The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

QPR · Post #2481 » by **QPR** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:07 am

Dez wrote:Now I assume people have come to their senses and realised that Simmons is the only choice for ROTY?

I genuinely think he needs to score more for people to stop putting Mitchell side by side with him.

HotelVitale · Post #2482 » by **HotelVitale** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:27 am

nolang1 wrote:
mediocrityrules wrote: He definitely doesn't look like he'll be a bust, but i haven't seen enough yet to see him as an all-star.
18 points, 12 assists, 7 rebounds, 2 steals per 36 since he's come back.

Those #s don't tell the real story, they're just weird small sample size things. If you watched the Nuggets game, almost all of those assists were pretty ugly and he hasn't looked comfortable or shown very good judgment passing the ball yet (though it should be a key tool for him down the line). He's also shooting like 35% which, combined with shooting zero 3s and 4 FTs, means he has no business shooting enough to score 18pts per 36. He showed better shot selection tonight, first two games he was pretty shamelessly chucking. He also had 1 rebound and 0 assists in 19 minutes tonight, which won't happen much but does counter the inflated #s from the first couple of games.

He's looked good at finishing, decent at driving, and very comfortable using his size and handle. But he still doesn't have a first step or explosion that will let him blow past many players, so he's going to have to have that full arsenal of pull-ups and stepbacks back to be anything worth talking about. Size is good, passing is solid, driving into traffic is nice, but none of that moves any needles without the shot falling from all over.

HotelVitale · Post #2483 » by **HotelVitale** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:42 am

QPR wrote:
Dez wrote:Now I assume people have come to their senses and realised that Simmons is the only choice for ROTY?
I genuinely think he needs to score more for people to stop putting Mitchell side by side with him.

He's at about 15.5 ppg at like 59% TS the last three months, not like he's not scoring. And this last month he's scoring a little less but is a few rebounds away from averaging a triple-double (despite playing 32mpg since the Sixers have had a bunch of blow outs), and his asst:TO has been ridiculous the last couple months--it's nearly 4:1 this month. Rookies have no business posting lines like that and that, combined with Mitchell's waning efficiency, should be enough to separate him from the pack.

Post #2484 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:28 am

Watch on YouTube

LoveTheNBA23 · Post #2485 » by **LoveTheNBA23** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:52 am

Kuz - 27, 12, 6, 2 steals. Brought them back in the 4th to send it into OT.

QPR · Post #2486 » by **QPR** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:59 am

HotelVitale wrote:
QPR wrote:
Dez wrote:Now I assume people have come to their senses and realised that Simmons is the only choice for ROTY?
I genuinely think he needs to score more for people to stop putting Mitchell side by side with him.

He's at about 15.5 ppg at like 59% TS the last three months, not like he's not scoring. And this last month he's scoring a little less but is a few rebounds away from averaging a triple-double (despite playing 32mpg since the Sixers have had a bunch of blow outs), and his asst:TO has been ridiculous the last couple months--it's nearly 4:1 this month. Rookies have no business posting lines like that and that, combined with Mitchell's waning efficiency, should be enough to separate him from the pack.

I think SImmons is quite clearly ROTY and has been all season, but there's no doubt that people get seduced by points.

Alatan · Post #2487 » by **Alatan** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:19 am

QPR wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
QPR wrote: I genuinely think he needs to score more for people to stop putting Mitchell side by side with him.

He's at about 15.5 ppg at like 59% TS the last three months, not like he's not scoring. And this last month he's scoring a little less but is a few rebounds away from averaging a triple-double (despite playing 32mpg since the Sixers have had a bunch of blow outs), and his asst:TO has been ridiculous the last couple months--it's nearly 4:1 this month. Rookies have no business posting lines like that and that, combined with Mitchell's waning efficiency, should be enough to separate him from the pack.

I think SImmons is quite clearly ROTY and has been all season, but there's no doubt that people get seduced by points.

People are not seduced by points but by Mithcells all around game and versatility.

Post #2488 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:26 pm

After last game Simmons became just the 13th player with at least a 4.0 VORP in his rookie season.

eyeatoma · Post #2489 » by **eyeatoma** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:17 pm

Wow that is elite territory!! Who the hell is Alvan Adams?

Post #2490 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:21 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Wow that is elite territory!! Who the hell is Alvan Adams?

He’s in a lot of the all time great rookie seasons lists. He was an All-Star as a rookie and lead the Suns to the Championship before losing to the Celtics 4-2.

nurseryc · Post #2491 » by **nurseryc** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:04 pm

Alatan wrote:
QPR wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
He's at about 15.5 ppg at like 59% TS the last three months, not like he's not scoring. And this last month he's scoring a little less but is a few rebounds away from averaging a triple-double (despite playing 32mpg since the Sixers have had a bunch of blow outs), and his asst:TO has been ridiculous the last couple months--it's nearly 4:1 this month. Rookies have no business posting lines like that and that, combined with Mitchell's waning efficiency, should be enough to separate him from the pack.

I think SImmons is quite clearly ROTY and has been all season, but there's no doubt that people get seduced by points.

People are not seduced by points but by Mithcells all around game and versatility.

What a load of crap lol.

Black Mage · Post #2492 » by **Black Mage** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:24 pm

Alatan wrote:
QPR wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
He's at about 15.5 ppg at like 59% TS the last three months, not like he's not scoring. And this last month he's scoring a little less but is a few rebounds away from averaging a triple-double (despite playing 32mpg since the Sixers have had a bunch of blow outs), and his asst:TO has been ridiculous the last couple months--it's nearly 4:1 this month. Rookies have no business posting lines like that and that, combined with Mitchell's waning efficiency, should be enough to separate him from the pack.

I think SImmons is quite clearly ROTY and has been all season, but there's no doubt that people get seduced by points.

People are not seduced by points but by Mithcells all around game and versatility.

So since Simmons' boards and assists are double Mitchell's that means he has double the all around game.

Also, since he guards twice as many positions, 1 thru 4, that means he has double the versatility.

Therefore, logically, Simmons is twice the rookie DM is, right?

I mean there is nothing DM does that would seduce people that Simmons doesn't do twice as well. Right?

This is of course all said tongue in cheek... mostly.

commentatorer · Post #2493 » by **commentatorer** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:33 pm

EmperorLocky wrote:
Lattimer wrote:
downtownpie wrote:

No surprise they dont like simmons. He's Australian. Cant have a foreigner winning.

Ith a conthpirathy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't be that they just love Mitchell and think he's got game and could be deserving of the award...has to be they hate foreigners

"They're not from America. **** them!" ~ Charles Barkley

At 2:50 mark in video.

Watch on YouTube

Barkley definitely has the most fun on-court personality in the history of basketball, despite the fact that its built on anger.
Shane Heal is an entertaining version of Curry, and I remember Heal hit 5 threes in one quarter for the Twolves.
Heal has the best-looking shooting action maybe ever, Curry the worst.
I knew Andrew Gaze was a genius at basketball but he's also a genius at breaking up fights, incredible calming influence on Malone and Barkley.

Alatan · Post #2494 » by **Alatan** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:55 pm

Black Mage wrote:
Alatan wrote:
QPR wrote:
I think SImmons is quite clearly ROTY and has been all season, but there's no doubt that people get seduced by points.

People are not seduced by points but by Mithcells all around game and versatility.

So since Simmons' boards and assists are double Mitchell's that means he has double the all around game.

Also, since he guards twice as many positions, 1 thru 4, that means he has double the versatility.

Therefore, logically, Simmons is twice the rookie DM is, right?

I mean there is nothing DM does that would seduce people that Simmons doesn't do twice as well. Right?

This is of course all said tongue in cheek... mostly.

Mitchell is better at playing off ball and creating his own offense while that is a weakness of Simmons. Simmons is a better rebounder and playmaker but its not like Mithcell sucks at it. You people are fascinated with Simmons stats but they as much a product of his major role in the Sixers system as they are of his talent.

There is no area that Mitchell is not at least average at while Simmons has a big weakness. Simmons is a good played but Mitchell is better and will be even more better in the future.

XtremeDunkz · Post #2495 » by **XtremeDunkz** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:56 pm

Alatan wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Alatan wrote:
People are not seduced by points but by Mithcells all around game and versatility.

So since Simmons' boards and assists are double Mitchell's that means he has double the all around game.

Also, since he guards twice as many positions, 1 thru 4, that means he has double the versatility.

Therefore, logically, Simmons is twice the rookie DM is, right?

I mean there is nothing DM does that would seduce people that Simmons doesn't do twice as well. Right?

This is of course all said tongue in cheek... mostly.

Mitchell is better at playing off ball and creating his own offense while that is a weakness of Simmons. Simmons is a better rebounder and playmaker but its not like Mithcell sucks at it. You people are fascinated with Simmons stats but they as much a product of his major role in the Sixers system as they are of his talent.

There is no area that Mitchell is not at least average at while Simmons has a big weakness. Simmons is a good played but Mitchell is better and will be even more better in the future.

Oh man this is just good stuff all around :crazy:

Sphynx · Post #2496 » by **Sphynx** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:02 pm

Simmons is the point god. Never thought I'd see another Magic, but he's that good.

He's legit been sat for final qtrs for most of the past month and he's playing the best he's played all year, notching up triple doubles.

His assist numbers since the break are nuts. Crazy in hindsight that he didn't make the All-Star team.

Will he make the NBA all-defensive team? he guards every position and he's statistically one of the best defenders in the league overall. Averages the same number of steals as Chris Paul and still averages 1 block a game.....

I wouldn't want to play Philly in the playoffs, especially now Fultz is starting to hit his groove and can run their second team, which was their biggest weakness'.

Dame Lizard · Post #2497 » by **Dame Lizard** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:10 pm

Alatan wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
Alatan wrote:
People are not seduced by points but by Mithcells all around game and versatility.

So since Simmons' boards and assists are double Mitchell's that means he has double the all around game.

Also, since he guards twice as many positions, 1 thru 4, that means he has double the versatility.

Therefore, logically, Simmons is twice the rookie DM is, right?

I mean there is nothing DM does that would seduce people that Simmons doesn't do twice as well. Right?

This is of course all said tongue in cheek... mostly.

Mitchell is better at playing off ball and creating his own offense while that is a weakness of Simmons. Simmons is a better rebounder and playmaker but its not like Mithcell sucks at it. You people are fascinated with Simmons stats but they as much a product of his major role in the Sixers system as they are of his talent.

There is no area that Mitchell is not at least average at while Simmons has a big weakness. Simmons is a good played but Mitchell is better and will be even more better in the future.

Donovan Mitchell doesn't have any glaring weakness, while on the other hand- Simmons does. So you're right on that.

However, what Simmons excels at- it isn't as if he's just really good- it's that he could well be historically good. Simmons > Mitchell

If Mitchell wins it, then I'll be suspicious of a USA player advantage.

Alatan · Post #2498 » by **Alatan** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:11 pm

XtremeDunkz wrote:
Alatan wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
So since Simmons' boards and assists are double Mitchell's that means he has double the all around game.

Also, since he guards twice as many positions, 1 thru 4, that means he has double the versatility.

Therefore, logically, Simmons is twice the rookie DM is, right?

I mean there is nothing DM does that would seduce people that Simmons doesn't do twice as well. Right?

This is of course all said tongue in cheek... mostly.

Mitchell is better at playing off ball and creating his own offense while that is a weakness of Simmons. Simmons is a better rebounder and playmaker but its not like Mithcell sucks at it. You people are fascinated with Simmons stats but they as much a product of his major role in the Sixers system as they are of his talent.

There is no area that Mitchell is not at least average at while Simmons has a big weakness. Simmons is a good played but Mitchell is better and will be even more better in the future.

Oh man this is just good stuff all around

Yeah, sure.
Arguments for Simmons include :
His rebounds that fluff his DRPM. Only 27 % are contested meaning they in larg part a product of his role on rebounding.
His assist numbers are high partly due him having the ball on almost every possession and being a pass 1st guy. Most PG with as much time with the ball while being surrounded by shooters can get you 8 assists per game as a pass 1st guy.
His FG% is high because he has a low scoring load, plays off of the gravity of Embiid and all of the shooters. Having all of those shooters is possible because of Embiids, Cowingtons and Simmons good defense. Remove Embiid or Cowington and the defense would start collapsing.

You cant compare stats in a vacuum because players dont get them in a vacuum. This aint fantasy where bigger stats mean better player.

Post #2499 » by **Stanford** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:25 pm

Sphynx wrote:He's legit been sat for final qtrs for most of the past month.

I'm glad you brought this up. If the sixers were involved in close games during this winning streak, his numbers would be a lot higher. He would likely have a triple double in every game.

Mitchell is having a great rookie season, but Simmons is playing elite level basketball.

LordCovington33 · Post #2500 » by **LordCovington33** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:26 pm

XtremeDunkz wrote:
Alatan wrote:
Black Mage wrote:
So since Simmons' boards and assists are double Mitchell's that means he has double the all around game.

Also, since he guards twice as many positions, 1 thru 4, that means he has double the versatility.

Therefore, logically, Simmons is twice the rookie DM is, right?

I mean there is nothing DM does that would seduce people that Simmons doesn't do twice as well. Right?

This is of course all said tongue in cheek... mostly.

Mitchell is better at playing off ball and creating his own offense while that is a weakness of Simmons. Simmons is a better rebounder and playmaker but its not like Mithcell sucks at it. You people are fascinated with Simmons stats but they as much a product of his major role in the Sixers system as they are of his talent.

There is no area that Mitchell is not at least average at while Simmons has a big weakness. Simmons is a good played but Mitchell is better and will be even more better in the future.

Oh man this is just good stuff all around

The guy has disliked Simmons since Oct (maybe earlier), so best to keep that in mind when reading. There is a history to back this up. Example: "Honestly id take Hernangomez over Simmons right now and i doubt that it will change. The guy screams bust to me same as Lonzo Ball."
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1621133&hilit=Nuggets+sixers+future&start=20#start_here

Who wins? (May select 2 options.)