It's been 5 yrs. Can we now say Andrew Wiggins is a Bust?

[JellosJigglin]

No, not "every" NBA player can put up 20 PPG. Yes, Wiggins is a bust.

It really is a shame given that the dude has all the physical tools and freakish athletic ability to be a superstar in this league. But this is what people are talking about when they say that a guy lacks that "killer instinct" and/or "alpha dog mentality". I don't use those cliche words per say, but so much of being an elite athlete is the mental side of things. The competitiveness and desire to improve just don't seem to be there with him. He's just comfortable "getting his" and getting paid.

This is the flip side of the coin with guaranteed contracts. He got a max deal without having any of those personality traits. In his mind he must feel like he's doing a lot of things right to deserve the max, so why work harder in his off time to improve? Sometimes when paying young players with potential you're just taking a leap of faith that things will eventually click, or risk losing them for nothing. Minnesota doesn't have free agents lining up to sign with them.

[skones]

No, not "every" NBA player can put up 20 PPG. Yes, Wiggins is a bust.

It really is a shame given that the dude has all the physical tools and freakish athletic ability to be a superstar in this league. But this is what people are talking about when they say that a guy lacks that "killer instinct" and/or "alpha dog mentality". I don't use those cliche words per say, but so much of being an elite athlete is the mental side of things. The competitiveness and desire to improve just don't seem to be there with him. He's just comfortable "getting his" and getting paid.

This is the flip side of the coin with guaranteed contracts. He got a max deal without having any of those personality traits. In his mind he must feel like he's doing a lot of things right to deserve the max, so why work harder in his off time to improve? Sometimes when paying young players with potential you're just taking a leap of faith that things will eventually click, or risk losing them for nothing. Minnesota doesn't have free agents lining up to sign with them.

When the owner wants a meeting with a player to reinforce his expectation that he will offer more down the line (because his improvements had been negligible prior), it's probably a bad idea to pay the man.

[taikibansei]

Just look at Wiggins impact on the team this season lol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

What is the definition of “Total Points Added”, “Defensive Points Saved”, and “Offensive Points Added”, etc.?

Usually math-oriented websites disclose their equations used, definitions, etc.

Without knowing this, the creator of these charts could have plotted these face icons per his/her whim.

NBA Math doesn’t seem very “mathy”.

Just sayin’.

They post their definitions here:

https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/

Basically, they are using the same stats and the same model as Basketball-Reference.com uses to calculate OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP. As Wiggins continues to be historically bad in these areas--he remains the only max salary player in NBA history to have never had a season with either a positive BPM or positive VORP in his career--the charts seem extremely accurate to me.

[Clyde Frazier]

Posting a 48% TS *this season* is pretty hard to do in your 5th year (league average now up to 55.9%)... i don't have much to say about wiggins, but damn that contract is nuts.

[taikibansei]

A bust isn't capable of putting up 20PPG over 5 seasons. Wiggins is just criminally overpaid.

Anyone can put up 20 PPG with enough shots. Dude is averaging 18 points on 17 shots this year. He's beyond awful.

Can you put up 20 PPG?

He perhaps can't, but allowed enough shots, any NBA player can. Heck, give Frank Ntilikina--who (like Wiggins) on many nights can't hit the side of a barn with a set shot--18 shots per game, and he'll be giving you nearly 20 points too. Would that make him a good scorer?

[Raps in 4]

A bust isn't capable of putting up 20PPG over 5 seasons. Wiggins is just criminally overpaid.

Anyone can put up 20 PPG with enough shots. Dude is averaging 18 points on 17 shots this year. He's beyond awful.

Can you put up 20 PPG?

Am I an NBA player?

But sure, I could score 20 points on 20 shots in rec league, just like any bum in the NBA can score 20 points on 20 shots.

[Quentin]

Just look at Wiggins impact on the team this season lol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

What is the definition of “Total Points Added”, “Defensive Points Saved”, and “Offensive Points Added”, etc.?

Usually math-oriented websites disclose their equations used, definitions, etc.

Without knowing this, the creator of these charts could have plotted these face icons per his/her whim.

NBA Math doesn’t seem very “mathy”.

Just sayin’.

They post their definitions here:

https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/

Basically, they are using the same stats and the same model as Basketball-Reference.com uses to calculate OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP. As Wiggins continues to be historically bad in these areas--he remains the only max salary player in NBA history to have never had a season with either a positive BPM or positive VORP in his career--the charts seem extremely accurate to me.

thinktank knows this. He uses BR stats all the time to prove his cases. He just doesn't like negative comments about Wiggins. You can post any stat you want and it wouldn't be positive regarding Wiggins so not sure why anyone would fight this.

[thinktank]

What is the definition of “Total Points Added”, “Defensive Points Saved”, and “Offensive Points Added”, etc.?

Usually math-oriented websites disclose their equations used, definitions, etc.

Without knowing this, the creator of these charts could have plotted these face icons per his/her whim.

NBA Math doesn’t seem very “mathy”.

Just sayin’.

They post their definitions here:

https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/

Basically, they are using the same stats and the same model as Basketball-Reference.com uses to calculate OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP. As Wiggins continues to be historically bad in these areas--he remains the only max salary player in NBA history to have never had a season with either a positive BPM or positive VORP in his career--the charts seem extremely accurate to me.

thinktank knows this. He uses BR stats all the time to prove his cases. He just doesn't like negative comments about Wiggins. You can post any stat you want and it wouldn't be positive regarding Wiggins so not sure why anyone would fight this.

I didn’t know that. Negative comments about Wiggins are deserved. I’m not standing in the way. Nobody could ever stop that but Wiggins. Just asked a question. Keep your pants on.

Thanks, taikibansei, for educating me and not needlessly acting like an ass.

[Effigy]

Lot of people in here don't understand what a bust is. I think the Cavs would have been thrilled to get him in 2013 instead of Bennet. Now THAT was a bust.

[Quentin]

They post their definitions here:

https://nbamath.com/tpa-model/

Basically, they are using the same stats and the same model as Basketball-Reference.com uses to calculate OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP. As Wiggins continues to be historically bad in these areas--he remains the only max salary player in NBA history to have never had a season with either a positive BPM or positive VORP in his career--the charts seem extremely accurate to me.

thinktank knows this. He uses BR stats all the time to prove his cases. He just doesn't like negative comments about Wiggins. You can post any stat you want and it wouldn't be positive regarding Wiggins so not sure why anyone would fight this.

I didn’t know that. Negative comments about Wiggins are deserved. I’m not standing in the way. Nobody could ever stop that but Wiggins. Just asked a question. Keep your pants on.

Thanks, taikibansei, for educating me and not needlessly acting like an ass.

Liar. You know exactly what those stats are.

[McHalesBurner]

What worries me is how this bum's contract affects the mentality of other Wolves players. They see this dude giving poor effort, not working to improve in the off-season, and generally just being a clown, yet getting paid max money. It must be demoralizing. It certainly doesn't set a good example.

I'd honestly try to buy him out. Get this bum away from my team!

[Eskobar13]

Lot of people in here don't understand what a bust is. I think the Cavs would have been thrilled to get him in 2013 instead of Bennet. Now THAT was a bust.

nah Cavs rather have the cap-space quite honestly.

[CoachD]

He's not a bust.
A bust wouldn't get a max contract extension.

He's a scorer. And that's all.

The projections when he was in high school and college and comparisons to Jordan,Kobe, Tracy were always stupid

[Rashodamus]

thinktank knows this. He uses BR stats all the time to prove his cases. He just doesn't like negative comments about Wiggins. You can post any stat you want and it wouldn't be positive regarding Wiggins so not sure why anyone would fight this.

I didn’t know that. Negative comments about Wiggins are deserved. I’m not standing in the way. Nobody could ever stop that but Wiggins. Just asked a question. Keep your pants on.

Thanks, taikibansei, for educating me and not needlessly acting like an ass.

Liar. You know exactly what those stats are.

This isnt the first time he has expressed his concern that these stats may be "fake news" because they destroy his "argument".

[zimpy27]

Lot of people in here don't understand what a bust is. I think the Cavs would have been thrilled to get him in 2013 instead of Bennet. Now THAT was a bust.

Wiggins is playing worse than Bennett at same age this year, the only difference is that Wiggins gets minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Anthony+Bennett&player_id1_select=Anthony+Bennett&y1=2017&player_id1=bennean01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id2_select=Andrew+Wiggins&y2=2019&player_id2=wiggian01&idx=players

[jojo152433]

Ooooo 20 points per game! Shi I could do that if I were allowed to take 50 shots.

No. No you couldn't.

[Woodsanity]

He is a bust. First overall pick who ends up being a below average player.

Scoring 20 ppg on trash efficiency, with trash defense, can't rebound for **** or pass does not equal decent.

Dude career wise has been a net negative every year and he looks so loss and disinterested in every game. Has the bball iq of a brick.

[improper]

I will say that, when the Cavs' traded him, I didn't think I'd still rather have Love than Wiggins five years later.

Yet here we are.

[Woodsanity]

And btw Ingram is next to enter this overhyped prospect who ends up being a scrub territory.

[PaKii94]

Lot of people in here don't understand what a bust is. I think the Cavs would have been thrilled to get him in 2013 instead of Bennet. Now THAT was a bust.

Wiggins is playing worse than Bennett at same age this year, the only difference is that Wiggins gets minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Anthony+Bennett&player_id1_select=Anthony+Bennett&y1=2017&player_id1=bennean01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id2_select=Andrew+Wiggins&y2=2019&player_id2=wiggian01&idx=players

small sample size but that's pretty funny. I didn't realize how putrid of a season Wiggins was having. No wonder Butler jumped ship lmao