2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 2

[K_chile22]

Lebron is averaging 26 8 9 and leading the best team in the east. Anyone leaving him off your top 3 list shouldn't be taken seriously.

And Kawhi is averaging a more efficient, 25.6 5.9 3.4 while playing elite defense on a 60+ win team where he's the only all All-star (and don't say LMA. He's hasn't been good.)

Harden is averaging a more efficient 29 11 8 on a team with a better record and zero all stars

Westbrook has the whole triple double thing I don't really care for, but since we are using counting stats, 30-10-10 on a weird fitting roster winning more games than they should based on talent level

Maaaaybe Westbrook is the only one you could make an argument over because the record is so much better, but at the same time the Cavs are worse than we thought they'd be this year. That's typically bad for MVP votes.

"More efficient"

Lebron: 53/38/69, 58eFG%, 61%ts, 2.1 assist:turnover (+11.9 on/off)
Kawhi: 49/39/90, 54eFG%, 62%ts, 1.62 assist:turnover (+0.3 on/off)
Harden: 44/35/85, 52eFG%, 61%ts, 1.92 assist:turnover (+3.2 on/off)
Westbrook: 42/34/83, 47eFG%, 54%ts, 1.85 assist:turnover (+16.0 on/off)

There is literally no way possible that you can say that Kawhi or Harden are "more efficient" than LeBron.

I was talking about scoring and Harden and Kawhi have higher TS, though the difference between Harden and LeBron so small it can be negligible.

[K_chile22]

Boosting players for having a bad bench or bringing them down for having a good one is not how on/off is supposed to work. It's a data point, not the end all be all.

Totally agreed. But Kawhi isn't exactly "carrying scrubs" - as the other user proclaimed - considering his team is a +8.9 NetRtg without him on the floor. Unless he somehow manages to carry them while not being on the court...

I think their starting lineup is a lot worse than people realize, but their bench is fantastic, so he is penalized for playing with TP, a completly flat at times, LMA, and Pau Gasol in on off stuff

[The-Power]

Boosting players for having a bad bench or bringing them down for having a good one is not how on/off is supposed to work. It's a data point, not the end all be all.

Totally agreed. But Kawhi isn't exactly "carrying scrubs" - as the other user proclaimed - considering his team is a +8.9 NetRtg without him on the floor. Unless he somehow manages to carry them while not being on the court...

I think their starting lineup is a lot worse than people realize, but their bench is fantastic, so he is penalized for playing with TP, a completly flat at times, LMA, and Pau Gasol in on off stuff

I don't think much of their starting five outside of Leonard either. But he's still not carrying scrubs to the current Spurs' record as they at least have some great depth on the bench which generates a lot of wins.

[bstein14]

If Isiah Thomas leads the league in scoring and his team finishes first in the East the MVP is his.... Can't ever recall a player leading the league in scoring and being the best team in their conference and #1 seed going into the playoffs and not winning MVP.

[K_chile22]

If Isiah Thomas leads the league in scoring and his team finishes first in the East the MVP is his.... Can't ever recall a player leading the league in scoring and being the best team in their conference and #1 seed going into the playoffs and not winning MVP.

If they got the 1 seed they'd likely still have a worse record that Houston and San Antonio.

[PeptoKlepto]

If Isiah Thomas leads the league in scoring and his team finishes first in the East the MVP is his.... Can't ever recall a player leading the league in scoring and being the best team in their conference and #1 seed going into the playoffs and not winning MVP.

There are about 7 people ahead of Thomas right about now.

[inquisitive]

I think the reason why Kawhi isn't talked much about for MVP is that he is likely a lock for the DPOY award. It is unfair, but seems like what the media is going about it. Hakeem Olajuwon was the last player i believe to win both MVP and DPOY in the same year. That was a long time ago.

[Bergmaniac]

I think the reason why Kawhi isn't talked much about for MVP is that he is likely a lock for the DPOY award. It is unfair, but seems like what the media is going about it. Hakeem Olajuwon was the last player i believe to win both MVP and DPOY in the same year. That was a long time ago.

But he is not a lock for DPOY at all this year. His defensive stats aren't as good as in previous years and Draymond and Gobert have been sensational on that end.

[PeptoKlepto]

I think the reason why Kawhi isn't talked much about for MVP is that he is likely a lock for the DPOY award. It is unfair, but seems like what the media is going about it. Hakeem Olajuwon was the last player i believe to win both MVP and DPOY in the same year. That was a long time ago.

Why is Kawhi a lock for DPOY? There are numerous players that have been better defensively. Draymond and Gobert to name a couple.

[bmurph128]

If Isiah Thomas leads the league in scoring and his team finishes first in the East the MVP is his.... Can't ever recall a player leading the league in scoring and being the best team in their conference and #1 seed going into the playoffs and not winning MVP.

If they got the 1 seed they'd likely still have a worse record that Houston and San Antonio.

Houston?

I don't think much of IT's MVP chances, and I really doubt that Boston surpasses the Cavs for the number 1 seed - but I can virtually guarantee you that the Cavs will finish with a better record than the Rockets.

[ken6199]

If Isiah Thomas leads the league in scoring and his team finishes first in the East the MVP is his.... Can't ever recall a player leading the league in scoring and being the best team in their conference and #1 seed going into the playoffs and not winning MVP.

If they got the 1 seed they'd likely still have a worse record that Houston and San Antonio.

Houston?

I don't think much of IT's MVP chances, and I really doubt that Boston surpasses the Cavs for the number 1 seed - but I can virtually guarantee you that the Cavs will finish with a better record than the Rockets.

How can you guarantee such things? I am just curious.

Can I guarantee before the season that Houston will have a better winning% than Cleveland before ASW? No I can't.

[bmurph128]

If they got the 1 seed they'd likely still have a worse record that Houston and San Antonio.

Houston?

I don't think much of IT's MVP chances, and I really doubt that Boston surpasses the Cavs for the number 1 seed - but I can virtually guarantee you that the Cavs will finish with a better record than the Rockets.

How can you guarantee such things? I am just curious.

Can I guarantee before the season that Houston will have a better winning% than Cleveland before ASW? No I can't.

I can't guarantee anything, which is why I put the word "virtually" in there. Synonym to "almost", because I know I personally have no control over the situation.

I am admittedly surprised the Rockets have been playing well - but I believe that will even out over time. The Rockets may have peaked already, while the Cavs have been playing relatively poor by their standards - pretty easy to figure that the Rockets will fall off a bit while the Cavs will likely get hot down the stretch.

[Triples333]

I think the reason why Kawhi isn't talked much about for MVP is that he is likely a lock for the DPOY award. It is unfair, but seems like what the media is going about it. Hakeem Olajuwon was the last player i believe to win both MVP and DPOY in the same year. That was a long time ago.

I'd bet anything that 80+% of the DPOY votes go to Draymond and Gobert.

[inquisitive]

I think the reason why Kawhi isn't talked much about for MVP is that he is likely a lock for the DPOY award. It is unfair, but seems like what the media is going about it. Hakeem Olajuwon was the last player i believe to win both MVP and DPOY in the same year. That was a long time ago.

But he is not a lock for DPOY at all this year. His defensive stats aren't as good as in previous years and Draymond and Gobert have been sensational on that end.

I guess the fact that he is in serious running for DPOY is hurting his chances for MVP which is my real point, but yeah, Dre and Gobert certainly are deserving of the DPOY.

[K_chile22]

If Isiah Thomas leads the league in scoring and his team finishes first in the East the MVP is his.... Can't ever recall a player leading the league in scoring and being the best team in their conference and #1 seed going into the playoffs and not winning MVP.

If they got the 1 seed they'd likely still have a worse record that Houston and San Antonio.

Houston?

I don't think much of IT's MVP chances, and I really doubt that Boston surpasses the Cavs for the number 1 seed - but I can virtually guarantee you that the Cavs will finish with a better record than the Rockets.

They don't have a better record right now, and the Rockets have a better SRS and Net rating by about 2 points each. The Rockets have had a tougher schedule as well, playing 4 more games than the Cavs and plenty more road games.
FiveThirtyEight has then at 56 a piece

[inquisitive]

Jokic for MVP!!!

[ChiCityHoops34]

Can someone make a "highlight" tape of when Russ is off of the floor? I honestly don't know if they win a single game without him no exaggeration. Roberson is the worst player in the league and he STARTS.

[K_chile22]

Roberson is the worst player in the league and he STARTS.

Not even remotely close to being true. Roberson is good, just not good on offense. He's a fringe starter, but far from worst player in the league.

[The High Cyde]

He's damn near unplayable with how bad his offense is.

Badass defender though, solid case as being the best in the league defensively as a wing defender.

[Gibson22]

James Harden.