Seed the West

[Nuggets_Talk]

Ok genius which players are you suggesting were crap on another team ?

no, no...just that odom from the mavs perspective sucks and deadweight that they dropped, but odom from teh clippers is a great pickup. its fascinating.

its like a head on collision between two amazing homers. i cant turn away.

[Trader_Joe]

Reseeding with recent moves...

1. LAL - Still think they coast with Nash, Kobe and Bynum taking over and maybe Dwight.
2. OKC - Will be close, but I didn't see much improvement relative to other teams like LA.
3. LAC - The bench should carry them to many regular season wins.
4. SAS - Just have a feeling this year is the year...but they might make it up in the playoffs
5. MEM - They stayed pretty much the same, which might work for them.
6. DEN - See Memphis
7. MIN - I think they fight for 2nd in the NW with DEN until the end, but Denver is too deep.
8. DAL - Dirk could carry most teams to the playoffs, but it will be tough this year

9. GSW - The year they finally get it together happens to come when the West is 10+ deep.
10. UTA - Addressed needs yes, but with rather lateral movement talent wise.
11. PHO - It's in their best interest to get a good pick anyway, but good effort
12. SAC - Each year they seem ready to turn the corner.. and we pull for them.
13. POR - Knowing their luck it will be a long season.. which could pay off with more talent.
14. NOH - Growing pains with better things on the horizon
15. HOU - unless they land a star go for the top pick.

[Moonbeam]

Here is the average seed for each team after 94 (!) lists:

1. Oklahoma City: 1.33
2. Los Angeles Lakers: 2.32
3. San Antonio Spurs: 2.90
4. Los Angeles Clippers: 4.19
5. Memphis Grizzlies: 5.60
6. Denver Nuggets: 6.31
7. Dallas Mavericks: 7.13
8. Minnesota Timberwolves: 8.19
9. Utah Jazz: 9.90
10. Golden State Warriors: 10.28
11. Portland Trailblazers: 11.88
12. Phoenix Suns: 11.89
13. New Orleans Hornets: 12.49
14. Sacramento Kings: 12.78
15. Houston Rockets: 12.85

[HotrodBeaubois]

I think their team is worse this season than last season. At the very least, the team is newly formed together, and will need a significant portion of the season to gel.

Collison>>>>>40 Year old Kidd
Mayo<<<<<<Terry ( not by much and Mayo has the potential and youth to be better than Terry last year
Brand>>>>>Odom ( Not even close here )
Kaman>>>>Deadwood ( Same as above )
Dahnty>>>>Azubuike
Crowder>>>>Cardinal
Brand>>>>>>Mahinmi ( Brand will be a better backup Center than Mahinmi )
James----Yi ( Who knows but James looked solid in summer league )
Plus 1st Rd Pick Cunningham

The Mavs got alot better !! The only people that think they will miss the playoffs do not watch Maverick Basketball.

Hell Collison/Mayo/Dahnty/Brand/Kaman plus scrubs is a playoff Team in the East !!! Now you throw in West/Roddy/Carter/Marion/Dirk/Wright/Cunningham/Crowder/James/Dojo and you a 4-6 Seed in the West .

I don't know man, I'm looking at Basketball Reference and it doesn't seem to agree. Collison is pretty similar in production to Kidd. Kaman was really inefficient and high usage. So let's call that one a push. Mayo-Terry seems to be a push to me. Brand may actually be your biggest upgrade. You may be right about the guys on the bottom of the roster, but that's not where big changes in wins come from.
While for a team like Minnesota, they replaced Wes Johnson who was totally worthless with AK 47 who's above average. And even if he gets hurt, Budinger is average so that's still a giant step forward. Anyway, I go with:

1-OKC
2-SA
3-LAL
4-LAC
5-MEM
6-MN
7-DEN
8-DAL
9-UT
10-GS
11-POR
12-NOH
13-PHO
14-SAC
15-HOU

Kidd-28.7 MPG 6.2 PPG 5.5 APG .363 FG% .354 3P%

Collison-31.3 MPG 10.3 PPG 4.8 APG .440 FG% .362 3P%

Haywood-21.2 MPG 5.2 PPG 6.0 RPG 1.0 BPG .518 FG% .469 FT%

Kaman-29.2 MPG 13.1 PPG 7.7 RPG 1.6 BPG .446 FG% .785 FT%

You can't be serious in suggesting that A 40 year old Kidd is better than Collison . And Brick hands Deadwood is better than Kaman ?

The only reason Kaman is less efficient than Haywood is because he takes more outside shots .

Kidd will average around 20 MPG this year . The same for Deadwood . 

Collison and Kaman will average around 30-32 MPG this year. 

Now even if there stats were close to the same Collison and Kaman will be better for this team since they will be able to stay on the floor unlike Senior citizen Kidd and I can't make a free throw Deadwood.

[HotrodBeaubois]

Ok genius which players are you suggesting were crap on another team ?

no, no...just that odom from the mavs perspective sucks and deadweight that they dropped, but odom from teh clippers is a great pickup. its fascinating.

its like a head on collision between two amazing homers. i cant turn away.

Who knows maybe Odom is motivated back in LA . But he was flat-out worthless in Dallas and replacing him with Brand is HUGE!!

[Nuggets_Talk]

Here is the average seed for each team after 94 (!) lists:

1. Oklahoma City: 1.33
2. Los Angeles Lakers: 2.32
3. San Antonio Spurs: 2.90
4. Los Angeles Clippers: 4.19
5. Memphis Grizzlies: 5.60
6. Denver Nuggets: 6.31
7. Dallas Mavericks: 7.13
8. Minnesota Timberwolves: 8.19
9. Utah Jazz: 9.90
10. Golden State Warriors: 10.28
11. Portland Trailblazers: 11.88
12. Phoenix Suns: 11.89
13. New Orleans Hornets: 12.49
14. Sacramento Kings: 12.78
15. Houston Rockets: 12.85

wow nicely done.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Ok genius which players are you suggesting were crap on another team ?

no, no...just that odom from the mavs perspective sucks and deadweight that they dropped, but odom from teh clippers is a great pickup. its fascinating.

its like a head on collision between two amazing homers. i cant turn away.

Who knows maybe Odom is motivated back in LA . But he was flat-out worthless in Dallas and replacing him with Brand is HUGE!!

of course. brand now wears a mavs jersey.

i catch on quick.

[HotrodBeaubois]

You take Jason Terry over Juice Mayo '

Terry averaged 15/2/4 with the Mavs.

I'll prefer to have Mayo, i'll take him run and laugh.

Mayo averaged 12/3/2.5 with the Grizz. How are those stats helping your case?

Terry
17.1 Pts per 36
  2.7 Rebs per 36
  4.1 Asts per 36

Mayo
16.9 Pts per 36
  4.3 Rebs per 36
  3.5 Asts per 36

[Gobble]

Kidd-28.7 MPG 6.2 PPG 5.5 APG .363 FG% .354 3P%

Collison-31.3 MPG 10.3 PPG 4.8 APG .440 FG% .362 3P%

Haywood-21.2 MPG 5.2 PPG 6.0 RPG 1.0 BPG .518 FG% .469 FT%

Kaman-29.2 MPG 13.1 PPG 7.7 RPG 1.6 BPG .446 FG% .785 FT%

You can't be serious in suggesting that A 40 year old Kidd is better than Collison . And Brick hands Deadwood is better than Kaman ?

The only reason Kaman is less efficient than Haywood is because he takes more outside shots .

Kidd will average around 20 MPG this year . The same for Deadwood . 

Collison and Kaman will average around 30-32 MPG this year. 

Now even if there stats were close to the same Collison and Kaman will be better for this team since they will be able to stay on the floor unlike Senior citizen Kidd and I can't make a free throw Deadwood.

There are definitely people on this board more qualified to talk about this than I am, but I'll give it a try. Ignoring the compilation stats (WS/48, PER) which have Collison and Kidd basically even last year and Haywood way in front of Kaman, the thing that matters isn't the total numbers you've listed, it's the way guys get them. Haywood got his numbers on a 12.8 USG%. Kaman needed 26.6%. That means for Kaman to compile those total numbers, he needed plays run for him twice as much. But he doesn't produce enough with those plays to help his team. His eFG% and TS% are Darko-level anemic (much worse than Haywood's). The Mavs definitely won't benefit from having Kaman cannibalize Nowitzki's touches.

Collison-Kidd is nowhere near as bad, because they're fairly comparable in terms of production. But again, Kidd is a lower usage player, which is good for a role player. He gets his numbers more efficiently, and that's why even though Collison has higher totals, Kidd more than holds his own on the rate stats.

[HotrodBeaubois]

no, no...just that odom from the mavs perspective sucks and deadweight that they dropped, but odom from teh clippers is a great pickup. its fascinating.

its like a head on collision between two amazing homers. i cant turn away.

Who knows maybe Odom is motivated back in LA . But he was flat-out worthless in Dallas and replacing him with Brand is HUGE!!

of course. brand now wears a mavs jersey.

i catch on quick.

So what Brand sucked worse than Odom last year ?

[spearsy23]

Terry
17.1 Pts per 36
  2.7 Rebs per 36
  4.1 Asts per 36

Mayo
16.9 Pts per 36
  4.3 Rebs per 36
  3.5 Asts per 36

All you're showing me is that Terry still grades out better, plus he's more efficient, though not as good defensively.

Also, you know why Mayo wasn't playing as many minutes, despite being younger?



Hint: he's not that good.

[b-ball forever]

1) OKC
2) Spurs
3) LA Clippers
4) LA Lakers
5) Memphis
6) Nuggets
7) GSW
8) T-Wolves

[Nuggets_Talk]

So what Brand sucked worse than Odom last year ?

oh sorry...i thought the rule was whoever wheres the mavs jersey is going to be better than whoever used to wear the mavs jersey.

[Jaysonw23]

Here is the average seed for each team after 94 (!) lists:

1. Oklahoma City: 1.33
2. Los Angeles Lakers: 2.32
3. San Antonio Spurs: 2.90
4. Los Angeles Clippers: 4.19
5. Memphis Grizzlies: 5.60
6. Denver Nuggets: 6.31
7. Dallas Mavericks: 7.13
8. Minnesota Timberwolves: 8.19
9. Utah Jazz: 9.90
10. Golden State Warriors: 10.28
11. Portland Trailblazers: 11.88
12. Phoenix Suns: 11.89
13. New Orleans Hornets: 12.49
14. Sacramento Kings: 12.78
15. Houston Rockets: 12.85

wow nicely done.

yeah, but it's a little skewed in okc's favor since its only what? 3 or 4 years in the west?

[Moonbeam]

Here is the average seed for each team after 94 (!) lists:

1. Oklahoma City: 1.33
2. Los Angeles Lakers: 2.32
3. San Antonio Spurs: 2.90
4. Los Angeles Clippers: 4.19
5. Memphis Grizzlies: 5.60
6. Denver Nuggets: 6.31
7. Dallas Mavericks: 7.13
8. Minnesota Timberwolves: 8.19
9. Utah Jazz: 9.90
10. Golden State Warriors: 10.28
11. Portland Trailblazers: 11.88
12. Phoenix Suns: 11.89
13. New Orleans Hornets: 12.49
14. Sacramento Kings: 12.78
15. Houston Rockets: 12.85

wow nicely done.

yeah, but it's a little skewed in okc's favor since its only what? 3 or 4 years in the west?

No, this is the average predicted seed for the upcoming 2012-13 season of the 94 lists submitted by users here, not the actual average seed of these teams historically.

[Krapinsky]

LOL @ people predicting the Mavs missing the playoffs. They havent missed the playoffs since the Bill Clinton administration

The Mavs didnt miss POs last season, with a worse team than this season and a lock out shortened schedule...and they arent going to miss POs this next season. The odds are better for Dallas to get a top 4 seed this next season than to miss the playoffs.

I think their team is worse this season than last season. At the very least, the team is newly formed together, and will need a significant portion of the season to gel.

Collison>>>>>40 Year old Kidd
Mayo<<<<<<Terry ( not by much and Mayo has the potential and youth to be better than Terry last year
Brand>>>>>Odom ( Not even close here )
Kaman>>>>Deadwood ( Same as above )
Dahnty>>>>Azubuike
Crowder>>>>Cardinal
Brand>>>>>>Mahinmi ( Brand will be a better backup Center than Mahinmi )
James----Yi ( Who knows but James looked solid in summer league )
Plus 1st Rd Pick Cunningham 

The Mavs got alot better !! The only people that think they will miss the playoffs do not watch Maverick Basketball.

Hell Collison/Mayo/Dahnty/Brand/Kaman plus scrubs is a playoff Team in the East !!! Now you throw in West/Roddy/Carter/Marion/Dirk/Wright/Cunningham/Crowder/James/Dojo and you a 4-6 Seed in the West .

There's something to be said about losing a lot of chemistry from having a wholesale roster turnover.

[TwentyOne920]

That's why people sleep on OKC's/SA's offseason; no major trades or free agent signings, but those teams have great chemistry.

[Catchall]

Well, the Bleacher Report agrees that the Jazz look like a 50-win team. Not sure what that means exactly...

[Nuggets_Talk]

Well, the Bleacher Report agrees that the Jazz look like a 50-win team. Not sure what that means exactly...

bleacher report? means utah should win 30.

[TwentyOne920]

Bleacher Report also argues that the Spurs won't win 50 games this upcoming season.

Then again that site has zero SA homers.