The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[bebopdeluxe]

Just out of curiosity, did anyone else notice on the Jazz final play, Mitchell passes, holds up his hands to get the ball back.

When the ball didn't come to him he just kept walking backwards out of the half court.

He literally left his team to play 4 on 5 on the last offensive possession of the game.

Did anyone else notice this? Anyone have the game feed of It? The replay used a zoomed out view where you could see the entire half court.

Really? Does anybody have video of that?

[FinNasty]

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[Black Mage]

Just out of curiosity, did anyone else notice on the Jazz final play, Mitchell passes, holds up his hands to get the ball back.

When the ball didn't come to him he just kept walking backwards out of the half court.

He literally left his team to play 4 on 5 on the last offensive possession of the game.

Did anyone else notice this? Anyone have the game feed of It? The replay used a zoomed out view where you could see the entire half court.

Really? Does anybody have video of that?

I found a video on YouTube, but I suck at embedding.

Do a Google search for Celtics Jazz last minute and there is a 8 minute uncut video. The Jazz last play is at the 3:45 Mark and I was right, Mitchell bails on his teammates.

[QPR]

Strange one. It looks like he realises someone is going to drive and instead moves back to prevent any Boston fast break if there is a turnover?

[KDBG]

The nitpicking is beyond unnecessary, and that goes for both sides of the Mitchell/Simmons debate. To pick one play where it looks like Mitchell bails on his teammates, when he has been clutch in a lot of games this season, it kind of tells something about a person when they watch a player hoping that he fails. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it sure as hell looks like. I love watching Simmons succeed, cause it means the league has another future superstar. The same with Mitchell.

I wish people would stop, from both sides, and appreciate both of their talents. How hard is that?

[PhilBlackson]

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Dope!

Gave me somewhat flashbacks of this...

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Obviously Bam's was a lesser version but still hella impressive.

[Litany]

Barkley, Shaq and others make their pick for ROTY, yeeahhh Donovan, you go boy

Watch on YouTube

No surprise they dont like simmons. He's Australian. Cant have a foreigner winning.

Ith a conthpirathy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't be that they just love Mitchell and think he's got game and could be deserving of the award...has to be they hate foreigners

[Litany]

The nitpicking is beyond unnecessary, and that goes for both sides of the Mitchell/Simmons debate. To pick one play where it looks like Mitchell bails on his teammates, when he has been clutch in a lot of games this season, it kind of tells something about a person when they watch a player hoping that he fails. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it sure as hell looks like. I love watching Simmons succeed, cause it means the league has another future superstar. The same with Mitchell.

I wish people would stop, from both sides, and appreciate both of their talents. How hard is that?

Mitchell haters have gotten so utterly ridiculous at this point

it's beyond understanding.

When people present a case for Mitchell and reference a TON of people who also love Mitchell and agree about him being in the debate for the ROTY award, instead of some of those Simmons supporters being like "okay hmmm, Mitchell is having a great season and there IS a debate for it. They are both fantastic and lets talk about the things they do and not tear them down every second. Still think my guy Simmons will win it, but Donovan is making this really fun and interesting!" instead its "DOUBLE DOWN....THE DEBATE IS OVER MITCHELL HAS NO CASE WHATSOEVER LALALALA I DON"T CARE IF YOU AND EVERYONE BUT SIMMONS LOVERS SAY OTHERWISE, THERE'S NO DEBATE ITS OVA!!!!!"

[loveandbeer]

Why are D-Mitch fans so sensitive? Have no horse in this race but that play is definitely something worthy of pointing out - fail to see how that's "hating" or "nitpicking" or whatever. Should be called out for a play like that - but he's a young dude, he'll figure it out.

[Black Mage]

Why are D-Mitch fans so sensitive? Have no horse in this race but that play is definitely something worthy of pointing out - fail to see how that's "hating" or "nitpicking" or whatever. Should be called out for a play like that - but he's a young dude, he'll figure it out.

Thank you.

I purposely left out any commentary on ROY. I don't think the play should impact ROY at all.

I did find it worthy of mentioning because I don't ever recall seeing a guy moonwalk his way out of the half court when his team is struggling to get a shot off on what could be the last play of the game. I used bail because thats what it appeared to me.

All I asked was if anyone else saw the play and their take on it. One guy aptly suggested DM was hedging in case their was a turnover and he would be in position to thwart a Celtics fast break. Which is very possible.

[Litany]

Why are D-Mitch fans so sensitive? Have no horse in this race but that play is definitely something worthy of pointing out - fail to see how that's "hating" or "nitpicking" or whatever. Should be called out for a play like that - but he's a young dude, he'll figure it out.

One guy aptly suggested DM was hedging in case their was a turnover and he would be in position to thwart a Celtics fast break. Which is very possible.

That you needed someone to point out the likelihood of this being what happened is very telling and exactly our point...

So transparent, it's just comical at this point.

[Black Mage]

Why are D-Mitch fans so sensitive? Have no horse in this race but that play is definitely something worthy of pointing out - fail to see how that's "hating" or "nitpicking" or whatever. Should be called out for a play like that - but he's a young dude, he'll figure it out.

One guy aptly suggested DM was hedging in case their was a turnover and he would be in position to thwart a Celtics fast break. Which is very possible.

That you needed someone to point out the likelihood of this being what happened is very telling and exactly our point...

So transparent, it's just comical at this point.

It didn't seem that way to me because he looked to be walking on an angle away from the play side and not straight back to center of court which would be the proper position to take if you are hedging on a turnover fast break.

But it is possible.

Please point out to me where I made any comment that this should hurt his ROY merits. I'll save you the time, there are none because it shouldn't. If one play could undo a season worth of stellar play then no rookie would ever win. Ben has quite a few plays where he threw God awful passes right to a defender. Bad plays, but not something where it would ruin his merits.

This just happened to be a play I thought was so odd it was worth chatting about instead of the monotonous who is better arguments.

In case you haven't noticed I stopped arguing about ROY because almost every stat or argument that could be made has been made as nauseam. I don't feel like rehashing those arguments and don't really care at this point which guy wins because they have each done enough to warrant the hardware. It's why I had no issue with the Shaq and Barkley saying DM should win and didn't comment or argue on that thread a few pages ago.

[Litany]

One guy aptly suggested DM was hedging in case their was a turnover and he would be in position to thwart a Celtics fast break. Which is very possible.

That you needed someone to point out the likelihood of this being what happened is very telling and exactly our point...

So transparent, it's just comical at this point.

It didn't seem that way to me because he looked to be walking on an angle away from the play side and not straight back to center of court which would be the proper position to take if you are hedging on a turnover fast break.

But it is possible.

Please point out to me where I made any comment that this should hurt his ROY merits. I'll save you the time, there are none because it shouldn't. If one play could undo a season worth of stellar play then no rookie would ever win. Ben has quite a few plays where he threw God awful passes right to a defender. Bad plays, but not something where it would ruin his merits.

This just happened to be a play I thought was so odd it was worth chatting about instead of the monotonous who is better arguments.

In case you haven't noticed I stopped arguing about ROY because almost every stat or argument that could be made has been made as nauseam. I don't feel like rehashing those arguments and don't really care at this point which guy wins because they have each done enough to warrant the hardware. It's why I had no issue with the Shaq and Barkley saying DM should win and didn't comment or argue on that thread a few pages ago.

Fair enough. Maybe I jumped the gun or just misinterpreted the intent of the post, my bad

It's gonna be interesting to see how the next few weeks go. Even if the Sixers schedule is pretty light, if Simmons excels without Embiid and they win their remaining games, I could see that really helping him make the case.

It is actually being discussed now by the voters for the award, see this from Sports Illustrated Pod:

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/03/30/joel-embiid-injury-76ers-ben-simmons-donovan-mitchell

Golliver: I've got a question for you on this subject: Will this final stretch here determine the Rookie of the Year race? Will how Ben Simmons responds to this injury without having Joel Embiid, where he has to go out there and all of his flaws and all of his strengths are going to be on full display. Will his response decide who wins Rookie of the Year?

Sharp: That's a really great point, actually. I hadn't thought about it that way, but, look, you mentioned it, some of the numbers in terms of Embiid's on-off impact, and particularly as that impact relates to Simmons, some of those numbers are pretty staggering. And it's always been sort of the hole in Simmons's resume for Rookie of the Year, and now he sort of has a chance to go ahead and prove everybody wrong. I don't know what he has to do to answer those questions, but it's definitely something to watch. And I'm sure the entire state of Utah is going to be watching these Sixers games ready to pounce if Philly struggles.

Golliver: That's what I'm saying. They have about eight games left. If they go 3–5 over those final eight, don't you think the Utah chorus is going to be, 'Well, look guys, come on. The reason why they were winning was Embiid, not Simmons. Simmons might have good all-around numbers, but is it translating to wins?' That's really part of their argument about Donovan Mitchell, right? It's that he was so essential to their winning when Rudy Gobert wasn't out there, he kind of kept them afloat and then he's been huge late in games to kind of help them win. If Simmons isn't able to have at least some sort of counterargument to that, I can see that gaining a lot of traction with people running to Team Mitchell and not looking back.

Sharp: And to me that would be unfortunate and annoying because, to be clear and to step into my role as Sixers troll, I was ready to vote for Donovan Mitchell as Rookie of the Year regardless and I don't want to use these 10 meaningless games as part of the argument. I'm sure others will, but I was ready to vote for Donovan Mitchell before all this and I was ready for the Wizards to beat a healthy Sixers team in the playoffs and it was going to be awesome. And I hope we still get that chance. We'll see what happens.

I wondered the same, so interesting to see how media is going to react to this final stretch. Interesting how Andrew Sharp said he was gonna vote for Donovan MItchell and didn't want to use this stretch as part of the argument. Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing how these guys close out the season.

To be clear, as the one who was heavily in the conversation for ROTY since the beginning, I think Simmons has the edge and odds show he is favored to win, but they've made it fun and interesting and I could see this final stretch playing a part in voting.

If Simmons excels, I can see that just closing the deal and making it easier to vote that way. If he struggles and the Mitchell and the Jazz finish strong then who knows!!

I don't feel like i should have to say it again, but at the end of the day, the actual award doesn't really matter. These two guys are so freaking awesome and fun to watch and their franchises are blessed to have em for the next decade (hopefully!) or so.

[Litany]

Oh and before Sixers fans want to crucify Andrew Sharp or call him an idiot, or say he doesn't know what he's talking about he wisely voted for Embiid (first place vote) and Saric (second place vote) for ROTY last year with Brogdon his third place vote.

Embiid "didn't play in enough games" according to some voters criteria, but I thought that was cool he ignored that and voted for Embiid anyway.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/06/2016-17-Kia-NBA-Rookie-of-the-Year-1.pdf

[Litany]

For the stat lovers, it's pretty sweet to see Mitchell in this group.

Included Points, Rebounds, Assists, and Steals. Only 6 guys have ever had above 20.2 points, 3.6 rebounds, 3.6 assists, and 1.5 steals in their rookie season. The list, ordered by TS% (just cus lots of us peeps like TS% to demonstrate efficiency).

1. TS% 59.2 - Michael Jordan
2. TS% 53.9 - Donovan Mitchell
3. TS% 53.8 - Larry Bird
4. TS% 51.3 - Allen Iverson
5. TS% 50.3 - Ron Harper
6. TS% 48.8 - LeBron James

http://bkref.com/tiny/leHts

[PLO]

Andrew Sharp is a well-known Sixers troll, he's had quite a bit to do with the Rights to Ricky Sanchez guys (well-known Sixers podcast) and there's been a lot of back and forth between the two parties over the years, most of it good natured.

Having said that I'm looking forward to the day this vote is over and done with. Sisyphus would be proud of the interminability. I'm half hoping its a split vote because if it isn't this wretched debate will continue on on these boards for years yet.

[QPR]

Oh and before Sixers fans want to crucify Andrew Sharp or call him an idiot, or say he doesn't know what he's talking about he wisely voted for Embiid (first place vote) and Saric (second place vote) for ROTY last year with Brogdon his third place vote.

Embiid "didn't play in enough games" according to some voters criteria, but I thought that was cool he ignored that and voted for Embiid anyway.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/06/2016-17-Kia-NBA-Rookie-of-the-Year-1.pdf

Take a break from this thread dude.

[EmperorLocky]

Barkley, Shaq and others make their pick for ROTY, yeeahhh Donovan, you go boy

Watch on YouTube

No surprise they dont like simmons. He's Australian. Cant have a foreigner winning.

Ith a conthpirathy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't be that they just love Mitchell and think he's got game and could be deserving of the award...has to be they hate foreigners

"They're not from America. **** them!" ~ Charles Barkley

At 2:50 mark in video.

Watch on YouTube

[gags1288]

Ho hum, another 3 quarter triple double for Ben Simmons.

[cksdayoff]

ben simmons 13 points, 12 rebounds, 11 assists with 5 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter