Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[BodieB]

So your not gonna answer my question? Who in the east had more talent then James with Wade, Bosh, Irving, and Love during those years?

Who did they face? Paul George, Roy Hibbert, and David West Pacers? Al Horford, Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith Hawks? Lowry, and Derozan Raptors? Rookie Jason Tatum, second year Brown, and Scary Terry Celtics?

D-Rose’s Bulls, Big 3 + prime Rondo Celtics, PG’s Pacers, Baby Tatum’s Celtics, Lowry/DeRozan Raptors, and the 60 win Hawks were all very formidable teams.

And unlike Stockton, Lebron actually beat them. Stockton lost in the first round to a team led by Tom Chambers.

Other than the Garnett, Allen, Pierce Celtics none of those teams were anything special. They were good teams but certainly not great. And thats over an 8 year period. The east was weak during that timeframe and James played with the most talent and his teams were expected to win the east those years. Try again.

A historic championship team is both great and special practically by definition.

[TwitterFingers]

Feel free to disagree. That doesn’t mean Stockton is whining. I don’t know where you’re getting that from. I agree with Stockton that LeBron’s championships are somewhat tainted. Am I whining too?

Seems like splitting hairs whether its called whining or not. Whatever word you want to use it sounds almost like sour grapes from Stockton and yes I'd say you are doing it too.

Just because you don’t like or agree with what a person is saying it doesn’t mean they’re whining. Ad hominem gets old.

[Rust_Cohle]

LMAO, since when are double double (literally 10/10 in this case) and TWO 3rd quarter threes signs of an elite supporting cast?

LMAO, you think all starters on title winning teams average double digits? Get real, LeBron had a great starting five in 2016.

Third and fourth best scorers in 2016 were JR and Thompson with 20 points combined (10 each). I quickly checked last 20 champions and only one team had third+fourth scorer worse than that in the Finals - 2010 Lakers. What a freaking elite cast, lol.

And second highest scorer is kyrie at 30 PPG, which for a 2nd option is the highest since 2000 Lakers. That cavs team had one of the best offensive and defensive ratings in the league. Very very few champs had a better 2nd option than Kyrie

[Iwasawitness]

LMAO, you think all starters on title winning teams average double digits? Get real, LeBron had a great starting five in 2016.

Third and fourth best scorers in 2016 were JR and Thompson with 20 points combined (10 each). I quickly checked last 20 champions and only one team had third+fourth scorer worse than that in the Finals - 2010 Lakers. What a freaking elite cast, lol.

And second highest scorer is kyrie at 30 PPG, which for a 2nd option is the highest since 2000 Lakers. That cavs team had one of the best offensive and defensive ratings in the league. Very very few champs had a better 2nd option than Kyrie

I don't think there's a single thing you just said here that's correct. That's actually kind of impressive.

[Cavsfansince84]

Just because you don’t like or agree with what a person is saying it doesn’t mean they’re whining. Ad hominem gets old.

Bro, that is not at all what ad hominem is. You just don't agree with how other people are characterizing what Stockton said because you tend to agree with it. Ad hominem would be like if I or someone else had said something like 'Stockton is just an old moron who crapped the bed in the 98 finals'. It's not looking directly at what he said and then coming to the conclusion that he is whining.

[TwitterFingers]

Just because you don’t like or agree with what a person is saying it doesn’t mean they’re whining. Ad hominem gets old.

Bro, that is not at all what ad hominem is. You just don't agree with how other people are characterizing what Stockton said because you tend to agree with it. Ad hominem would be like if I or someone else had said something like 'Stockton is just an old moron who crapped the bed in the 98 finals'. It's not looking directly at what he said and then coming to the conclusion that he is whining.

Buddy all it takes is someone to say LeBron championships are somewhat tainted and you think that means they’re whining. Perhaps you’re too emotionally invested in what people think about LeBron

LeBron is a great player, one of the all time bests, but his championships are diminished. That’s not a troll or whining, amigo! That’s an opinion.

[Cavsfansince84]

Buddy all it takes is someone to say LeBron championships are somewhat tainted and you think that means they’re whining. Perhaps you’re too emotionally invested in what people think about LeBron

LeBron is a great player, one of the all time bests, but his championships are diminished. That’s not a troll or whining, amigo! That’s an opinion.

No, now you're just making a ridiculous generalization based on nothing. I don't care if people want to call it tainted on the internet because they've been doing that every single day for years. What I commented on here is Stockton in specific saying they don't have value(if that's what he actually said, I should probably double check tbh given how people exaggerate on the internet). That's my point though, is I am addressing your opinion with my own opinion. You then couldn't handle that so had to accuse me of making an ad hominem attack on Stockton which I then also addressed. That's what happened here that involved me. It's people giving opinions on the internet.

[ball_takes23]

So, to get this straight:

People calling out Lebron for stacking the deck/ring chasing/team hopping = whining

Lebron fans complaining nonstop for a decade, including in this thread which has nothing to do with KD, about how KD one-upped Lebron’s unfair superteams with his even more unfair superteam = just calling it like they see it

[dWadeOwnzYou]

I'm a Lebron disliker and I still think Stockton's take is bs or he's misquoted or misinterpreted.

[Dick Tate]

I just came here to whine about the people who are whining about the people who are calling Stockton a whiner.

[Mazter]

Well yeah, you get drafted to a winning team with an All NBA/All Star in Dantley, a 1x AS in Green, a DPOY/All Defensive in Eaton and a former ROY in Griffith. Than Karl Malone is drafted the next year, he doesnt need any introduction. And the team gets you Tripucka, a 2x All Star, Thulr Bailey a multiple 6th man candidate, a 2x All Star in Jeff Malone. Eventually he also got All Star type players in Hornacek and Tom Chambers. It's easy to say "lets get to work" in that given situation.

The talent on the Cavs from 2003-2010 is lightyears away from the kind of talent Stockton got during his career with the Jazz. But hey, at least LeBron was trying to get to the top from the foot of the mountain. Stockton kinda got dropped on the middle of the mountain and never really understood how to get to the top. And at 63 apparently he still doesn't.

[NbaAllDay]

It always amazes me how often some of these people pick apart Lebrons accomplishments yet never apply to same level of attention or critique to other players.

[DimesandKnicks]

Which once again, thompson averaged a double double and jr smith double digits with a big game 7 3rd quarter and cavs had more double digit scoring players than the warriors.

LMAO, since when are double double (literally 10/10 in this case) and TWO 3rd quarter threes signs of an elite supporting cast?

I don’t know how some people can live like this

[Iwasawitness]

So, to get this straight:

People calling out Lebron for stacking the deck/ring chasing/team hopping = whining

Lebron fans complaining nonstop for a decade, including in this thread which has nothing to do with KD, about how KD one-upped Lebron’s unfair superteams with his even more unfair superteam = just calling it like they see it

LeBrons super teams weren't unfair, and at some point we need to stop pretending they were.

[DimesandKnicks]

Dirk Nowitzki and jokic did something LeBron could never do and that’s win a championship without any help.

LeBron could only win when he was on a super team.

Dirk and jokic won a championship with literally no all stars on their team. They earned their championships, LeBron didn’t. He took the easy way.

Dirk probably played with more allstars and talented players than most of his peers. His teams were contenders/psuedo contenders from the word go. He played for a competent organization that constantly surrounded him with elite talent.

Jokic doesn’t win a championship without Murray averaging like 20 and 10 throughout that playoff run

[OdomFan]

If Lebron did what KD did with the Warriors then I would agree....but Lebron never joined a team that was already capable of winning a championship before AND after him joining/leaving.

The previous seasons rosters cability chances is irrelevant. He and 2 other prime stars from the same draft class tipped the scale in their favor by joining up. That's the only reason this is looked at as a bad thing. Not only that, but he announced it on national TV back then, and predicted multiple championships would come out of it.

What KD did was bad, but this was definitely just as bad imo.

[DimesandKnicks]

So, to get this straight:

People calling out Lebron for stacking the deck/ring chasing/team hopping = whining

Lebron fans complaining nonstop for a decade, including in this thread which has nothing to do with KD, about how KD one-upped Lebron’s unfair superteams with his even more unfair superteam = just calling it like they see it

KD played with two future MVPs and I believe was up 3-1 to the team he ended up joining. There are certainly levels.

[DimesandKnicks]

So, to get this straight:

People calling out Lebron for stacking the deck/ring chasing/team hopping = whining

Lebron fans complaining nonstop for a decade, including in this thread which has nothing to do with KD, about how KD one-upped Lebron’s unfair superteams with his even more unfair superteam = just calling it like they see it

KD played with two future MVPs and I believe was up 3-1 to the team he ended up joining. There are certainly levels.

[HMFFL]

If Lebron did what KD did with the Warriors then I would agree....but Lebron never joined a team that was already capable of winning a championship before AND after him joining/leaving.

Let's not revise history; it was LeBron who started the super team era.

Lebron brought a knife to a fist fight while KD took out a gun...there's a difference.

Lebron started the superteam stuff but he never joined an established championship caliber team like KD did.....and we've seen the success KD has had starting his own superteams with the Nets and Suns...didn't work out too great.

You considered the Suns a super team? That's odd.

The Nets had a 12-3 record when KD, Kyrie, and Harden played together in Brooklyn. It's odd that you would mention that it didn't work out due to the cermistances. Covid was a thing but you act as if the three of them played a full season together...15 games!

KD to Golden is a problem for you as well. KD lead them to two championships and won the FMVP both times. If you fail to realize he was the guy on Golden State you might be part of the peohlem. The chances are low that Golden State wins those two titles without KD.

Oh, wait, according to what you said about the Suns, Nets, and KD in Golden State, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

[MavsDirk41]

D-Rose’s Bulls, Big 3 + prime Rondo Celtics, PG’s Pacers, Baby Tatum’s Celtics, Lowry/DeRozan Raptors, and the 60 win Hawks were all very formidable teams.

And unlike Stockton, Lebron actually beat them. Stockton lost in the first round to a team led by Tom Chambers.

Other than the Garnett, Allen, Pierce Celtics none of those teams were anything special. They were good teams but certainly not great. And thats over an 8 year period. The east was weak during that timeframe and James played with the most talent and his teams were expected to win the east those years. Try again.

A historic championship team is both great and special practically by definition.

I agree about the Garnett, Pierce, Ray Allen Boston Celtics. The other teams he mentioned? No. Were they good teams? Yes. Were they all time great teams? No. Which is the point that i was making in which the east was weak.