RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 3)

[Rust_Cohle]

I get it, you’re projecting because you didn’t witness the Bulls and I did.

But I hope that you realize I don’t care at all that you post this. You make yourself look silly and desperate, especially since ai actually went to games when I was young.
And the funny thing is that it communicates that you conceded and literally have nothing to say back. But I think that I’m going to start reading some of your posts and reporting them since they’re so childish in the first place.

unrelated or insult = you’ve given up and have nothing to say, every single time, fake bulls fan. Poll has Mj at 3.5X of Lebrick’s votes

75-25 here, 25-12 in favor of MJ over LeBron in question of "which peak is better than MJ?" even in PC Board (LeBrons fanboys sect), it seems just Jordan became more consensus GOAT the more time is gone. Incredible.
But... PC Board fanboys went berserk in their ritual greatest peak thread, where the voting panel is such a unbias, that in half of posters balots of top-3 Jordan is absent, Im not sure is this just multiple accounts trolls or not... but very funny

Many of us here never ever post on PC board. And MJ being so far ahead shouldn’t be a surprise, a double three peat is beyond insane. Nobody cares for runner ups in the long run. 6 in 8 during the 3 point era is something we won’t see again for a long long time. East in the 2010’s was pretty crummy but yes, LeBron’s finals run is impressive too. But MJ altered the careers of so many hall of famers with them not winning any rings

[Yank3525]

But MJ altered the careers of so many hall of famers with them not winning any rings

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything post 1990 was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out of it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

[ReggiesKnicks]

But MJ altered the careers of so many hall of famers with them not winning any rings

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

[Yank3525]

But MJ altered the careers of so many hall of famers with them not winning any rings

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

No

Scottie was a great player, but some of these playoff runs he had with the Bulls were ass. People just ignore them because they won.

[ReggiesKnicks]

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

No

Scottie was a great player, but some of these playoff runs he had with the Bulls were ass. People just ignore them because they won.

Pippen was still an All-NBA player who, even when he struggled offensively, was still impactful as a playmaker, defender and on the defensive glass.

Pippen was the perfect complimentary player to a star in the 1990s, not only was he the best 2nd option for a majority of the 1990s, but his skill-set was incredibly resilient since he was impactful beyond scoring.

I've dreamt many of times for my Pacers to have have a player as good as Pippen to pair with Reggie

[Yank3525]

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

No

Scottie was a great player, but some of these playoff runs he had with the Bulls were ass. People just ignore them because they won.

Pippen was still an All-NBA player who, even when he struggled offensively, was still impactful as a playmaker, defender and on the defensive glass.

Pippen was the perfect complimentary player to a star in the 1990s, not only was he the best 2nd option for a majority of the 1990s, but his skill-set was incredibly resilient since he was impactful beyond scoring.

I've dreamt many of times for my Pacers to have have a player as good as Pippen to pair with Reggie

He was a great complimentary player for Jordan because of Jordan's prowess as a scorer. That allowed Scottie to play his game. I am not sure you can just pair him with anyone in the 90s and they magically win title besides maybe Hakeem.

[ReggiesKnicks]

No

Scottie was a great player, but some of these playoff runs he had with the Bulls were ass. People just ignore them because they won.

Pippen was still an All-NBA player who, even when he struggled offensively, was still impactful as a playmaker, defender and on the defensive glass.

Pippen was the perfect complimentary player to a star in the 1990s, not only was he the best 2nd option for a majority of the 1990s, but his skill-set was incredibly resilient since he was impactful beyond scoring.

I've dreamt many of times for my Pacers to have have a player as good as Pippen to pair with Reggie

He was a great complimentary player for Jordan because of Jordan's prowess as a scorer. That allowed Scottie to play his game. I am not sure you can just pair him with anyone in the 90s and they magically win title besides maybe Hakeem.

Nobody said magically win titles or pair Pipen with anyone. You are ignoring what I am saying with generalities when I provided specifics

I specifically said the difference between Scottie Pippen and Sean Elliot, and Scottie Pippen and Pearson/McKey.

I provided specific examples of teams significantly upgrading a starting-caliber wing for the All-NBA Scottie Pippen. That's a major jump in impact and talent we are talking about here.

[Rust_Cohle]

But MJ altered the careers of so many hall of famers with them not winning any rings

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

[ReggiesKnicks]

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Michael Jordan is the best scorer ever. Building around him allows for having players who weren't great scorers, like Pippen. But, like I said, Pippen could impact basketball games and winning in a variety of ways, at an elite level, without scoring.

Fun Fact Time!

LeBron scored 38.3% of his teams points in the 2015 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 38.0% of his teams points in the 1998 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 36.8% of his teams points in the 1997 NBA Finals

[MavsDirk41]

But MJ altered the careers of so many hall of famers with them not winning any rings

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Maybe Pippen doesnt become the player he did if he wasnt traded to the Bulls by Seattle for Olden Polynice in 87. We can what if all day lol. There is reality and “what if player x played with player y”

[ReggiesKnicks]

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Maybe Pippen doesnt become the player he did if he wasnt traded to the Bulls by Seattle for Olden Polynice in 87. We can what if all day lol. There is reality and “what if player x played with player y”

That's true. But once you get to the point you are, then the reality is we can't even compare players. They all had different coaches, circumstances, teammates, etc.

Be careful about slippery slope, or only applying what-ifs in order to prop up your own idol

[MavsDirk41]

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Maybe Pippen doesnt become the player he did if he wasnt traded to the Bulls by Seattle for Olden Polynice in 87. We can what if all day lol. There is reality and “what if player x played with player y”

That's true. But once you get to the point you are, then the reality is we can't even compare players. They all had different coaches, circumstances, teammates, etc.

Be careful about slippery slope, or only applying what-ifs in order to prop up your own idol

Lol im not propping anyone up my man! My guy is Dirk by the way lol….Bird was my favorite player growing up also. Just because i think Jordan is the goat doesn’t mean he is my idol lol.

[Rust_Cohle]

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Michael Jordan is the best scorer ever. Building around him allows for having players who weren't great scorers, like Pippen. But, like I said, Pippen could impact basketball games and winning in a variety of ways, at an elite level, without scoring.

Fun Fact Time!

LeBron scored 38.3% of his teams points in the 2015 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 38.0% of his teams points in the 1998 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 36.8% of his teams points in the 1997 NBA Finals

Fun Correction Time!



Jordan was 38.4% in 1993 which you failed to mention. Jordan has 4 of the top 5 ever in that circumstance. Never had teammate drop 40+ in a game either in the finals.

Top Individual Scoring Shares in NBA Finals History (All Teams):


1. Michael Jordan (1993 Bulls) – Scored 38.4% of his team’s total points in the Finals (highest ever).

2. LeBron James (2015 Cavaliers) – Scored 38.3% of Cleveland’s Finals points (runner-up).

3. Michael Jordan (1998 Bulls) – Scored 34.8% of the Bulls’ Finals points.

4. Michael Jordan (1992 Bulls) – Accounted for 34.4% of the Bulls’ Finals points.

5. Michael Jordan (1997 Bulls) – Tallied 32.0% of the Bulls’ Finals scoring.

6. LeBron James (2012 Heat) – Led Miami with 31.1% of their Finals scoring.

7. Hakeem Olajuwon (1995 Rockets) – Delivered 30.8% of Houston’s Finals points.

8. Shaquille O’Neal (2000 Lakers) – Scored 30.7% of the Lakers’ Finals points.

[ScrantonBulls]

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Michael Jordan is the best scorer ever. Building around him allows for having players who weren't great scorers, like Pippen. But, like I said, Pippen could impact basketball games and winning in a variety of ways, at an elite level, without scoring.

Fun Fact Time!

LeBron scored 38.3% of his teams points in the 2015 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 38.0% of his teams points in the 1998 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 36.8% of his teams points in the 1997 NBA Finals

Hey, get out of here with that context! Rust cohle deals with extremely useful advanced statistics such as "teammates that scored double digit ppg". You can't get much deeper than that!

[Rust_Cohle]

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Michael Jordan is the best scorer ever. Building around him allows for having players who weren't great scorers, like Pippen. But, like I said, Pippen could impact basketball games and winning in a variety of ways, at an elite level, without scoring.

Fun Fact Time!

LeBron scored 38.3% of his teams points in the 2015 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 38.0% of his teams points in the 1998 NBA Finals
Jordan scored 36.8% of his teams points in the 1997 NBA Finals

Hey, get out of here with that context! Rust cohle deals with extremely useful advanced statistics such as "teammates that scored double digit ppg". You can't get much deeper than that!

Taj is even better with ignoring facts!

1. Michael Jordan (1993 Bulls) – Scored 38.4% of his team’s total points in the Finals (highest ever).

2. LeBron James (2015 Cavaliers) – Scored 38.3% of Cleveland’s Finals points (runner-up).

3. Michael Jordan (1998 Bulls) – Scored 34.8% of the Bulls’ Finals points.

4. Michael Jordan (1992 Bulls) – Accounted for 34.4% of the Bulls’ Finals points.

5. Michael Jordan (1997 Bulls) – Tallied 32.0% of the Bulls’ Finals scoring.

6. LeBron James (2012 Heat) – Led Miami with 31.1% of their Finals scoring.

7. Hakeem Olajuwon (1995 Rockets) – Delivered 30.8% of Houston’s Finals points.

8. Shaquille O’Neal (2000 Lakers) – Scored 30.7% of the Lakers’ Finals points.

4 of the top 5 belong to MJ.

[bledredwine]

75-25 here, 25-12 in favor of MJ over LeBron in question of "which peak is better than MJ?" even in PC Board (LeBrons fanboys sect), it seems just Jordan became more consensus GOAT the more time is gone. Incredible.
But... PC Board fanboys went berserk in their ritual greatest peak thread, where the voting panel is such a unbias, that in half of posters balots of top-3 Jordan is absent, Im not sure is this just multiple accounts trolls or not... but very funny

I always get a kick out of the meltdowns people have over the PC forum because their conclusions don't align with what they want to believe. They get so upset that the PC forum uses in depth analysis and advanced statistics as a basis for their opinions, as opposed to simply using "rangz!" In reality, you are just upset because the majority pick LeBron over Jordan

Imagine complaining about the Peak Project, where they use in depth analysis to make a case for who has the best peak, all while championing the anonymous poll in this that requires no justification or analysis Peak Gregoire right there.

As opposed to you of course, who would never ‘melt down’ in the face of disagreement.

The question is whether they have looked at the data then formed the conclusion, or formed the conclusion then looked for data to support that conclusion as is your own wont. I can tell you that in actual science and in medical science in particular retrospective analyses are given quite low weight as evidence.

Yep. The PC forum is the propaganda comparison forum. Any time someone does quality research showing on/off numbers for Jordan or whichever ways he’s dominant, the thread sinks to the bottom of the page. Meanwhile, they have a Lebron thread for years that has more posts than probably any thread here. I’ve heard many posters joke about that forum, for good reason.

[ScrantonBulls]

It is amazing.

The only top 20-30 players who won anything in the 90s was Hakeem and D-Rob and they won when Jordan was basically out of the picture. Even during the Pats run, Eli Manning got two rings out ot it. We will never see anything like that again in basketball.

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Fun Correction Time!

MJ played with 6 HOF teammates, not 4.

Steve Holt! Rust Cohle!

[bledredwine]

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Fun Correction Time!

MJ played with 6 HOF teammates, not 4.

Steve Holt! Rust Cohle!

You are wrong. Should I copy and paste it in several threads?

[Rust_Cohle]

Do you think Robinson wins if his 2nd best teammate is Scottie Pippen instead of Sean Elliot?

How many titles does Jordan win with Sean Elliot instead of Scottie Pippen?

Look at the years 1990-1998.

What if my Pacers get Scottie Pippen from 1990-1998 instead of Chuck Pearson and Derrick McKey?

Let's also not forget how many titles Wilt or West would have without Russell, that's even crazier than the 1990s

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Fun Correction Time!

MJ played with 6 HOF teammates, not 4.

Lebron played with what will be a whopping 11.

Oh and as for the finals

Player
Finals BPM
Minutes

Michael Jordan
+10.9

LeBron James
+9.5


Go back to sleep Taj

[Rust_Cohle]

Pippen would have plenty of stinkers in the big games as good he is. He even had multiple finals averaging less than 16 points per game. MJ had the lowest supporting cast for scoring in finals history multiple times (‘97 and ‘98)

Russell had more HOF teammates than MJ, a whopping 3 times as many! He had 12 while MJ had 4. Huge difference there too.

Fun Correction Time!

MJ played with 6 HOF teammates, not 4.

Steve Holt! Rust Cohle!

You are wrong. Should I copy and paste it in several threads?

I believe MJ briefly played with parish and artist Gilmore who could be the additional 2