Luka Doncic hints that he might stay in Europe next season

[valrond1]

16 pts, 7 rebs in a great win vs CSKA on semis. Let's see if he can deliver in the championship game.

Has any 19-yr old put up these kind of numbers in Euro league?

Someone in the draft thread did the comparisons so I'll copy from there

EUROLEAGUE
Rubio, 20 (season after draft): 13/8/6/3stl/.562 TS%/17.7 PER (7th on team)
Batum, 20 (draft year): 13/5/4/2/.526 TS%/12.8 PER (6th on team)
Dragic, 22 (draft year): 14/5/4/.544 TS%/13.2 PER (3rd on team)
Doncic, 19: 25/8/7/2/.61 TS%/ 22.9 PER (1st on team)

SMALLER LEAGUES
Porzingis, 20 (ACB): 20/9/2blk/1.6stl/.555 TS%/19.2 PER (2nd on team)
Jokic, 19 (Adriatic): 18/10/3ast/.569 TS%/21.2 PER (2nd on team)
Capela, 20 (French Pro A): 14/13/3blk/2ast/1.5 stl/.636 TS%/23.8 PER (1st on team)
Gobert, 21 (French Pro A): 15/10/3/.734 TS%/21 PER (1st on team)

Doncic is better than all of them at the same age.

Smaller leagues? ACB is a smaller league? You do realize that at the time the Euroleague wasn't even a proper league, like it is now. Rubio, as the rest of the Spanish players and Doncinc, they all played in ACB. It really can't be compared to the other leagues you are putting here.

[papidulo]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

[Novocaine]

This thread has had a number of horrible takes (seriously, I have no idea why Americans like this "players wants X city" argument so much, it sounds downright stupid to me) but this one takes the cake so far.

Everyone who is interested in basketball in Europe saw Dončić help lead his country to the gold medal last summer. We are well aware of who he is.

What's with the emojis? Time to grow up.

And way to miss the point: everyone interested in basketball in Europe? There are dozens of us, dozens. My comment was literally about that.

Doncic can enjoy some relaxed strolls on the streets of Madrid because very few people actually know him, even in the very city he plays.And that's because they don't give a damn about basketball, even if they're fanatics for the club he plays for and follow religiously even the most insignificant events about its football team and players. Doncic plays ina league where the most viewed tv games seldom surpass 30,000 viewers. Most get far less than that. Let that sink in. His team is the most popular and the average live attendance per home game is ~9,000; away games, even less. And there are 6.5 million people just in the Madrid metro area. So yeah, to claim he's "already a star in Europe" is a stretch of cosmic dimensions (no pun intended) - unless we're really stretching the definition of star - in Spain alone there are hundreds of sportsmen more well known than Doncic. The "American college kid who has been living in a dorm eating pizza and chicken nuggets" does have more public recognition in whatever city/state he plays than Doncic has in Spain or basically any other European country barring Slovenia. So again, within the context of the discussion, he's pretty much anonymous. Basketball is a niche sport pretty much everywhere in Europe, the few guys who are quasi-stars at a continental scale are actually the NBA stars, European or American alike.


And even though I abhor arguments from authority, I know this because, unlike you, I'm actually in Spain.

Yes, basketball is not as popular as soccer in Europe, we all know that. But saying that nobody knows Doncic, that's a little far-fetched. That's why I've had a look at some stats - Google Trends searches in the past 90 days, comparing terms "Luka Doncic" and "Jan Oblak". Both are Slovenian, to reduce bias. You are in Spain, so I probably don't need to explain who Oblak is, arguably the best European soccer goalkeeper.
Worldwide, Luka appeared in 2.25 times more searches. In Europe, Luka is ahead in some countries and Jan is ahead in other countries. Saying that nobody knows Luka in Europe is like saying that nobody knows a goalkeeper with a market value of 70 million eur (by transfermarkt).

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&q=%22luka%20doncic%22,%22jan%20oblak%22

I won't lose time with the craziness of either believing or pretending to believe the "nobody" is to be understood literally.

As for the google trends, I'm sorry to disappoint but those returns are simply too underpowered to mean anything. Don't you see the numbers per county in 1 or 2? That means that very few people have even searched them. We might actually be talking about literally dozens here. And once you change to Luka Doncic vs Jan Oblak (without the quotation marks) or Doncic vs Oblak, then Oblak is ahead in basically every country, except North America, Australia and the odd European country. And this because lots of NBA fans, including in Europe, are now googling Doncic because they want to see highlights, etc, while most people already know who Oblak is. I do admire the lenghts you went to try to backup your argument with something at all though. Unfortunately for you, dozens of google searches don't really make it - and most of them only exist because Doncic is a NBA prospect, not because he's an European basketball star. Again, 30,000 tv viewers for game. 9,000 in the stands. This doesn't make any sort of continental star, sorry.

[Pachinko_]

Has any 19-yr old put up these kind of numbers in Euro league?

Someone in the draft thread did the comparisons so I'll copy from there

EUROLEAGUE
Rubio, 20 (season after draft): 13/8/6/3stl/.562 TS%/17.7 PER (7th on team)
Batum, 20 (draft year): 13/5/4/2/.526 TS%/12.8 PER (6th on team)
Dragic, 22 (draft year): 14/5/4/.544 TS%/13.2 PER (3rd on team)
Doncic, 19: 25/8/7/2/.61 TS%/ 22.9 PER (1st on team)

SMALLER LEAGUES
Porzingis, 20 (ACB): 20/9/2blk/1.6stl/.555 TS%/19.2 PER (2nd on team)
Jokic, 19 (Adriatic): 18/10/3ast/.569 TS%/21.2 PER (2nd on team)
Capela, 20 (French Pro A): 14/13/3blk/2ast/1.5 stl/.636 TS%/23.8 PER (1st on team)
Gobert, 21 (French Pro A): 15/10/3/.734 TS%/21 PER (1st on team)

Doncic is better than all of them at the same age.

Smaller leagues? ACB is a smaller league? You do realize that at the time the Euroleague wasn't even a proper league, like it is now. Rubio, as the rest of the Spanish players and Doncinc, they all played in ACB. It really can't be compared to the other leagues you are putting here.

if you have better, more comparable stats, bring them on.

[iggymcfrack]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

Dude’s almost the size of Capela and he has skills like Harden. He’s not some small guard that’s gonna get bullied in the league. And did the “NBA hype machine” make him the MVP of the Euroleague? If anything I’d say he’s had surprisingly little hype for how successful he’s been.

[Jazztop]

Who would chose Sacramento over Real Madrid? In Europe the world is Doncic's oyster. It's very possible that he's pulling a Kobe.

Who would choose the NBA over Europe? Any player with serious potential, current skill and self-belief.

Clearly not Donic. He looks like the typical slow Euro that’s being overhyped. He’s a guy you don’t take in the top 5.

[Nuntius]

Nobody really knows Doncic in Europe. Well, except for Slovenia. In the rest of Europe, including Madrid, nobody cares, he's basically as anonymous as everyone else.

This thread has had a number of horrible takes (seriously, I have no idea why Americans like this "players wants X city" argument so much, it sounds downright stupid to me) but this one takes the cake so far.

Everyone who is interested in basketball in Europe saw Dončić help lead his country to the gold medal last summer. We are well aware of who he is.

What's with the emojis? Time to grow up.

And way to miss the point: everyone interested in basketball in Europe? There are dozens of us, dozens. My comment was literally about that.

Ah, I see. Your comment was about basketball's popularity in Europe as a whole. That's a valid point. It is absolutely true that basketball is not the most watched sport in Europe. I took your comment to mean that Dončić wasn't well-known among basketball fans which is why it looked such a hilariously wrong point to me. But since your comment wasn't about that, I retract my statement.

[papidulo]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

Dude’s almost the size of Capela and he has skills like Harden. He’s not some small guard that’s gonna get bullied in the league. And did the “NBA hype machine” make him the MVP of the Euroleague? If anything I’d say he’s had surprisingly little hype for how successful he’s been.

Everywhere I’ve looked lists him at 6’6 to 6’8, Capela is 6’10. Tomas Satoransky in WAS is 6’7, but I wouldn’t use a lottery pick on him either.

Doncic is probably gonna be good, but I see him as a solid starter, not franchise building piece. If SAC takes him, I still see them in the lottery next year.

I’d still take Bagley and Ayton over him; they seem to have a lot more upside to me...

[510TWSS]

With how teams are designing their offenses I’d probably take Luka over Ayton.

Keep in mind I haven’t watched a lick of any of them play outside of highlights.

Luka is 19 and so skilled. Yea, he’s training full time as a pro so his next level may not be as massive, but then again it could be. Who knows he’s just 19 but at ~230 lbs maybe he can shed some of those baby muscles for grown man muscles and get a bit more athletic.

Ayton looks good too, but I’m not sure how valuable a Drummond type player is gonna be. Granted he could be better offensively, but hearing questions about his defense maybe he’s not a consensus #1 type.

I think if you have a top 4-5 pick this year you’ll probably come away with a really good player.

[510TWSS]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

Dude’s almost the size of Capela and he has skills like Harden. He’s not some small guard that’s gonna get bullied in the league. And did the “NBA hype machine” make him the MVP of the Euroleague? If anything I’d say he’s had surprisingly little hype for how successful he’s been.

Everywhere I’ve looked lists him at 6’6 to 6’8, Capela is 6’10. Tomas Satoransky in WAS is 6’7, but I wouldn’t use a lottery pick on him either.

Doncic is probably gonna be good, but I see him as a solid starter, not franchise building piece. If SAC takes him, I still see them in the lottery next year.

I’d still take Bagley and Ayton over him; they seem to have a lot more upside to me...

tbf no matter who they take they’ll be in the lottery next year.

[UcanUwill]

He is a 19 years old playing like a star for one of the best teams in Euroleague , neither Porzingis or Saric were close to play in a Euroleague team at his age, i mean no player ever did that at 19, even last year he looked like a good Euroleague player.
He is a phenomenon.

That said, I wonder how many American tier 1 prospects would have done the same if they were in Euroleague. The answer is obviously not many, but I still think some of them would (maybe not the ones in recent history, but some of them defeinitely would). Luka Doncic is unprecedented case, but thats also because Europe just doesn't produce that many superstar prospects as USA does. So when people say he is best prospect since Lebron, I shake my head a little bit. He is not better than Brow, he is not better than Durant or Embiid...

[NashtyNas]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

I'd take Doncic over all of them simply for the fact that he's a 6'7 guard that can potentially defend multiple positions and be your lead guard. In today's game, that's more valuable than anything Ayton or Bagley will ever be in my eyes.

Of course if they turn out to be Shaq, Wilt, Kareem or Hakeem, it's a different story.
I don't see any of these bigs coming in have that potential, whereas I do think a guy like Doncic can play anywhere from 1 to 3 and that can defend multiple positions defensively.

I'd be happy with any of the 3 to be fair because we just need top tier talent period - but I'd personally take Doncic.

[Pachinko_]

Sorry can someone please remind me how the hell Bargnani got that #1 pick 12 years ago?

[AussieBuck]

Sorry can someone please remind me how the hell Bargnani got that #1 pick 12 years ago?

Was a draft not considered to have any standouts. Toronto wanted to trade down but there wasn't much interest so they took their guy at 1 anyway. Could have been an Okur + dude if he gave a **** I guess.

[righterwriter]

If you are Sacramento and Doncic doesn't want to play there, what's the best you can get in a trade (either for an established player or picks, or a combo of both)?

Do you think Aaron Gordon and the #6 for the #2 and some young player (Mason, Labissiere) could work? Gordon grew up about 2 hours from Sacramento and probably wants a big payday enough that he'd be happy with going to Sacramento. He could make a nice run and gun PF in an uptempot offense with Fox, Hield, Bogdanovic, and the guy they take at #6 (say Michael Porter).

[har13]

Has any 19-yr old put up these kind of numbers in Euro league?

Someone in the draft thread did the comparisons so I'll copy from there

EUROLEAGUE
Rubio, 20 (season after draft): 13/8/6/3stl/.562 TS%/17.7 PER (7th on team)
Batum, 20 (draft year): 13/5/4/2/.526 TS%/12.8 PER (6th on team)
Dragic, 22 (draft year): 14/5/4/.544 TS%/13.2 PER (3rd on team)
Doncic, 19: 25/8/7/2/.61 TS%/ 22.9 PER (1st on team)

SMALLER LEAGUES
Porzingis, 20 (ACB): 20/9/2blk/1.6stl/.555 TS%/19.2 PER (2nd on team)
Jokic, 19 (Adriatic): 18/10/3ast/.569 TS%/21.2 PER (2nd on team)
Capela, 20 (French Pro A): 14/13/3blk/2ast/1.5 stl/.636 TS%/23.8 PER (1st on team)
Gobert, 21 (French Pro A): 15/10/3/.734 TS%/21 PER (1st on team)

Doncic is better than all of them at the same age.

Smaller leagues? ACB is a smaller league? You do realize that at the time the Euroleague wasn't even a proper league, like it is now. Rubio, as the rest of the Spanish players and Doncinc, they all played in ACB. It really can't be compared to the other leagues you are putting here.

Yeah you are right, ACB is a much better league than Adriatic and French Pro A and as you said its not even close
but for people to understand the diffrence between ACB and Euroleague too.

This year alone.
Real Madrid 5th in Euroleague - 1st ACB
Baskonia 7th in Euroleague - 2nd ACB
Barcelona 13in Euroleague - 3rd ACB
Valencia 11th in Euroleague- 4th ACB

Only Crvena zvezda from the Adriatic league played in Euroleague and they finished 14th and no team from France Pro A.

Also because we speak i think about Porziņģis here he was playing for Sevilla and the year he played they finished 15th in ACB so we can't compare his stats with Doncic, the one was playing for the GSW and the other for the worst team in the Nba.

[har13]

He is a 19 years old playing like a star for one of the best teams in Euroleague , neither Porzingis or Saric were close to play in a Euroleague team at his age, i mean no player ever did that at 19, even last year he looked like a good Euroleague player.
He is a phenomenon.

That said, I wonder how many American tier 1 prospects would have done the same if they were in Euroleague. The answer is obviously not many, but I still think some of them would (maybe not the ones in recent history, but some of them defeinitely would). Luka Doncic is unprecedented case, but thats also because Europe just doesn't produce that many superstar prospects as USA does. So when people say he is best prospect since Lebron, I shake my head a little bit. He is not better than Brow, he is not better than Durant or Embiid...

Yeah of course you are correct here and i don't know who said that he is better than Bron or Durant , phenomenon for the European standards.

[ChaosHamster]

16 pts, 7 rebs in a great win vs CSKA on semis. Let's see if he can deliver in the championship game.

Has any 19-yr old put up these kind of numbers in Euro league?

Someone in the draft thread did the comparisons so I'll copy from there

EUROLEAGUE
Rubio, 20 (season after draft): 13/8/6/3stl/.562 TS%/17.7 PER (7th on team)
Batum, 20 (draft year): 13/5/4/2/.526 TS%/12.8 PER (6th on team)
Dragic, 22 (draft year): 14/5/4/.544 TS%/13.2 PER (3rd on team)
Doncic, 19: 25/8/7/2/.61 TS%/ 22.9 PER (1st on team)

SMALLER LEAGUES
Porzingis, 20 (ACB): 20/9/2blk/1.6stl/.555 TS%/19.2 PER (2nd on team)
Jokic, 19 (Adriatic): 18/10/3ast/.569 TS%/21.2 PER (2nd on team)
Capela, 20 (French Pro A): 14/13/3blk/2ast/1.5 stl/.636 TS%/23.8 PER (1st on team)
Gobert, 21 (French Pro A): 15/10/3/.734 TS%/21 PER (1st on team)

Doncic is better than all of them at the same age.

Porzingis was 19.

[lambchop]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

I think it's tough for teams to make a decision. The league is clearly drifting away from bigmen and centers have a very inferior role compared to 5 or 10 years ago.
However, I think things are set up well in this draft. PHO will take ayton and SAC can be the team to either make another horrible decision by drafting a bust in doncic or making its "first good decision" if doncic pans out. They will still need to acquire an SF though, because putting doncic or hield on nba SFs doesnt seem like a good idea imo.

[papidulo]

Im not a fan of highly-heralded European/international guards... theyre always overrated. I think the NBA hype machine wants to internationalize itself, and hypes up International prospects.

No way id take Doncic over Ayton or Marvin Bagley. I actually like Gilgeous-Alexander from Kentucky a bit more than Doncic

I'd take Doncic over all of them simply for the fact that he's a 6'7 guard that can potentially defend multiple positions and be your lead guard. In today's game, that's more valuable than anything Ayton or Bagley will ever be in my eyes.

Of course if they turn out to be Shaq, Wilt, Kareem or Hakeem, it's a different story.
I don't see any of these bigs coming in have that potential, whereas I do think a guy like Doncic can play anywhere from 1 to 3 and that can defend multiple positions defensively.

I'd be happy with any of the 3 to be fair because we just need top tier talent period - but I'd personally take Doncic.

Makes sense...

When I watched Ayton play, it seemed like he was clearly the best player on the court after a few mins watching.. NBA body, fluid movement w/o heavy feet, shot 3s. As of now I can see him being kind of like Clint Capela, with more range. Bagley was also dominant, and seemed like he could develop into a nice stretch 4.

I’m skeptical about guards who dominate internationally until I see them here bc the comp level is different. I also often view European pgs as kinda slow footed (right or not); I value quick feet and the ability to penetrate over being tall and guarding multiple positions. Further, many of the guys who won Euroleague MVP are guys who were role players here, if they ever do come, so I take it with a grain of salt.