could elena delle donne play in the nba?

[13th Man]

Good post Egg Nog. I don't mean to imply that trans people have made totally irrational decisions either. I'm sure that along with psychological, there may be physiological factors that could play into it as well, more complex than what we understand.

In any case I think that we're on the same page in that we only wish them the best as long as they're not harming other people or harming themselves.

Believing that you are the opposite gender of what you are is “harming yourself“. And to perpetuate the lie does hurt them. If I told you I was a cocker spaniel would you put a leash on me, rub my belly and let me go poop in the backyard? No, you would tell me that you care about me but I need help. Yet men are claiming to be women, and vice versa when biology tells us this is a lie and we just nod our head like barking seals because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

I used to see this as black and white as well but i have to admit that the issue is way more complex than we believe. I am open to suggestions that there could be a plethora of other factors attributed to their mindset, perhaps some being physiological or biological as well.......I don't know but there are smarter people than me putting in good research on this. It's easy to simply dismiss them all as being cukoo but I think there could be more to it than all of them simply being confused.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt for them to make their own decision once they hit adulthood. It's their body, who am I to say what they can or can't do with it? It could very well be hurting them but that's their prerogative, and legal under the democratic system. I am against cuck parents that want to transform their kids at an early age, I think that is just wrong and sick. I also believe that today's society has gone too hard and too fast to normalize this movement without having a firm understanding of the risks involved. That's just being irresponsible and I don't quite understand why the need to for it. Are they taking accountability for the alarmingly high suicide rates among this group of people? Not from what I can see.

That being said, I don't accept trans people as a member of the opposite sex either, I merely accept them as being trans. I don't believe that they should be able to participate in other gender's sports as it isn't fair. Men and women are not equal despite how much the feminists want us to believe that they are.

I will leave it at this. I have some strong opinions but also admit to my ignorance on the matter.

[dhsilv2]

Given that Elena is making less than $117K/year in the WNBA and she would be making around $1M as an NBA rookie, plus countless millions more in endorsement/book/movie deals as the first NBA player to break the gender barrier, my guess is that if she could make an NBA team, she would be there already.

not everyone cares about money

after you have a certain amount it doesn't make you happier to have more

in the 2004 olympics the men and women used the same ball

the wnba as a league shot 74% from the line in 2004

team u.s.a. women shot 76% in the olympics in 2004

if you take out yolanda griffith's free throws, the percentage goes up to 81%

oh, and the men won bronze that year, the women won gold

umm...ok. None of this changes that a smaller ball is easier to put through a rim. Also weird to compare the WNBA numbers to the olympic team's but anyway.

the point is if you think it's harder the women didn't find it harder because their percentages went up. i could give you individual players statistics instead of the wnba league average for 2004. lisa leslie shot higher from the line in the 2004 olympics than her career free throw percentage. so did sheryl swoopes. so did other women on the olympic team

Oh god....sample size bias much?

[benson13]

i think she'd have the best chance of any woman basketball player in history

she just turned 30, she's 6'5" 187 lb with elite shooting and good footwork/post game/ball handling

this year she was the first woman in wnba history to shoot 50/40/90 for the season, something only 8 guys in nba history did

her player efficiency rating was 32

her career free throw percentage is 93.8, higher than any nba player in history

according to real plus minus 6'5" 198 lb rookie grayson allen was the worst shooting guard in the nba at minus 5.46

he had a 7.5 player efficiency rating and a minus 6.8 box plus minus. utah gave up on him after 38 games. he's on memphis now

so the question is basically could she beat him out for a roster spot

Grayson Allen dropped 40 points in an NBA game. Recall the best you've played against in your life. We've all played that guy who doesn't miss, jumps out of the gym, and doesn't lose a game until he leaves the gym? Grayson Allen would destroy that dude. Grayson Allen plays basketball at a speed that is unthinkable to you. So he's a poor NBA player. He's still in the NBA, which means he's probably one of the 500 best ball players in the world.

Elena Delle Donne is not.

[gundysmullet]

Good post Egg Nog. I don't mean to imply that trans people have made totally irrational decisions either. I'm sure that along with psychological, there may be physiological factors that could play into it as well, more complex than what we understand.

In any case I think that we're on the same page in that we only wish them the best as long as they're not harming other people or harming themselves.

Believing that you are the opposite gender of what you are is “harming yourself“. And to perpetuate the lie does hurt them. If I told you I was a cocker spaniel would you put a leash on me, rub my belly and let me go poop in the backyard? No, you would tell me that you care about me but I need help. Yet men are claiming to be women, and vice versa when biology tells us this is a lie and we just nod our head like barking seals because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

There's a reason that there's science, and yes, biological support, for trans but not anything to support people believing that they are a different skin color, or a different mammal. Given that you don't even know this, your arguments are pure BS. Straight up.

You seem unintelligent on this subject. Hope you don't get offended at this comment but I'm just calling it how I read it.

What on earth does this even mean? It's completely incoherent. Science says that you are male or female, biology and genetics dictate that. There is zero evidence for a "trans" gene. What are you talking about?

[jlokine]

here's why i dont think she can play in the nba...

i dont even know who she is so i went to youtube her... right from the get go of this video, they said she has the size of a post player.. and you tell me she's 6'5" 187lb... that's a guard size in the nba. she plays within 15' a lot in this video. which she would have no chance at the nba.. her 1st step is slow.. it's ok against wnba players, but even with boban's lateral movement, is quicker than her first step. so she wouldnt b quick enough to be a guard and she'd be too small to play in the paint.

Watch on YouTube

[post]

Given that Elena is making less than $117K/year in the WNBA and she would be making around $1M as an NBA rookie, plus countless millions more in endorsement/book/movie deals as the first NBA player to break the gender barrier, my guess is that if she could make an NBA team, she would be there already.

not everyone cares about money

after you have a certain amount it doesn't make you happier to have more

umm...ok. None of this changes that a smaller ball is easier to put through a rim. Also weird to compare the WNBA numbers to the olympic team's but anyway.

the point is if you think it's harder the women didn't find it harder because their percentages went up. i could give you individual players statistics instead of the wnba league average for 2004. lisa leslie shot higher from the line in the 2004 olympics than her career free throw percentage. so did sheryl swoopes. so did other women on the olympic team

Oh god....sample size bias much?

take sheryl swoopes for example. combined in the 1996, 2000, and 2004 olympics she shot 75% from the line. her first season in the wnba she shot 71% from the line, then 82.6% in her second season. 82.5% was her career average. 85% was her average in 2004 olympics which was also her 2004 wnba percentage. at her peak she was a great player. wnba players have said they played with men's balls when they were growing up because they used whatever was available. therefore they usually need a week or so to adjust to using a man's ball if they've been using a woman's ball for a wnba season

i think she'd have the best chance of any woman basketball player in history

she just turned 30, she's 6'5" 187 lb with elite shooting and good footwork/post game/ball handling

this year she was the first woman in wnba history to shoot 50/40/90 for the season, something only 8 guys in nba history did

her player efficiency rating was 32

her career free throw percentage is 93.8, higher than any nba player in history

according to real plus minus 6'5" 198 lb rookie grayson allen was the worst shooting guard in the nba at minus 5.46

he had a 7.5 player efficiency rating and a minus 6.8 box plus minus. utah gave up on him after 38 games. he's on memphis now

so the question is basically could she beat him out for a roster spot

Grayson Allen dropped 40 points in an NBA game. Recall the best you've played against in your life. We've all played that guy who doesn't miss, jumps out of the gym, and doesn't lose a game until he leaves the gym? Grayson Allen would destroy that dude. Grayson Allen plays basketball at a speed that is unthinkable to you. So he's a poor NBA player. He's still in the NBA, which means he's probably one of the 500 best ball players in the world.

Elena Delle Donne is not.

i've known and played against 4 guys in my life who played college basketball. one played in the d league (what is now the g league) and briefly in the nba and then in europe. i know what it's like to face someone i can't beat. delle donne has said that many guys tell her in public they can beat her. she just laughs it off because she knows she can destroy them. i hope she destroys grayson allen too

[HollowEarth]

I'm guessing zero people in this thread are actually professional therapists/doctors or researchers that treat/study transsexuals.

Because there is a TON of this going on here:

Or have met one.

Mt Stupid

This thread has become Centralia, Pennsylvania.

All the reasonable people started moving out when the coal mine beneath the town caught fire. Everybody that's left are nuts.

[HollowEarth]

There is male, and there is female. You cannot change it, nor choose it. If you think you are the opposite of what you are, then yes by definition you are confused. You do not do people any justice by perpetuating a lie and tell them they can be whatever they want to be. As I stated, up until 20 years it was a mental health issue and was called gendered body dysmorphia. But unfortunately hypersensitive political correctness no longer allows us to treat people with sensitivity and the mental health care that they need so we lie to their face to make themselves, and to be honest, ourselves feel good meanwhile they continue to believe a lie. Again, it’s really about you. You’re just trying to feel good about yourself. Because if you really cared about someone and they were stating a blatant lie as a fact, you would try to help them. But you don’t, you placate them, because it makes you feel good.

You've made it clear how you feel about this matter. The word is "dysphoria" by the way.

So a family friend feels tormented in their own body for years, transitions to a "man" (I put that in quotes for you so your head doesn't explode) and becomes happy. Passes perfectly as a man, is in a relationship, is no longer depressed. There is no lie. They are trans. They are fully aware that their genitals are still the way they always were. They don't need a self-appointed hero such as yourself to point that out.

Yeah, I guess I must be happy that my family friend is finally at peace with their own existence because of my own selfish personal greed. Riiiiight.

Fun fact: women being horny also used to be a mental illness that was treated in actual hospitals with steam powered dildos:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators

Medicine was weird.

Also: Glad your friend is doing well. I wish that passing wasn't so important in our culture, that people could just be different. But I recognize that life can become way smoother for trans people once they can pass for their gender.

[LKN]

I'm guessing zero people in this thread are actually professional therapists/doctors or researchers that treat/study transsexuals.

Because there is a TON of this going on here:

Or have met one.

Mt Stupid

This thread has become Centralia, Pennsylvania.

All the reasonable people started moving out when the coal mine beneath the town caught fire. Everybody that's left are nuts.

[clyde21]

Good post Egg Nog. I don't mean to imply that trans people have made totally irrational decisions either. I'm sure that along with psychological, there may be physiological factors that could play into it as well, more complex than what we understand.

In any case I think that we're on the same page in that we only wish them the best as long as they're not harming other people or harming themselves.

Believing that you are the opposite gender of what you are is “harming yourself“. And to perpetuate the lie does hurt them. If I told you I was a cocker spaniel would you put a leash on me, rub my belly and let me go poop in the backyard? No, you would tell me that you care about me but I need help. Yet men are claiming to be women, and vice versa when biology tells us this is a lie and we just nod our head like barking seals because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

I used to see this as black and white as well but i have to admit that the issue is way more complex than we believe. I am open to suggestions that there could be a plethora of other factors attributed to their mindset, perhaps some being physiological or biological as well.......I don't know but there are smarter people than me putting in good research on this. It's easy to simply dismiss them all as being cukoo but I think there could be more to it than all of them simply being confused.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt for them to make their own decision once they hit adulthood. It's their body, who am I to say what they can or can't do with it? It could very well be hurting them but that's their prerogative, and legal under the democratic system. I am against cuck parents that want to transform their kids at an early age, I think that is just wrong and sick. I also believe that today's society has gone too hard and too fast to normalize this movement without having a firm understanding of the risks involved. That's just being irresponsible and I don't quite understand why the need to for it. Are they taking accountability for the alarmingly high suicide rates among this group of people? Not from what I can see.

That being said, I don't accept trans people as a member of the opposite sex either, I merely accept them as being trans. I don't believe that they should be able to participate in other gender's sports as it isn't fair. Men and women are not equal despite how much the feminists want us to believe that they are.

I will leave it at this. I have some strong opinions but also admit to my ignorance on the matter.

who cares, if they want to transition into the opposite sex more power to them, if they want to maybe seek treatment also more power to them, whatever makes them happy.

just leave the children out of it and we're all good here.

[dorkestra]

I'm guessing zero people in this thread are actually professional therapists/doctors or researchers that treat/study transsexuals.

Because there is a TON of this going on here:

Or have met one.

Mt Stupid

This thread has become Centralia, Pennsylvania.

All the reasonable people started moving out when the coal mine beneath the town caught fire. Everybody that's left are nuts.

We went there on an elementary school field trip before it was as bad as it is now. They have a train you can ride and a gift shop.

[Simmons25]

take sheryl swoopes for example. combined in the 1996, 2000, and 2004 olympics she shot 75% from the line. her first season in the wnba she shot 71% from the line, then 82.6% in her second season. 82.5% was her career average. 85% was her average in 2004 olympics which was also her 2004 wnba percentage. at her peak she was a great player. wnba players have said they played with men's balls when they were growing up because they used whatever was available. therefore they usually need a week or so to adjust to using a man's ball if they've been using a woman's ball for a wnba season

True story... when I was a kid growing up in Australia in the late 70s early 80's before anyone even knew what basketball was... my dad put up a basketball ring in my backyard. I played out there every night by myself and got quite good at shooting.

It wasn't until basketball was brought in as a sport in high school (around the early 1980's) that I saw a real basketball ring for the first time. I had no idea for my entire life I had been shooting at a netball ring which was not much bigger than the basketball itself. I couldn't believe how easy it was to score because the ring felt like a hula hoop compared to what I was used to. After a few months though I could no longer shoot anywhere near as well because my brain had gotten used to playing on a proper sized ring and ball. It was strange.... the brain is complicated.

So I personally don't think her playing WNBA with a smaller ball... is going to naturally translate to her shooting the same with a bigger ball in the NBA. She will be very bad at first... and get slightly better with practice but she will never shoot as high a percentage as she did with the smaller ball. It's just not possible.

[post]

take sheryl swoopes for example. combined in the 1996, 2000, and 2004 olympics she shot 75% from the line. her first season in the wnba she shot 71% from the line, then 82.6% in her second season. 82.5% was her career average. 85% was her average in 2004 olympics which was also her 2004 wnba percentage. at her peak she was a great player. wnba players have said they played with men's balls when they were growing up because they used whatever was available. therefore they usually need a week or so to adjust to using a man's ball if they've been using a woman's ball for a wnba season

True story... when I was a kid growing up in Australia in the late 70s early 80's before anyone even knew what basketball was... my dad put up a basketball ring in my backyard. I played out there every night by myself and got quite good at shooting.

It wasn't until basketball was brought in as a sport in high school (around the early 1980's) that I saw a real basketball ring for the first time. I had no idea for my entire life I had been shooting at a netball ring which was not much bigger than the basketball itself. I couldn't believe how easy it was to score because the ring felt like a hula hoop compared to what I was used to. After a few months though I could no longer shoot anywhere near as well because my brain had gotten used to playing on a proper sized ring and ball. It was strange.... the brain is complicated.

So I personally don't think her playing WNBA with a smaller ball... is going to naturally translate to her shooting the same with a bigger ball in the NBA. She will be very bad at first... and get slightly better with practice but she will never shoot as high a percentage as she did with the smaller ball. It's just not possible.

not sure if they were using a men's ball in 96 and 00 olympics. an article i read isn't totally clear about that. either way it's not a big sample, but it's some idea. 10 of the 12 women shot free throws in the 04 olympics. 5 saw their percentages go up with the men's ball, 5 saw them go down. tamika catchings dropped from 85% in the wnba in 2004 to 83% with the men's ball in the 04 olympics. now i'm comparing 178 free throws she took in the wnba season to 18 in the olympics, so for all i know if she took 178 in the olympics with a mens ball she'd shoot the exact same percentage she shot in the wnba, or not. could be 83, could be 85, could be 87. either way it's similar

i trust stats, even small samples, more than anecdotes. saying a woman will be "very bad at first" is just ignoring the data i'm providing

[mixerball]

I have to question how the size of the ball would impact her FT%.

Its easier to throw a smaller ball into the same size basket. I'm not saying you give Della Donne an NBA sized ball she would shoot in the 60s, but without a doubt it gives a boost to the percentage by some degree.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know, she is 6'4 I don't think an NBA sized ball would really throw her off that much.

Whats "maybe" about this? its simple physics.

[Simmons25]

take sheryl swoopes for example. combined in the 1996, 2000, and 2004 olympics she shot 75% from the line. her first season in the wnba she shot 71% from the line, then 82.6% in her second season. 82.5% was her career average. 85% was her average in 2004 olympics which was also her 2004 wnba percentage. at her peak she was a great player. wnba players have said they played with men's balls when they were growing up because they used whatever was available. therefore they usually need a week or so to adjust to using a man's ball if they've been using a woman's ball for a wnba season

True story... when I was a kid growing up in Australia in the late 70s early 80's before anyone even knew what basketball was... my dad put up a basketball ring in my backyard. I played out there every night by myself and got quite good at shooting.

It wasn't until basketball was brought in as a sport in high school (around the early 1980's) that I saw a real basketball ring for the first time. I had no idea for my entire life I had been shooting at a netball ring which was not much bigger than the basketball itself. I couldn't believe how easy it was to score because the ring felt like a hula hoop compared to what I was used to. After a few months though I could no longer shoot anywhere near as well because my brain had gotten used to playing on a proper sized ring and ball. It was strange.... the brain is complicated.

So I personally don't think her playing WNBA with a smaller ball... is going to naturally translate to her shooting the same with a bigger ball in the NBA. She will be very bad at first... and get slightly better with practice but she will never shoot as high a percentage as she did with the smaller ball. It's just not possible.

not sure if they were using a men's ball in 96 and 00 olympics. an article i read isn't totally clear about that. either way it's not a big sample, but it's some idea. 10 of the 12 women shot free throws in the 04 olympics. 5 saw their percentages go up with the men's ball, 5 saw them go down. tamika catchings dropped from 85% in the wnba in 2004 to 83% with the men's ball in the 04 olympics. now i'm comparing 178 free throws she took in the wnba season to 18 in the olympics, so for all i know if she took 178 in the olympics with a mens ball she'd shoot the exact same percentage she shot in the wnba, or not. could be 83, could be 85, could be 87. either way it's similar

i trust stats, even small samples, more than anecdotes. saying a woman will be "very bad at first" is just ignoring the data i'm providing

Well out of all the possible things at basketball a woman could be equal with a man at.... free throw shooting whilst everyone is just standing around watching you shoot it in is possibly the only thing... and I am afraid nobody is making a career from their ability to shoot free throws

[post]

True story... when I was a kid growing up in Australia in the late 70s early 80's before anyone even knew what basketball was... my dad put up a basketball ring in my backyard. I played out there every night by myself and got quite good at shooting.

It wasn't until basketball was brought in as a sport in high school (around the early 1980's) that I saw a real basketball ring for the first time. I had no idea for my entire life I had been shooting at a netball ring which was not much bigger than the basketball itself. I couldn't believe how easy it was to score because the ring felt like a hula hoop compared to what I was used to. After a few months though I could no longer shoot anywhere near as well because my brain had gotten used to playing on a proper sized ring and ball. It was strange.... the brain is complicated.

So I personally don't think her playing WNBA with a smaller ball... is going to naturally translate to her shooting the same with a bigger ball in the NBA. She will be very bad at first... and get slightly better with practice but she will never shoot as high a percentage as she did with the smaller ball. It's just not possible.

not sure if they were using a men's ball in 96 and 00 olympics. an article i read isn't totally clear about that. either way it's not a big sample, but it's some idea. 10 of the 12 women shot free throws in the 04 olympics. 5 saw their percentages go up with the men's ball, 5 saw them go down. tamika catchings dropped from 85% in the wnba in 2004 to 83% with the men's ball in the 04 olympics. now i'm comparing 178 free throws she took in the wnba season to 18 in the olympics, so for all i know if she took 178 in the olympics with a mens ball she'd shoot the exact same percentage she shot in the wnba, or not. could be 83, could be 85, could be 87. either way it's similar

i trust stats, even small samples, more than anecdotes. saying a woman will be "very bad at first" is just ignoring the data i'm providing

Well out of all the possible things at basketball a woman could be equal with a man at.... free throw shooting whilst everyone is just standing around watching you shoot it in is possibly the only thing... and I am afraid nobody is making a career from their ability to shoot free throws

this study says free throw percentages for women went down when using a women's ball instead of a man's ball. it also says 2 point and 3 point percentages stayed roughly the same when using either a man's or woman's ball

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3588654/

[LKN]

True story... when I was a kid growing up in Australia in the late 70s early 80's before anyone even knew what basketball was... my dad put up a basketball ring in my backyard. I played out there every night by myself and got quite good at shooting.

It wasn't until basketball was brought in as a sport in high school (around the early 1980's) that I saw a real basketball ring for the first time. I had no idea for my entire life I had been shooting at a netball ring which was not much bigger than the basketball itself. I couldn't believe how easy it was to score because the ring felt like a hula hoop compared to what I was used to. After a few months though I could no longer shoot anywhere near as well because my brain had gotten used to playing on a proper sized ring and ball. It was strange.... the brain is complicated.

So I personally don't think her playing WNBA with a smaller ball... is going to naturally translate to her shooting the same with a bigger ball in the NBA. She will be very bad at first... and get slightly better with practice but she will never shoot as high a percentage as she did with the smaller ball. It's just not possible.

not sure if they were using a men's ball in 96 and 00 olympics. an article i read isn't totally clear about that. either way it's not a big sample, but it's some idea. 10 of the 12 women shot free throws in the 04 olympics. 5 saw their percentages go up with the men's ball, 5 saw them go down. tamika catchings dropped from 85% in the wnba in 2004 to 83% with the men's ball in the 04 olympics. now i'm comparing 178 free throws she took in the wnba season to 18 in the olympics, so for all i know if she took 178 in the olympics with a mens ball she'd shoot the exact same percentage she shot in the wnba, or not. could be 83, could be 85, could be 87. either way it's similar

i trust stats, even small samples, more than anecdotes. saying a woman will be "very bad at first" is just ignoring the data i'm providing

Well out of all the possible things at basketball a woman could be equal with a man at.... free throw shooting whilst everyone is just standing around watching you shoot it in is possibly the only thing... and I am afraid nobody is making a career from their ability to shoot free throws

I feel like some kind of James Harden joke should go here

[post]

here's why i dont think she can play in the nba...

i dont even know who she is so i went to youtube her... right from the get go of this video, they said she has the size of a post player.. and you tell me she's 6'5" 187lb... that's a guard size in the nba. she plays within 15' a lot in this video. which she would have no chance at the nba.. her 1st step is slow.. it's ok against wnba players, but even with boban's lateral movement, is quicker than her first step. so she wouldnt b quick enough to be a guard and she'd be too small to play in the paint.

Watch on YouTube

this has all been addressed already in terms of her physical deficits. i'd expect her to do mostly catch and shoot stuff in the nba. so i'll just add delle donne has the lowest turnover percentage in wnba history. an interesting fact an nba team might find impressive

[post]

here's why i dont think she can play in the nba...

i dont even know who she is so i went to youtube her... right from the get go of this video, they said she has the size of a post player.. and you tell me she's 6'5" 187lb... that's a guard size in the nba. she plays within 15' a lot in this video. which she would have no chance at the nba.. her 1st step is slow.. it's ok against wnba players, but even with boban's lateral movement, is quicker than her first step. so she wouldnt b quick enough to be a guard and she'd be too small to play in the paint.

Watch on YouTube

this has all been addressed already in terms of her physical deficits. i'd expect her to do mostly catch and shoot stuff in the nba. so i'll just add delle donne has the lowest turnover percentage in wnba history. an interesting fact an nba team might find impressive

lower turnover percentage than anyone in nba history too

[MrDollarBills]

These conversations are always functionally stupid and bring out the worst in people.

The only way a woman could make the NBA is if they have a specific skill that is a clear outlier within the NBA. For example, if a woman in the WNBA could hit 70% of their three-point attempts then they might be able to successfully apply that skill at a high enough level even against more athletic defense.

In reality, any sport that requires a combination of strength and speed, will be almost impossible for women to compete against men. Serena Williams is a prime example of this. Arguably the most accomplished tennis player in history but in open competition she would never have qualified for an ATP tournament let alone won a tournament.

And you know what? That is perfectly fine. The achievement of sportswomen should be measured against their competition in the same way that the achievements of sportsmen are. We don't need to denigrate a woman's achievements because they cannot compete against men. Elena Delle Donne is a fantastic basketball player and should be admired for those achievements.

Amen.

She was killing Vegas last night too