Tuesday game thread discussion

[HotelVitale]

The lack of perimeter shooting isn’t really a thing, and there’s zero correlation (let alone causality) between 3pt shots per game and being good. There are more good teams in the bottom half of that ranking than in the top half, and 4 of the bottom 8 are very good teams. Sixers don’t have a star on offense and don’t even have a reliable go-to set or move. That’s a problem that defines the team late in games now, we’re going to have to wait until the po to see if talent, size, and the committee approach is enough.

How isn't the lack of perimeter shooting a thing? Particularly on a team with the best post scorer in basketball? It's not just an amount of 3s thing either, they've got a bunch of guys in the starting lineup that naturally want to go to the same spots offensively.

Not a thing in the sense that there's not a lack of perimeter shooting. The whole rotation besides Simmons and Embiid is solid to good 3 pt shooters (Harris, Richardson, Horford, Scott, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Ennis), and even Embiid is a hair away from being respectable. Getting any of those guys a decent look from 3 is a fine shot, perfectly good option for a solid offense. That's not the problem by itself.

Bigger issue is that, when games are tight and defenses are clamped they just can't do very much. Stay home on Simmons and he tends to drive himself into trouble; Richardson and Harris don't have first steps and generally can only get off 17 foot pull-ups off pn'r (which Brown still doesn't like to run anyway); and Embiid gets murdered by competent double teams and his efficiency relies on either a) getting deep position against little guys or b) getting FTs from cheap-y fouls off pump fakes or arm swipes, and both of those get a whole lot less useful against decent and focused defenses (or in the playoffs). The offense as is relies on flow and finding little gaps, and when the defense isn't giving you those and is pressing up to take the Sixers off their rhythm, they've often been wilting. Not saying that's the whole issue but I think that's easily a bigger problem than the shooting in and of itself.

[rugbyrugger23]

Embiid for Towns at the deadline.

Towns
Horford
Harris
JRich
Simmons

Then Horford for Russell

Towns
Simmons (point forward)
Harris
JRich
Russell

[youngcrev]

The lack of perimeter shooting isn’t really a thing, and there’s zero correlation (let alone causality) between 3pt shots per game and being good. There are more good teams in the bottom half of that ranking than in the top half, and 4 of the bottom 8 are very good teams. Sixers don’t have a star on offense and don’t even have a reliable go-to set or move. That’s a problem that defines the team late in games now, we’re going to have to wait until the po to see if talent, size, and the committee approach is enough.

How isn't the lack of perimeter shooting a thing? Particularly on a team with the best post scorer in basketball? It's not just an amount of 3s thing either, they've got a bunch of guys in the starting lineup that naturally want to go to the same spots offensively.

Not a thing in the sense that there's not a lack of perimeter shooting. The whole rotation besides Simmons and Embiid is solid to good 3 pt shooters (Harris, Richardson, Horford, Scott, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Ennis), and even Embiid is a hair away from being respectable. Getting any of those guys a decent look from 3 is a fine shot, perfectly good option for a solid offense. That's not the problem by itself.

Bigger issue is that, when games are tight and defenses are clamped they just can't do very much. Stay home on Simmons and he tends to drive himself into trouble; Richardson and Harris don't have first steps and generally can only get off 17 foot pull-ups off pn'r (which Brown still doesn't like to run anyway); and Embiid gets murdered by competent double teams and his efficiency relies on either a) getting deep position against little guys or b) getting FTs from cheap-y fouls off pump fakes or arm swipes, and both of those get a whole lot less useful against decent and focused defenses (or in the playoffs). The offense as is relies on flow and finding little gaps, and when the defense isn't giving you those and is pressing up to take the Sixers off their rhythm, they've often been wilting. Not saying that's the whole issue but I think that's easily a bigger problem than the shooting in and of itself.

I think both are issues, and ideally they'd figure out a way to add a guy that addresses both (adding a non-shooting playmaker does nothing to help this team), but the shooting one is far easier to address.

I get that they have a bunch of guys that are capable of making 3s, but I wouldn't call anyone in the lineup a shooter. They've got a bunch of guys that prefer to get into the paint and naturally want to play in similar areas in the lineup, and nobody that defenses feel the need to stay stuck to on the outside, which creates spacing issues. This lineup isn't anywhere near as good offensively as they were with Covington/Redick/Dario, and that lineup had even less playmaking than this one. Hell, the offense has been good when Embiid has gone to the bench and Harris and Horford shift to their more natural positions (where their shooting is an actual plus).

[Lockdown]

There was talk last year that Embiid might only have a couple of years before he breaks down. If you figure his downslope is sooner than later, you don't sell low on Simmons when you might end up in a situation where you can finally properly build a team around him. Plus, he's still got like half a decade before his prime. You have no idea what he's going to look like at that point. The worst case for Philly would be them trading him, he goes to a team that can actually put him in a position to maximize his skills, and the Sixers look foolish with a mediocre return as Embiid slows down.

[Mamba4Goat]

Brand should be getting the blame, not Simmons. He's accrued talent but it's not great fitting talent and the teams spacing and dynamic hurts from it. There's no one that has gravity like JJ for example.

[Basileus777]

There was talk last year that Embiid might only have a couple of years before he breaks down. If you figure his downslope is sooner than later, you don't sell low on Simmons when you might end up in a situation where you can finally properly build a team around him. Plus, he's still got like half a decade before his prime. You have no idea what he's going to look like at that point. The worst case for Philly would be them trading him, he goes to a team that can actually put him in a position to maximize his skills, and the Sixers look foolish with a mediocre return as Embiid slows down.

NBA teams win titles by going all in on windows when they exist, not by treading water and holding onto assets that in reality just deteriorate in value as they age. There's not much reason to believe that building a team around Simmons is something you'd ever want to do, let alone pass up a good chance at winning a title to do it. You go all in when you can contend, and then you crash and rebuild. That's the process, not hedging your bets in fear of being bad.

[youngcrev]

Embiid for Towns at the deadline.

Towns
Horford
Harris
JRich
Simmons

Then Horford for Russell

Towns
Simmons (point forward)
Harris
JRich
Russell

Yes, please on the Horford deal. That final lineup would look a lot better with Embiid in place of Towns (defense is in fact still important)

[rugbyrugger23]

Draft Day:

#1 Overall + Russell

FOR

Embiid

Horford
Simmons
Tobias
JRich
Russell
Plus #1 Overall off bench or used in consolidation trade.

[Antinomy]

I kept saying when Horford was signed that it was a odd move to hand an Embiid insurance policy $100 million. Because not only does it cost them spacing, but it essentially ruined Ben Simmons ability to play with guys that actually fit with him. Reddick & Butler leaving made it all the more worse.

There is a huge difference between guys who CAN shoot & SHOOTERS. Lots of Sixers fans got on me about saying it in the offeseason.

Horford would’ve been a great pickup if Embiid wasn’t there but it made no sense to bring in a guy who plays the same position offensively as your two best players. That money should’ve been put towards a perimeter shot creator.

[Wilfried]

Brand should be getting the blame, not Simmons. He's accrued talent but it's not great fitting talent and the teams spacing and dynamic hurts from it. There's no one that has gravity like JJ for example.

I don't know. Is it so hard to ask from someone, who has just been rewarded with a big contract, to work on 1 of the fundamentals of your job.

The Horford signing would probably be a lot more effective if Ben could finally shoot. (Or would (!!) finally shoot?)

[dhsilv2]

Brand should be getting the blame, not Simmons. He's accrued talent but it's not great fitting talent and the teams spacing and dynamic hurts from it. There's no one that has gravity like JJ for example.

I don't know. Is it so hard to ask from someone, who has just been rewarded with a big contract, to work on 1 of the fundamentals of your job.

The Horford signing would probably be a lot more effective if Ben could finally shoot. (Or would (!!) finally shoot?)

Simmons has worked on his shot....it's just THAT bad.

[abark]

Brand should be getting the blame, not Simmons. He's accrued talent but it's not great fitting talent and the teams spacing and dynamic hurts from it. There's no one that has gravity like JJ for example.

I don't know. Is it so hard to ask from someone, who has just been rewarded with a big contract, to work on 1 of the fundamentals of your job.

The Horford signing would probably be a lot more effective if Ben could finally shoot. (Or would (!!) finally shoot?)

Yes, Ben should have improved his shot, but even with progress he would still be an absolutely terrible shooter this season.

A Simmons, Harris, Embiid front line has more than enough size, so they had complete freedom to fill those extra two starting spots.

Letting go of Reddick and signing two 36% three point shooters was not ideal, when you already knew your two best players desperately need spacing to operate.

I'm not saying 36% is bad, but it is average, and they should have added at least one elite sniper in there.

[dhsilv2]

Brand should be getting the blame, not Simmons. He's accrued talent but it's not great fitting talent and the teams spacing and dynamic hurts from it. There's no one that has gravity like JJ for example.

I don't know. Is it so hard to ask from someone, who has just been rewarded with a big contract, to work on 1 of the fundamentals of your job.

The Horford signing would probably be a lot more effective if Ben could finally shoot. (Or would (!!) finally shoot?)

Yes, Ben should have improved his shot, but even with progress he would still be an absolutely terrible shooter this season.

A Simmons, Harris, Embiid front line has more than enough size, so they had complete freedom to fill those extra two starting spots.

Letting go of Reddick and signing two 36% three point shooters was not ideal, when you already knew your two best players desperately need spacing to operate.

I'm not saying 36% is bad, but it is average, and they should have at least one elite sniper in there.

It isn't even the percentage but they need an elite off ball moving 3 point sniper. Motion is key to getting the most out of simmons, he's an elite passer but he's got elite vision too. Motion is where he thrives and Embiid imo has the potential to go there over time, he doesn't have the vision but he has the skill.

[rugbyrugger23]

Embiid for Towns at the deadline.

Towns
Horford
Harris
JRich
Simmons

Then Horford for Russell

Towns
Simmons (point forward)
Harris
JRich
Russell

Yes, please on the Horford deal. That final lineup would look a lot better with Embiid in place of Towns (defense is in fact still important)

Towns D is much improved this year -- mainly due to having a better D player like Covington next to him. You don't think Towns D would improve even more with a lineup that puts Simmons D next to him, JRich at wing, and in the East. D wouldn't be a question in that lineup -- and Towns with Simmons is a dream pairing.

[Duke4life831]

Embiid for Towns at the deadline.

Towns
Horford
Harris
JRich
Simmons

Then Horford for Russell

Towns
Simmons (point forward)
Harris
JRich
Russell

Yes, please on the Horford deal. That final lineup would look a lot better with Embiid in place of Towns (defense is in fact still important)

Towns D is much improved this year -- mainly due to having a better D player like Covington next to him. You don't think Towns D would improve even more with a lineup that puts Simmons D next to him, JRich at wing, and in the East. D wouldn't be a question in that lineup -- and Towns with Simmons is a dream pairing.

Hasnt KAT's defense fallen off a cliff this year? I believe I've even seen Minny fans say he had a good first week or so, then it's been horrible since.

[rugbyrugger23]

Yes, please on the Horford deal. That final lineup would look a lot better with Embiid in place of Towns (defense is in fact still important)

Towns D is much improved this year -- mainly due to having a better D player like Covington next to him. You don't think Towns D would improve even more with a lineup that puts Simmons D next to him, JRich at wing, and in the East. D wouldn't be a question in that lineup -- and Towns with Simmons is a dream pairing.

Hasnt KAT's defense fallen off a cliff this year? I believe I've even seen Minny fans say he had a good first week or so, then it's been horrible since.

Actually no, his D has been much improved. Well, his man D is improved. He actually is in top 5 of opponent shooting percentage at rim. Way ahead of someone like Embiid.

His team D is always his problem area. But that is why on a better overall team with better overall team D, his weakness is greatly masked.

[dhsilv2]

Towns D is much improved this year -- mainly due to having a better D player like Covington next to him. You don't think Towns D would improve even more with a lineup that puts Simmons D next to him, JRich at wing, and in the East. D wouldn't be a question in that lineup -- and Towns with Simmons is a dream pairing.

Hasnt KAT's defense fallen off a cliff this year? I believe I've even seen Minny fans say he had a good first week or so, then it's been horrible since.

Actually no, his D has been much improved. Well, his man D is improved. He actually is in top 5 of opponent shooting percentage at rim. Way ahead of someone like Embiid.

His team D is always his problem area. But that is why on a better overall team with better overall team D, his weakness is greatly masked.

his man D was never all that bad, even when he got stuck on a guard, he was pretty solid. his man d however...it's like he isn't aware there are 9 other people on the floor at times. I don't get it.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Embiid for Towns at the deadline.

Towns
Horford
Harris
JRich
Simmons

Then Horford for Russell

Towns
Simmons (point forward)
Harris
JRich
Russell

I would never trade Embiid for KAT even though it would likely pay dividends on offense. Embiid is on a different planet defensively and impacts the game at a higher level overall.

[Tanks1]

Embiid for Towns at the deadline.

Towns
Horford
Harris
JRich
Simmons

Then Horford for Russell

Towns
Simmons (point forward)
Harris
JRich
Russell

I would never trade Embiid for KAT even though it would likely pay dividends on offense. Embiid is on a different planet defensively and impacts the game at a higher level overall.

What the Merry Christmas f*ck is this?.....Jo for Towns????.........you people are on crack and meth....

Simmons today...15 pts, 8 rebounds, 14 assists....the experiment is over......??...no it has begun

10, 9, 8, 76ers!!!!

[Jamaaliver]

Overheard after the Christmas Day defeat of the Bucks:

The Winners and Losers of NBA Christmas

Winner: The Sixers’ Offense

Read on Twitter

Before diving into Philly’s narrative-altering 121-109 win against Milwaukee, the franchise with the best record in the league, I’d like to make something clear: The Sixers did need to figure out their offense. The doubts raised about their scattered system and appropriate roles and the fit between Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid were all legitimate concerns. I say this despite what Philly Twitter would like you to believe after the Sixers’ shooters came alive and Embiid turned back into Embiid in a lacerating of the Bucks. But this offensive performance, the Sixers’ best of the season, showed what they’re capable of—even if it all but dissolved for most of the fourth quarter. Philadelphia tied a franchise record with 21 made 3s; Embiid dropped 23 points in the first half alone, a personal high for a half this season; and the looks were open, the cuts were purposeful, and the effort was at its peak.

It’s unlikely Philadelphia hits this many deep shots again because it averaged 10.8 made 3s entering the contest, and because the franchise has hit as many 3s only once in the 40 years since the 3-point shot has counted. But there’s now proof that this can happen. Here’s to the possibility of greatness. -Haley O’Shaughnessy:

The Ringer