2017 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson.

[binjumper]

One good season going to trump a HOF/MVP career. Now i've seen everything. Holler at me when they give IT his own shoe. AI impact on the game goes beyond PPG. People wanted to be like AI and copied his style swag and game. Who here wants to copy IT? anyone? thought so. Enjoy the great season he is having and stop comparing him to players that doesn't have any bussiness being compared to just cause they were both short(by nba standards... Isiah is still a midget though).

[permaximum]

I don't visit or comment on Realgm at all but I came here from google news and I couldn't resist the desire to call this the stupidest thread I've ever seen.

[Green89]

One good season going to trump a HOF/MVP career. Now i've seen everything. Holler at me when they give IT his own shoe. AI impact on the game goes beyond PPG. People wanted to be like AI and copied his style swag and game. Who here wants to copy IT? anyone? thought so. Enjoy the great season he is having and stop comparing him to players that doesn't have any bussiness being compared to just cause they were both short(by nba standards... Isiah is still a midget though).

I wish we could all judge players on sneaker achievements. That would settle everything.

As far as who wants to copy IT? The dude has single handedly given every kid under 6 feet new found ispiration in making an NBA dream a reality. There's already two other 5'9" guys making it in the league, and they no doubt look up to IT as someone they'd want to be like: Tyler Ulis and Kay Felder. There's an article about how Lebron was talking to Felder about Thomas, so even guys over 6 feet have taken notice of Thomas. The best past is he doesn't have to convince Real GM posters, as he's already proven himself to his fellow players and coaches around the league.

[sikma42]

One good season going to trump a HOF/MVP career. Now i've seen everything. Holler at me when they give IT his own shoe. AI impact on the game goes beyond PPG. People wanted to be like AI and copied his style swag and game. Who here wants to copy IT? anyone? thought so. Enjoy the great season he is having and stop comparing him to players that doesn't have any bussiness being compared to just cause they were both short(by nba standards... Isiah is still a midget though).

I wish we could all judge players on sneaker achievements. That would settle everything.

As far as who wants to copy IT? The dude has single handedly given every kid under 6 feet new found ispiration in making an NBA dream a reality. There's already two other 5'9" guys making it in the league, and they no doubt look up to IT as someone they'd want to be like: Tyler Ulis and Kay Felder. There's an article about how Lebron was talking to Felder about Thomas, so even guys over 6 feet have taken notice of Thomas. The best past is he doesn't have to convince Real GM posters, as he's already proven himself to his fellow players and coaches around the league.

Players and coaches around the league would call OP silly....


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[og15]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Iverson took his team to the NBA Finals and won the first game against the Lakers. He did so with a weaker team than the one IT currently is on. Let's see how far IT takes his team this year (so far he's been great).

Why would this be the comparison though when the Sixers didn't have to face a LeBron led team? I'm not going to say a team like the current Cavs because the East was all one man teams in the early 2000's, but there was no one man team with a similar supporting cast to the Sixers led by a player the caliber of LeBron in the East.

[bon]

Besides the rule changes, you have to look at the huge difference in roster construction.

Iverson was always playing for teams every year with zero spacing while Thomas has the luxury of having shooters at every position on his team. This opens up the floor so much and is the primary aspect of the efficiency differences between the two players.

[og15]

Yes he is..the efficiency in which he scores at high clip is simply too much to ignore and leading that marginally talented Celtics team as #1 seed over a stacked cavs team led by arguably the best player in basketball is impressive to say the least. Iverson is obviously the bigger name and nostalgia may cloud ppls judgment and have some bias towards him..but back to original premise if looked at facts objectively..Thomas is slightly better than Iverson best season (01) and thats only bc Iverson went to the final that year.

You see here you have to either admit that you aren't a good judge of what good talent looks like, or you haven't paid attention to their roster because this is false

I attribute that more to Thomas making them look better than they actually are. Those players aren't super talented by any means they are good at their specific specialized role (defensive stoppers who aren't ball dominant and can make the open shot). Their talents compliment off each other very well and Thomas is their engine, the catalyst that makes that team go.

Al Horford was helping a team to 60 wins in the regular season before he came to the Celtics. Bradley and Crowder are tough perimeter defenders who can shoot and even do some shot creating. These are universally useful and valuable players among the others they have. Thomas has played very well, but the Celtics team has a supporting cast and depth that can accommodate just about every star PG and have good results even with stylistically different players.

[Novocaine]

One good season going to trump a HOF/MVP career. Now i've seen everything. Holler at me when they give IT his own shoe. AI impact on the game goes beyond PPG. People wanted to be like AI and copied his style swag and game. Who here wants to copy IT? anyone? thought so. Enjoy the great season he is having and stop comparing him to players that doesn't have any bussiness being compared to just cause they were both short(by nba standards... Isiah is still a midget though).

Why do people keep making this point when the thread title "2007 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson"?

Isn't the idea to compare peaks, the best individual season of Thomas vs the best individual season of Iverson?

Careers and whatnot are completely beyond the point here.

And yeah, Iverson was never as good as Thomas was this season. The difference in efficiency is absolutely brutal - not just in absolute terms, but also relatively to the league. Actually, Iverson never even scored with the same volume per possession, he just played more minutes.

[Novocaine]

Besides the rule changes, you have to look at the huge difference in roster construction.

Iverson was always playing for teams every year with zero spacing while Thomas has the luxury of having shooters at every position on his team. This opens up the floor so much and is the primary aspect of the efficiency differences between the two players.

No, being a much better 3 point shooter + better shot selection are.

Thomas had no spacing whatsoever last season - Boston was 28th on 3pt %, playing Sullinger, Smart, Turner, Amir Johnson heavy minutes - and he was still more efficient than Iverson ever was.

People are overestimating the impact of spacing while, ironically, underestimating the impact that those guys long-range shooting ability had. Iverson's 3pt rate atempt was .170. That's less than half of Thomas'. He could have all the sapce in the world and he still wouldn't be as efficient as Thomas.

[rumdiary]

Last night Isaiah Thomas was better than Iverson.

However their careers are still worlds apart.

Maybe though, if IT didn't get drafted 60th and languish in developmental shitholes like Sacramento, things would've been different.

[bon]

Thomas had no spacing whatsoever last season - Boston was 28th on 3pt %, playing Sullinger, Smart, Turner, Amir Johnson heavy minutes - and he was still more efficient than Iverson ever was.

Not true.

Thomas last season: 56.2 TS%

Iverson in 08 (32 years old, with modern rules and with some semblance of spacing): 56.7 TS%

I have no doubt that a younger AI in today's game would be just as lethal as Thomas right now.

[Dan Z]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Iverson took his team to the NBA Finals and won the first game against the Lakers. He did so with a weaker team than the one IT currently is on. Let's see how far IT takes his team this year (so far he's been great).

Why would this be the comparison though when the Sixers didn't have to face a LeBron led team? I'm not going to say a team like the current Cavs because the East was all one man teams in the early 2000's, but there was no one man team with a similar supporting cast to the Sixers led by a player the caliber of LeBron in the East.

1. The Celtics haven't faced the Cavs yet this year, so like I said: "Let's see how far IT takes his team this year (so far he's been great)".

2. The 2000-2001 Sixers did face good teams during the playoffs. Reggie Miller/Jermaine O'Neal Pacers, Vince Carter's Raptors and Milwaukee with Ray Allen/Sam Cassell/Glenn Robinson.

So far the Celtics played a bad Bulls team and a solid Wizards team.

3. Iverson's team had a 35 year old Mutombo and Aaron McKie as his best teammates.

How far you're able to lead your team in the playoffs does matter.

[smallgains]

AI is or very close to top 10 all time in 30, 40 and 50 point games. Not to mention some 40 and 50 point playoff games. Thomas is more efficient and having a great season. Efficient or not, AI is one of the greatest scorers of all time. Happy to watch both to be honest.

[babyjax13]

Thomas had no spacing whatsoever last season - Boston was 28th on 3pt %, playing Sullinger, Smart, Turner, Amir Johnson heavy minutes - and he was still more efficient than Iverson ever was.

Not true.

Thomas last season: 56.2 TS%

Iverson in 08 (32 years old, with modern rules and with some semblance of spacing): 56.7 TS%

I have no doubt that a younger AI in today's game would be just as lethal as Thomas right now.

This. Rules change, Iverson's efficiency increases. Obviously, volume went down, not the same player, etc. But ... he undoubtedly would have been better than Thomas is right now. That takes nothing away from what IT has done, he has been flat out amazing.

[Bizness2520]

Man Allen Iverson was dunking on fools. Isaiah Thomas is a great player, but he's not in Iverson's class. Not yet atleast.

[Bizness2520]

AI is or very close to top 10 all time in 30, 40 and 50 point games. Not to mention some 40 and 50 point playoff games. Thomas is more efficient and having a great season. Efficient or not, AI is one of the greatest scorers of all time. Happy to watch both to be honest.

I've seen Isaiah Thomas be shutdown by bigger guys. I never saw Iverson get shut down like that.

[Phreak50]

Iverson is an all time great.

Thomas has had one very good/ almost great season.

Iverson dragged his team to the finals. The worst team I've ever seen in the finals since I've been following this game (25+ years).

Let's stop overreacting. When Thomas has his next 4-14 game will you be making a thread about how Jimmer Fredette is better than Thomas?

[socal74]

Since OP you are making this case for IT then 2017 James Harden is better than any version of Kobe? More efficient, makes his teammates better. Takes a team of nobodies farther in the playoffs without a 2nd star farther than what Kobe has done. I dunno. Just sayin.

[permaximum]

It looks most realgm posters don't know basketball and don't even know how analytics and efficiency work. I might bring a much needed light to this extremely ignorant topic.

1. In Iverson's prime average league TS% was around 51.1%. Guard TS% was around 49.5%.

2. Individual TS% means literally nothing even if it's compared to league average.

3. Iverson was double-teamed outside the perimeter and triple - quadraple teamed when he was inside the 3pt line.

4. Because of the 3rd, when Iverson was on the floor whole team's TS% hade gone up by 6-11% which is enormous and commited 4-5 TOs less per 100 poss which is extraordinary.

5. When Iverson shot over 30 times Sixers won 50% more because of the insane attention he brings to himself.

6. Because of the 3rd, 4th and to a degree 5th, Sixers won .530 of their games when Iverson was on the floor and only .303 of 106 games when he was not on the floor.

You can find articles for all 6 points on the internet by using google search. If you're lazy I can provide links for them.

You guys don't know anything about basketball if you use BPM, RPM, PER, WS, TS%, USG% etc. to compare individual players. I recently have proven how bad those metrics are. They are even worse than a simple stat called MPG which is hillarious.

In an advanced analytics era Iverson should be valued even more if you know what you're doing. Half-ignorance is the worst thing that happened to the NBA community.

BTW Iverson was a very good defender that got DPOY votes in his prime. Young NBA fans probably don't even know that.

Edit: I must add he also won Big East Defensive Player of the Year awards both years in the NCAA.

[Soulcatcher33]

I think Iverson is one of the most overrated players of all time...and this still makes me cringe. But what else would you expect from someone who thinks Blake Griffin is a top 5 player in the league?