.

[NyKnicks1714]

the nba is the ocean and the wnba is some lake in ohio. thats the biggest difference. Just a much bigger and more established league that puts no limits on a players growth potential. In the wnba there was a ceiling, CC broke through it and now has to help build a new building to facilitate her talent.

All this is great but it doesn't speak to the question being asked. Which is if she's such a bigger star than say a Wemby. Why is there no way to measure it or show it? This entire thread is 'trust me bro". I'm simply asking why we can't quantify it.

There is. I posted it a page earlier here.

Read on Twitter

Well that was easy

[dhsilv2]

NCAAW isn't.

I did. You asked why it doesn't translate. I showed that it does.

No you showed you don't have an answer or a clue. Which is fine.

Your entire argument is that Wemby's debut had a higher number than CC in a much bigger league. Cool.

CC has the most watched basketball game since ~2017. The only time the NCAAW has beaten the NBA Finals in ratings was when she was in it. Claiming NCAAW is bigger than the NBA is one of the silliest things ever posted on this site.

Okay, but let's ignore that because you don't like it.

The WNBA draft with CC went up over 300% from their prior record. Not the prior year, the prior RECORD. Wemby's draft went up ~25% from prior year.

WNBA ratings went up 48% last season. The NBA's ratings during Wemby's rookie season went down. Ratings this season went down 50% when CC was out. Ratings went up in the NBA the 2nd half of the year despite Wemby missing the 2nd half of the season. Her games averaged more viewers than his did. There's no comparison.

The evidence is there. The point has been proven. Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant.

I'm asking a question, I am not laying out an argument.

And percentage growth isn't helpful. What's 100% increase of 0?

The discussion is in absolutes and we're trying to tie back to name and face recognition. I've simply brought up data points with the questions and nobody had a hard answer to this.

[Mephariel]

I know I will never convince you, but at least take a moment to consider the view of ..umm… The United States?

After all Team USA represents the USA. You may disagree, but this is not “Team WNBA.”

The reason Clark’s exclusion was such big news, is because most of AMERICA (you know, the group you constantly, childishly, call “the worst fanbase”) wanted the popular Clark in the Olympics, representing them and the country. As I said, Team USA wins gold with or without Clark, and the WNBA “old girls club” who made the selections chose their own personal biases over the inclusion that so many Americans wanted.

You are right, it is not Team WNBA. It is Team USA. I am going to repeat this. It is Team USA, NOT Team Caitlin Clark. Do you understand this?

The committee selected a a team that won the gold medal for their country. You can should have, what if all you want, but the team succeeded in their goal. Should we now just let fans pick the Olympic roster? Is that what you are suggesting?

You have the audacity to call someone childish, when you throw a hissy fit over your favorite player not making a team, and refuse to celebrate the team that won the gold for USA. That is childish, no?

See? Your brain just can’t understand. It wouldn’t be Team Caitlyn, which is all you can see. It would be the team AMERICANS wanted to represent them. And Clark is great, and Team USA would still win a gold medal if the WNBA selection crew didn’t exclude Clark. You can’t dispute anything I said, so your brain has to ignore facts that expose your bias.

So just keep ignoring everyone else, Mepharial. Keep being childish, continually Clark fans, “the worst fanbase in sports” if it makes your childish emotions feel vindicated to keep calling huge numbers of people names. She is a great basketball player, but you seem personally offended she is more popular than other WNBA players. Too bad. As one of the millions in “the worst fanbase in sports,” let me say that we all respect you rushing in to post your little tantrums, whenever someone mentions “Caitlyn Clark.”

I think this entire post basically summarized everything wrong with this fanbase. It is not Team Caitlin Clark, but if she is not on the team, the entire America would not want the team to represent them? You don't see anything wrong with that? And do you speak for the entire America? I am pretty sure there are American who are pretty proud of Team USA no? Clark is all you see, not all I see.

What is there to dispute? Your entire argument is, Clark should be on the team because America wants it. Basically everything should revolved around her. You didn't post facts, stats, or anything to justify her selection.

I couldn't care less how popular she is. I just detest a fanbase that constantly bring down other players, the league, the commissioner, and now the entire Olympic committee just to put a player on a pedestal.

[dhsilv2]

the nba is the ocean and the wnba is some lake in ohio. thats the biggest difference. Just a much bigger and more established league that puts no limits on a players growth potential. In the wnba there was a ceiling, CC broke through it and now has to help build a new building to facilitate her talent.

All this is great but it doesn't speak to the question being asked. Which is if she's such a bigger star than say a Wemby. Why is there no way to measure it or show it? This entire thread is 'trust me bro". I'm simply asking why we can't quantify it.

There is. I posted it a page earlier here.

Read on Twitter

That's interesting data for sure. Though that's 71 (82) vs 40 games. Which of course so many of us have said the NBA ratings would sky rocket if they cut to something like 40 games. Still impressive.

[jmb987]

Umm .. Kobe literally raped a woman.

That’s by far the worst of any of them.

Umm. He was never convicted. Innocent, until proven guilty. You don't know, I don't know. To talk in absolutes about something like this is despicable.

Kobe’s own words:

First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado.

I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

Unless Kobe himself is lying about raping her, forced sex without consent is exactly the definition of rape.

I’d have let you slide in ignorance or delusion, but it was ironic for you to target me as the “despicable” one here.

Yeah - that sounds like something Kobe would say, definitely not his PR team.

Bottom line - he never was convicted. I'm not saying he was innocent, I'm saying he is not guilty and to spout that as fact as you did IS despicable.

[bovice]

when Jordan left the league, it was bigger than ever. in Lebron's last years, the face of basketball isn't even an NBA player. the debate is over as far as I'm concerned

[Optms]

the nba is the ocean and the wnba is some lake in ohio. thats the biggest difference. Just a much bigger and more established league that puts no limits on a players growth potential. In the wnba there was a ceiling, CC broke through it and now has to help build a new building to facilitate her talent.

All this is great but it doesn't speak to the question being asked. Which is if she's such a bigger star than say a Wemby. Why is there no way to measure it or show it? This entire thread is 'trust me bro". I'm simply asking why we can't quantify it.

There is. I posted it a page earlier here.

Read on Twitter

The only post that needs to be posted. This thread can be closed now.

[NyKnicks1714]

All this is great but it doesn't speak to the question being asked. Which is if she's such a bigger star than say a Wemby. Why is there no way to measure it or show it? This entire thread is 'trust me bro". I'm simply asking why we can't quantify it.

There is. I posted it a page earlier here.

Read on Twitter

That's interesting data for sure. Though that's 71 (82) vs 40 games. Which of course so many of us have said the NBA ratings would sky rocket if they cut to something like 40 games. Still impressive.

You are grasping at straws so hard in this thread.

[SOUL]

Pound for pound, she absolutely is.

[dhsilv2]

There is. I posted it a page earlier here.

Read on Twitter

That's interesting data for sure. Though that's 71 (82) vs 40 games. Which of course so many of us have said the NBA ratings would sky rocket if they cut to something like 40 games. Still impressive.

You are grasping at straws so hard in this thread.

I mean if you say so. Obviously, it's odd that we're comparing 71 games with 11 on national tv to 40 games with 36 on national tv. But I'm sure you know this and still didn't think it mattered. But those of us who look at numbers and think, are going to ask this stuff.

[NyKnicks1714]

That's interesting data for sure. Though that's 71 (82) vs 40 games. Which of course so many of us have said the NBA ratings would sky rocket if they cut to something like 40 games. Still impressive.

You are grasping at straws so hard in this thread.

I mean if you say so. Obviously, it's odd that we're comparing 71 games with 11 on national tv to 40 games with 36 on national tv. But I'm sure you know this and still didn't think it mattered. But those of us who look at numbers and think, are going to ask this stuff.

So fans have fewer opportunities to watch Wemby on National TV and CC still outdraws him on average? Even more of an indicator that she's a bigger star than he is.

[dhsilv2]

You are grasping at straws so hard in this thread.

I mean if you say so. Obviously, it's odd that we're comparing 71 games with 11 on national tv to 40 games with 36 on national tv. But I'm sure you know this and still didn't think it mattered. But those of us who look at numbers and think, are going to ask this stuff.

So fans have fewer opportunities to watch Wemby on National TV and CC still outdraws him on average? Even more of an indicator that she's a bigger star than he is.

What?

The stats posted were for clark's 40 games played (36 on national tv) vs Wemby's full 71 with 11 on national tv. And she outdrew him by barely anything...despite him playing nearly twice as many games.

The stats weren't what their draws were when on national TV. Unless I read it wrong. And then just say that.

All that said, celebrity which is the topic isn't always best shown by watching 2 hour games. That's why I brought up social media, and still am interested in if people have deeper thoughts on that topic. Or if they have a better way to measure popularity. After all, I'd guess most people who know of Lebron James haven't actually watched him play basketball as I don't think the average american watches the NBA in the first place. Ever. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it feels from the people I talk to.

[NyKnicks1714]

I mean if you say so. Obviously, it's odd that we're comparing 71 games with 11 on national tv to 40 games with 36 on national tv. But I'm sure you know this and still didn't think it mattered. But those of us who look at numbers and think, are going to ask this stuff.

So fans have fewer opportunities to watch Wemby on National TV and CC still outdraws him on average? Even more of an indicator that she's a bigger star than he is.

What?

The stats posted were for clark's 40 games played (36 on national tv) vs Wemby's full 71 with 11 on national tv. And she outdrew him by barely anything...despite him playing nearly twice as many games.

The stats weren't what their draws were when on national TV. Unless I read it wrong. And then just say that.

All that said, celebrity which is the topic isn't always best shown by watching 2 hour games. That's why I brought up social media, and still am interested in if people have deeper thoughts on that topic. Or if they have a better way to measure popularity. After all, I'd guess most people who know of Lebron James haven't actually watched him play basketball as I don't think the average american watches the NBA in the first place. Ever. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it feels from the people I talk to.

Oh the WNBA has fewer games so each game matters more so people watch more...seriously? No one cares about any of that, they just want to watch Caitlin Clark play. You're burying the lede with your nitpicking and deflecting. The NBA draws far more viewers than the WNBA in general, at least 3x per game from what I can find in the regular season, and yet Clark outdraws a player like Wemby despite that massive hurdle.

And then when you realize how game viewership completely dismantles your claims, you pivot to social media and mention how she only has 3 million Instagram followers, which is a terrible metric for basketball stardom (unless you want to tell me that the list of the 6 biggest NBA stars includes Westbrook, Lonzo Ball, and Klay Thompson). You clearly don't want her to be bigger than the NBA's young stars, but she simply is.

[Ambrose]

https://today.yougov.com/ratings/sports/fame/contemporary-sports-personalities/all

Clark is 5th among basketball players in 'fame' behind Lebron, Steph, KD, and a literal prisoner of war. She's closer to #2 than she is to #6.

On Google Trends she obliterates every basketball player not named LeBron or Steph both in terms of US searches and global. Same thing with YouTube.

Her popularity is undeniable.

[dhsilv2]

So fans have fewer opportunities to watch Wemby on National TV and CC still outdraws him on average? Even more of an indicator that she's a bigger star than he is.

What?

The stats posted were for clark's 40 games played (36 on national tv) vs Wemby's full 71 with 11 on national tv. And she outdrew him by barely anything...despite him playing nearly twice as many games.

The stats weren't what their draws were when on national TV. Unless I read it wrong. And then just say that.

All that said, celebrity which is the topic isn't always best shown by watching 2 hour games. That's why I brought up social media, and still am interested in if people have deeper thoughts on that topic. Or if they have a better way to measure popularity. After all, I'd guess most people who know of Lebron James haven't actually watched him play basketball as I don't think the average american watches the NBA in the first place. Ever. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how it feels from the people I talk to.

Oh the WNBA has fewer games so each game matters more so people watch more...seriously? No one cares about any of that, they just want to watch Caitlin Clark play. You're burying the lede with your nitpicking and deflecting. The NBA draws far more viewers than the WNBA in general, at least 3x per game from what I can find in the regular season, and yet Clark outdraws a player like Wemby despite that massive hurdle.

And then when you realize how game viewership completely dismantles your claims, you pivot to social media and mention how she only has 3 million Instagram followers, which is a terrible metric for basketball stardom (unless you want to tell me that the list of the 6 biggest NBA stars includes Westbrook, Lonzo Ball, and Klay Thompson). You clearly don't want her to be bigger than the NBA's young stars, but she simply is.

So you don't know the difference in nationally televised games and those not. And I pretty clearly don't care either way who's more popular. I'm asking questions because I don't know and I'm questioning things presented because they are terrible uses of data.