2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3)

[ROA]

TLDR MPJ is not Jokic 2nd best teammate or a max player (yet). AG is #2 and MPJ makes 6 million this season, not "max"

Jamal Murray is his 2nd best teammate. MPJ is clear his 3rd options and that doesnt meaning he is better player than AG (AG is much better defender, MPJ is dominant scorer with 40+% from deep).

I believe Gordon is obviously superior to MPJ and Barton imo is too.

If you can say that for Barton, I'm pretty sure that you are not watch Denver games for last 7 years.

[Sgt Major]

When will the league announce the winner?

[Wolfgang630]

Will Barton is better than MPJ. Yuck

[AleksandarN]

Extremely disingiuous to me people are saying Jokic is missing his "top two" teammates. I believe Gordon is obviously superior to MPJ and Barton imo is too. I think even Morris has a case over MPJ.

MPJ is awful on defense and mostly just a shooter on offense.

It is also very disingiuous that Jokic is seen as missing TWO max players. MPJ is making 6 million this year and Denver has a team salary less than 700k from the tax line. MPJ is not a "max" player in regarded to Denver's team construction this season and shows bias or ignorance when people use this clearly false statement.

TLDR MPJ is not Jokic 2nd best teammate or a max player (yet). AG is #2 and MPJ makes 6 million this season, not "max"

Morris is a terrible defender. His perimeter defence is not good. Also Denver as a team lost 360 games due to injury so it’s not just the top two guys. Every injury after Murray and MPJ is worse as the rotation gets thinner and thinner

[eathb_au]

Extremely disingiuous to me people are saying Jokic is missing his "top two" teammates. I believe Gordon is obviously superior to MPJ and Barton imo is too. I think even Morris has a case over MPJ.

MPJ is awful on defense and mostly just a shooter on offense.

It is also very disingiuous that Jokic is seen as missing TWO max players. MPJ is making 6 million this year and Denver has a team salary less than 700k from the tax line. MPJ is not a "max" player in regarded to Denver's team construction this season and shows bias or ignorance when people use this clearly false statement.

TLDR MPJ is not Jokic 2nd best teammate or a max player (yet). AG is #2 and MPJ makes 6 million this season, not "max"

Ah one of those who get fooled by Jokic making his current teammates way better than they actually are and thinking Jokic has a nice supporting cast (and indirectly praising Jokic as a result)

[eathb_au]

That said Jokic has taken a huge lead in the awards tracker spreadsheet

[GSP]

Jokic 40 point games in his career - 11

Embiid 40 point games this season - 13

Jokic can’t hold Embiids jock strap when it comes to scoring.

What if Jokic was also reffed like he was a little girl? Can we see their breakdowns with free throws?

[Sgt Major]

Kendrick Perkins has a vote???

[Roddy B for 3]

Will Barton is better than MPJ. Yuck

Defense at PF is extremely important and MPJ is a stiff. He's a monster shooter who can shoot over everyone and can make straight line drives against imbalanced defenses. He's a very valuable offensive player but is an atrotious defender at PF, which is much more difficult to cover up than guard positions.

And fwiw to the multiple people referencing me, I have Jokic #2 in the NBA and wanted Dallas to trade for him with the pick that turned into DSJ since Jokic was sharing minutes with Nurkic.

I have it Giannis>Jokic>Embiid>Luka

No disrespect to Jokic. Alot of disrespect to MPJ. Just an awful awful defensive player.

[Roddy B for 3]

Extremely disingiuous to me people are saying Jokic is missing his "top two" teammates. I believe Gordon is obviously superior to MPJ and Barton imo is too. I think even Morris has a case over MPJ.

MPJ is awful on defense and mostly just a shooter on offense.

It is also very disingiuous that Jokic is seen as missing TWO max players. MPJ is making 6 million this year and Denver has a team salary less than 700k from the tax line. MPJ is not a "max" player in regarded to Denver's team construction this season and shows bias or ignorance when people use this clearly false statement.

TLDR MPJ is not Jokic 2nd best teammate or a max player (yet). AG is #2 and MPJ makes 6 million this season, not "max"

Ah one of those who get fooled by Jokic making his current teammates way better than they actually are and thinking Jokic has a nice supporting cast (and indirectly praising Jokic as a result)

Me not liking MPJ is somehow me underating Jokic via overrating Barton and Morris?

I think MPJ is very difficult to win with because he has some of the slowest defensive lateral quickness in the league.

And I have Jokic #2 best player in the league behind Giannis.

Jokic is the best passer in the league, an unstoppable scorer, a monster rebounder, and at his best is a great defender. Giannis is legitimately a DPOY type guy an old is a hyper elite scorer who is a good playmaker too.

I have it Giannis>Jokic>Embiid>Luka (Durant, Steph, Leonard, LBJ can be in the mix but miss to many games)

[Wolfgang630]

Kendrick Perkins has a vote???

Yes

[Johnny Firpo]

When will the league announce the winner?

It's gonna be a while, but we'll know it long before that.

[Richard Miller]

Me not liking MPJ is somehow me underating Jokic via overrating Barton and Morris?

Like him or not, fact is MPJ last year was averaging 19/7 and no one currently on the Nuggets is close to that (the closest is Gordon with 15/6).

Moreover, the fact that gets overlooked is Nuggets also lost PJ Dozier who was supposed to be one of the better defenders and the first guy off the bench (averaged around 20 minutes last season), and also a lot of games from other two wings (Zeke, Cancar) who also would've contributed etc.

[Roddy B for 3]

Me not liking MPJ is somehow me underating Jokic via overrating Barton and Morris?

Like him or not, fact is MPJ last year was averaging 19/7 and no one currently on the Nuggets is close to that (the closest is Gordon with 15/6).

Moreover, the fact that gets overlooked is Nuggets also lost PJ Dozier who was supposed to be one of the better defenders and the first guy off the bench (averaged around 20 minutes last season), and also a lot of games from other two wings (Zeke, Cancar) who also would've contributed etc.

19/7 vs 15/6 one is a great defender the other an awful defender

I think AG > MPJ

Notion Jokic is missing his two best teammates is false, notion that Jokic is missing two max players is false (MPJ is worth 6mil of Denver's 137mil cap, hardly a max player)

If you think MPJ is better than Gordon you can say you think Jokic is missing his two best teammates, but MPJ over AG is a bad take imo.

Missing two max teammates is just false.

These are both mainstream arguments I've heard to give Jokic credit. Zach Lowe has been the loudest saying these,that I've heard.

Once again I think Jokic is #2 player in the NBA. I'm not hating on Jokic.

[nomansland]

Me not liking MPJ is somehow me underating Jokic via overrating Barton and Morris?

Like him or not, fact is MPJ last year was averaging 19/7 and no one currently on the Nuggets is close to that (the closest is Gordon with 15/6).

Moreover, the fact that gets overlooked is Nuggets also lost PJ Dozier who was supposed to be one of the better defenders and the first guy off the bench (averaged around 20 minutes last season), and also a lot of games from other two wings (Zeke, Cancar) who also would've contributed etc.

His defense was improving as well. You could see it on the court and DBPM and DWS stats back that up. And we know he's a hard worker with a good attitude who wants to improve all aspects of his game. Malone loves his work ethic.

To say that Barton and Morris are better players is absurd. They should be bench players (pretty good ones, but still bench players) while Porter is a legit starter for almost any team.

[Roddy B for 3]

Me not liking MPJ is somehow me underating Jokic via overrating Barton and Morris?

Like him or not, fact is MPJ last year was averaging 19/7 and no one currently on the Nuggets is close to that (the closest is Gordon with 15/6).

Moreover, the fact that gets overlooked is Nuggets also lost PJ Dozier who was supposed to be one of the better defenders and the first guy off the bench (averaged around 20 minutes last season), and also a lot of games from other two wings (Zeke, Cancar) who also would've contributed etc.

His defense was improving as well. You could see it on the court and DBPM and DWS stats back that up. And we know he's a hard worker with a good attitude who wants to improve all aspects of his game. Malone loves his work ethic.

To say that Barton and Morris are better players is absurd. They should be bench players (pretty good ones, but still bench players) while Porter is a legit starter for almost any team.

Morris is probably like #25-#35 among PG's. Barton is like a below average starting SG or high level backup. MPJ is a turnstile on defense. The player type of all offense no defense at the PF position is extremely difficult for me to be a fan of. Having Barton at SG or Morris at PG dose not imo sabotage your offense or your defense. Having MPJ at PF sabatoges your defense imo.

[Richard Miller]

Having Barton at SG or Morris at PG dose not imo sabotage your offense or your defense.

Barton played a lot at SF as well. And your pg not being remotely capable of defending Steph/CP13/other elite pgs does not sabotage the defense, seriously?

[maxwellcu]

This thread takes some wild turns and detours but I think that were now debating the relative merits of MPJ vs Will the Thrill kind of sums things up. Grasping at straws .

[nomansland]

Like him or not, fact is MPJ last year was averaging 19/7 and no one currently on the Nuggets is close to that (the closest is Gordon with 15/6).

Moreover, the fact that gets overlooked is Nuggets also lost PJ Dozier who was supposed to be one of the better defenders and the first guy off the bench (averaged around 20 minutes last season), and also a lot of games from other two wings (Zeke, Cancar) who also would've contributed etc.

His defense was improving as well. You could see it on the court and DBPM and DWS stats back that up. And we know he's a hard worker with a good attitude who wants to improve all aspects of his game. Malone loves his work ethic.

To say that Barton and Morris are better players is absurd. They should be bench players (pretty good ones, but still bench players) while Porter is a legit starter for almost any team.

Morris is probably like #25-#35 among PG's. Barton is like a below average starting SG or high level backup. MPJ is a turnstile on defense. The player type of all offense no defense at the PF position is extremely difficult for me to be a fan of. Having Barton at SG or Morris at PG dose not imo sabotage your offense or your defense. Having MPJ at PF sabatoges your defense imo.

Barton absolutely sabotages the offense at times and his defense isn't enough to make up for it. Porter's offensive prowess definitely compensates for his inferior defense (and again, he's still young and improving on D, not a hopeless case).

[losmi]

We could argue who is the 3rd best player, but Nuggets still have 6th best offense in the league this season despite missing a 21.2 ppg on .592 TS% player and a 19.0 ppg on .663 TS% player (stats from the last season). That's 40ppg on elite shooting. Most teams would just collapse.