Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread V (Read Post 1 & FAQ)

[Triples333]

That's nice, this guy cares about his trading of goods for money more than his life.

Not everyone is the same, most people only work so they can live a life.

I think I have a word other than "nice" to describe it. I'm kind of amazed he even said it, then again I guess I shouldn't be. Between this and the FL governor with the weird blowdryer thing I'm losing what little belief in humanity I had anymore.

I'm not surprised. Many people seem to value money over their own life. I don't know if they are brainwashed or what, I've known people like this. It's just misguided, it's more disturbing that he seems to think he's close circle of weirdos are somehow indicative of what most think.

To be fair, it's not nearly that simple. The true death rate of this virus (were we to simply have a test to give to every person on earth) is very likely <1:100-150 (could be worse as it mutates, but generally a virus becomes less deadly in fact), and that's not a number that will scare off a bulk of citizens who are about to go destitute or lose their business if the shutdown reaches the >6 to 8 week range. It's a fact that the ramifications of a >3 month shutdown would absolutely cripple much of the American economy, and it would take god knows how many years to recover. This is not a black/white issue and we need to make sure politics are removed from the argument as much as possible. It is a cost/benefit issue based on health, livelihood and our future.

Bottom line, they need to get those quick-test kits out en masse ASAP to get a feel for what we are really dealing with and to start making plans to get people back into their place of work. Those who are most susceptible need to stay home, period, and that is where the $ relief efforts need to be focused until proper PPE and ultimately a hopeful vaccine are in widespread use.

[Bucksmaniac]

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?s=21

Good read. I truly hope it doesn't happen, with this government anything is possible.

Wasn't sure at first from just reading the tweet (and don't want to touch the politics of it either) but yeah it sounds as bad in audio as the tweet reads.

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?s=20

That's nice, this guy cares about his trading of goods for money more than his life.

Not everyone is the same, most people only work so they can live a life.

You're not really living a life though if you're cooped up inside away from all human contact for months on end. When you're in your 80s would you call this a quality life worth living having nothing to do but hear media talk about the death and destruction around when you can't leave your room/home? I understand both sides frankly, my grandpa at 86 is the same way where he'd rather have the freedom to live his life, watch sports that are all canceled instead of spending many of these months in isolation and fear.

[Brandon-Clyde]

This is why you shouldn't recommend experiment drugs you don't understand if you are in a position of authority

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?s=20

That medication can be helpful under very CLOSE medical supervision. My sister in law takes it for lupus. The difference between a therapeutic and lethal dose is very small and it's very stupid to try and self medicate with it.

Turns out they didn't even use the medication but went to a pet store and bought chloroquine phosphate which is used to clean fish tanks. That is Darwin Award thinking on the couple's part

[Capn'O]

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?s=20



Florida is in trouble.

Can't imagine why

[LKN]

I think I have a word other than "nice" to describe it. I'm kind of amazed he even said it, then again I guess I shouldn't be. Between this and the FL governor with the weird blowdryer thing I'm losing what little belief in humanity I had anymore.

I'm not surprised. Many people seem to value money over their own life. I don't know if they are brainwashed or what, I've known people like this. It's just misguided, it's more disturbing that he seems to think he's close circle of weirdos are somehow indicative of what most think.

To be fair, it's not nearly that simple. The true death rate of this virus (were we to simply have a test to give to every person on earth) is very likely <1:100-150 (could be worse as it mutates, but generally a virus becomes less deadly in fact), and that's not a number that will scare off a bulk of citizens who are about to go destitute or lose their business if the shutdown reaches the >6 to 8 week range. It's a fact that the ramifications of a >3 month shutdown would absolutely cripple much of the American economy, and it would take god knows how many years to recover. This is not a black/white issue and we need to make sure politics are removed from the argument as much as possible. It is a cost/benefit issue based on health, livelihood and our future.

Bottom line, they need to get those quick-test kits out en masse ASAP to get a feel for what we are really dealing with and to start making plans to get people back into their place of work. Those who are most susceptible need to stay home, period, and that is where the $ relief efforts need to be focused until proper PPE and ultimately a hopeful vaccine are in widespread use.

You don't understand why the virus is so dangerous... it's not that it kills a huge percentage of people - it's that it's very contagious and wipes out hospital and ICU capacity.

In Italy it has increased the overall death rate by way over 20%.

If we just let it run wild millions of people would die from all kinds of things. Get in a car accident? Sorry - ICU is full, your dead. Heart attack? Sorry, same thing.

There's also no guarantee that the economy would even be any better if we just opened things back up. You think an economy can function when the healthcare system is overloaded and thousands of people a day are dying? No one will be going to restaurants or bars... hell, people would be terrified to go to work.

The government can backstop the economy for a time = it's purely a political problem.

[lakerz12]

The elderly and the poor are getting sicker and dying more.

But the rich still aren't rich enough.

Everybody get back to work!!

Are you really that stupid that you don't know a tanked economy will negatively affect all classes? Poor, middle class, rich. Doesn't matter. If the economy goes under we are all screwed.

If anything, it's the rich that can afford for the economy to go on pause for a while since they have savings and don't depend on a pay check.

I'm not saying we should rush anything and risk lives unnecessarily, but your reasoning is terrible.

[zimpy27]

I think I have a word other than "nice" to describe it. I'm kind of amazed he even said it, then again I guess I shouldn't be. Between this and the FL governor with the weird blowdryer thing I'm losing what little belief in humanity I had anymore.

I'm not surprised. Many people seem to value money over their own life. I don't know if they are brainwashed or what, I've known people like this. It's just misguided, it's more disturbing that he seems to think he's close circle of weirdos are somehow indicative of what most think.

To be fair, it's not nearly that simple. The true death rate of this virus (were we to simply have a test to give to every person on earth) is very likely <1:100-150 (could be worse as it mutates, but generally a virus becomes less deadly in fact), and that's not a number that will scare off a bulk of citizens who are about to go destitute or lose their business if the shutdown reaches the >6 to 8 week range. It's a fact that the ramifications of a >3 month shutdown would absolutely cripple much of the American economy, and it would take god knows how many years to recover. This is not a black/white issue and we need to make sure politics are removed from the argument as much as possible. It is a cost/benefit issue based on health, livelihood and our future.

Bottom line, they need to get those quick-test kits out en masse ASAP to get a feel for what we are really dealing with and to start making plans to get people back into their place of work. Those who are most susceptible need to stay home, period, and that is where the $ relief efforts need to be focused until proper PPE and ultimately a hopeful vaccine are in widespread use.

Harvard just released a paper today with modelling suggesting that 5 more 5-week isolation periods over the next year is enough to keep it under control. Businesses can work with that if they know in advance.

Plus that mortality rate is generous and has been taken from measures made on countries that contain the virus. Yyou can't apply that to the case of letting it just play out. No country has let ICU's get overrun only one area has (Lombardy in Italy), want to check their mortality rate?

[LKN]

The elderly and the poor are getting sicker and dying more.

But the rich still aren't rich enough.

Everybody get back to work!!

Are you really that stupid that you don't know a tanked economy will negatively affect all classes? Poor, middle class, rich. Doesn't matter. If the economy goes under we are all screwed.

If anything, it's the rich that can afford for the economy to go on pause for a while since they have savings and don't depend on a pay check.

I'm not saying we should rush anything and risk lives unnecessarily, but your reasoning is terrible.

That's the entire point of a stimulus package. The government can just pay everyone who is not working. No one will starve - it's a purely political problem with a fairly straightforward solution.

[Meeksology]

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?s=21

This Pandemic isn’t going to get better anytime soon

Was so pissed at a friend of mine a couple days ago. He just went to Puerto Rico to party for like 60 dollars round trip then shows up at my door with beer wanting to hang out around me and my kids.

I hope u slammed the door at his face.

"I love u bro but gtf away from my house!"

Sent from my SM-N950W using RealGM mobile app

[Triples333]

I'm not surprised. Many people seem to value money over their own life. I don't know if they are brainwashed or what, I've known people like this. It's just misguided, it's more disturbing that he seems to think he's close circle of weirdos are somehow indicative of what most think.

To be fair, it's not nearly that simple. The true death rate of this virus (were we to simply have a test to give to every person on earth) is very likely <1:100-150 (could be worse as it mutates, but generally a virus becomes less deadly in fact), and that's not a number that will scare off a bulk of citizens who are about to go destitute or lose their business if the shutdown reaches the >6 to 8 week range. It's a fact that the ramifications of a >3 month shutdown would absolutely cripple much of the American economy, and it would take god knows how many years to recover. This is not a black/white issue and we need to make sure politics are removed from the argument as much as possible. It is a cost/benefit issue based on health, livelihood and our future.

Bottom line, they need to get those quick-test kits out en masse ASAP to get a feel for what we are really dealing with and to start making plans to get people back into their place of work. Those who are most susceptible need to stay home, period, and that is where the $ relief efforts need to be focused until proper PPE and ultimately a hopeful vaccine are in widespread use.

You don't understand why the virus is so dangerous... it's not that it kills a huge percentage of people - it's that it's very contagious and wipes out hospital and ICU capacity.

In Italy it has increased the overall death rate by way over 20%.

If we just let it run wild millions of people would die from all kinds of things. Get in a car accident? Sorry - ICU is full, your dead. Heart attack? Sorry, same thing.

There's also no guarantee that the economy would even be any better if we just opened things back up. You think an economy can function when the healthcare system is overloaded and thousands of people a day are dying? No one will be going to restaurants or bars... hell, people would be terrified to go to work.

The government can backstop the economy for a time = it's purely a political problem.

Well no, clearly you don't understand what I wrote but I will spell it out for you one more time. I'm well aware that it's properties as an easily spread virus make it an issue, and I am well aware of the issues it imposes to health care facilities. Hence why I wrote that all measures need to be prioritized to get proper testing and PPE equipment (n95's, gloves, etc) out en masse. That is step 1 to beginning to isolate those who are sick and protect those are not. I also wrote that those who are the most susceptible (elderly, auto-immune deficient, etc) simply need to be in quarantine for the foreseeable future until we have more of the proper equipment (more defibrillators, etc) and means to handle the issue (by that time we also hopefully have more readily available treatment options before we ultimately have a vaccine).

Those steps have to be taken, period. And that is what is hopefully being prioritized to the highest degree. As far as the economy goes, you will be very hard pressed to make an argument to me that if we have to wait this out for >3 months due to a lack of ineptitude or abundance of caution, that we will not be worse off for it. The effects of that could last a generation (it is literally unprecedented).

[MagicBagley18]

Lifting the quarantine is ridiculous- in fact I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum and say it shouldn’t be half assed and totally enforced harder. I don’t like being told what to do and what not to do but this will totally save lives, if we can’t as a society self quarantine correctly for a few weeks we are doomed and much worse off than I thought.

[OkcSinceSGA]

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Jesus

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[homecourtloss]

The elderly and the poor are getting sicker and dying more.

But the rich still aren't rich enough.

Everybody get back to work!!

Are you really that stupid that you don't know a tanked economy will negatively affect all classes? Poor, middle class, rich. Doesn't matter. If the economy goes under we are all screwed.

If anything, it's the rich that can afford for the economy to go on pause for a while since they have savings and don't depend on a pay check.

I'm not saying we should rush anything and risk lives unnecessarily, but your reasoning is terrible.

My hope is that he or anyone parroting that nonsense is 15 years old, but I know that’s sadly not the case. Everyone is in a zugzwang here—there are no 100% correct policy moves, but people are quick to discuss the “greed,” “the fat cats,”etc. Yeah, there’s going to be some of that, but right now, we’re on the precipice of wholesale disaster.

[Triples333]

The elderly and the poor are getting sicker and dying more.

But the rich still aren't rich enough.

Everybody get back to work!!

Are you really that stupid that you don't know a tanked economy will negatively affect all classes? Poor, middle class, rich. Doesn't matter. If the economy goes under we are all screwed.

If anything, it's the rich that can afford for the economy to go on pause for a while since they have savings and don't depend on a pay check.

I'm not saying we should rush anything and risk lives unnecessarily, but your reasoning is terrible.

That's the entire point of a stimulus package. The government can just pay everyone who is not working. No one will starve - it's a purely political problem with a fairly straightforward solution.

It's highly ignorant to assume that the government can simply float the entirety of the American people for an unforeseen amount of time and all will be fine. It can work as a very short term fix, but if it goes on and they simply print money out of the sky to keep the country going, the ultimate result is hyper-inflation and a complete collapse of the American dollar - and in effect the American economy. Long story short: No more "America" as you knew it.

[Ainosterhaspie]

If we completely shut everything down we could probably save some of the 10,000+ people who die annually from the flu. People here are horrified at the thought of 2,000,000 dying from Covid this year and we must shut down the country indefinitely to prevent that, but it's not worth it to shut down the country to save 10,000.

So my question is, what is your number?

[spacemonkey]

Read on Twitter

Outbreaks of COVID-19 on cruise ships pose a risk for rapid spread of disease beyond the voyage. Aggressive efforts are required to contain spread. All persons should defer all cruise travel worldwide during the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm?s_cid=mm6912e3_w

[GordanFreeman]

Wasn't sure at first from just reading the tweet (and don't want to touch the politics of it either) but yeah it sounds as bad in audio as the tweet reads.

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?s=20

That's nice, this guy cares about his trading of goods for money more than his life.

Not everyone is the same, most people only work so they can live a life.

You're not really living a life though if you're cooped up inside away from all human contact for months on end. When you're in your 80s would you call this a quality life worth living having nothing to do but hear media talk about the death and destruction around when you can't leave your room/home? I understand both sides frankly, my grandpa at 86 is the same way where he'd rather have the freedom to live his life, watch sports that are all canceled instead of spending many of these months in isolation and fear.

Hmm, a couple of months of being isolated vs going out and astronomically increasing the risk of getting infected and dying. I think it's an easy choice.

[Catchall]

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Jesus

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This is the issue. In certain hotspots, strong measures need to be taken. In other areas, where the infection rate is low, some measures need to be taken, but not at the expense of the entire economy.

At this point, there should be domestic travel bans to hotspots like NY tri-state, Seattle, and SF Bay Area.

[LKN]

Are you really that stupid that you don't know a tanked economy will negatively affect all classes? Poor, middle class, rich. Doesn't matter. If the economy goes under we are all screwed.

If anything, it's the rich that can afford for the economy to go on pause for a while since they have savings and don't depend on a pay check.

I'm not saying we should rush anything and risk lives unnecessarily, but your reasoning is terrible.

That's the entire point of a stimulus package. The government can just pay everyone who is not working. No one will starve - it's a purely political problem with a fairly straightforward solution.

It's highly ignorant to assume that the government can simply float the entirety of the American people for an unforeseen amount of time and all will be fine. It can work as a very short term fix, but if it goes on and they simply print money out of the sky to keep the country going, the ultimate result is hyper-inflation and a complete collapse of the American dollar - and in effect the American economy. Long story short: No more "America" as you knew it.

Your strawman is on fire.

I never said that it would be indefinite... but it absolutely could work for an 8-12 week period.

You probably shouldn't call me ignorant when you clearly don't even understand the basics of fiat currency. There will be no hyper-inflation; that only happens if your debt is denominated in foreign currency. You are parroting the same nonsense that has continually disproven over the last 30 years.

We are engaged in massive deficit spending right now, yet the dollar is stronger than ever and treasuries are massively in demand despite tiny yields

[LKN]

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Jesus

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This is the issue. In certain hotspots, strong measures need to be taken. In other areas, where the infection rate is low, some measures need to be taken, but not at the expense of the entire economy.

At this point, there should be domestic travel bans to hotspots like NY tri-state, Seattle, and SF Bay Area.

The problem is we actually don't know where the hotspots are because there's very little testing outside of NY.

If we can ever ramp up enough testing on a massive scale then I think your idea has merit.