chitownsalesmen wrote:Baski wrote:chitownsalesmen wrote:
I don't know this to be the case, but I'm imagining the Lakers would have had Ingram in the trade offer, because what would they exactly do with LeBron, Ingram and Leonard all on the team then? The only good point that you brought up was the 4th pick wasn't awarded to the Lakers, and had some Leonard trade been constructed it wouldn't likely have been that high so I'll give you that but that was the 4th pick in a 2 man draft so its not a huge needle pusher IMO.
The rest of what you said is hogwash, you got a late 1st from Toronto and a bad contract in Derozan for an expiring Leonard who went on to win another finals MVP, however you want to slice it the Spurs got hosed. I'm not saying the Lakers deal was the best offer on the table(Idk what the reported offer at the time was) but look at what the Lakers did eventually give up for an expiring AD, look at what GS was able to squeeze out of the last minute KD sign and trade where they really had no leverage as KD was injured and had to pull something off quick and still got Russell, look at what OKC got for Paul George, the list goes on the Spurs got horrible return for Leonard compared to other similar players who where traded within a year of the Leonard trade.
Right. Can't respond so it's hogwash.
Again, there's no negative way to spin the Raptors winning the NBA title after getting Kawhi Leonard. It still doesn't take away from the Spurs making a prudent trade in a situation where they were setup to fail. If the Spurs getting "hosed" or not according to you depends on a game 7 last second shot bouncing on the rim a billion times and faling in, you're looking at it the wrong way.
FTR it would be just as stupid to say the Raptors "got hosed" if Leonard's knee imploded on the 10th day of the RS or if he just sucked for the 2019 season.
You're just going based off of hindsight with the other trades and I find it strange you can't see the problem with that. The Spurs got "horrible return for Leonard compared to other similar players who where traded within a year of the Leonard trade" because Leonard heavily tanked his value by milking his injury, forging medical diagnoses that were different from the one the Spurs gave and the whole league now acknowledges and telling every non-Laker team to basically give up on trading for him. Maybe you're not aware but these things matter in a trade. Surely you can see how the other trades you've listed had different circumstances that made it much easier to get a better return. If not let me help you out:
AD: you've acknowledged the 4th pick made a difference, but as I've said numerous times already, the Lakers FO arrogantly overplayed their hand by adding Deng's contract while not meeting the Spurs demands. It's worth noting that failing the George and Leonard trades was a major motivating factor in getting them to cut the crap and put real deals on the table. AD was literally their last chance to get a star next to Lebron.
KD: This was a guaranteed 4 years of KD with a chance he gets back to close to his old self. No need to elaborate on why that nets more value than one year of a pouty potentially injured star that likely wouldn't resign
PG: 3 years of a healthy PG, with OKC having all the leverage because Kawhi absolutely would not sign with the Clippers otherwise.
If the list goes on and on you better expand your list cos this ain't it chief.
If you're open to the fact that the Lakers package indeed wasn't the best package then what are you even arguing here? You can't "not know" what the best package was and still maintain that what the Spurs took was terrible. Leonard set them up to fail and they "failed" as best they could. Criticizing the deal on that basis makes no sense.
The only thing I'm arguing is the Spurs got rekt in the Leonard trade, Spurs fans keep acting like AD didn't tank his trade value aswell and NO was still able to recoup far more value then what the Spurs got, Spurs fans are refusing to acknowledge that GS got more for KD in a sign and trade where he could have just signed with BK outright for capspace, and was coming fresh off of an achilles tendon tear and still GS recouped better value when having almost no leverage what so ever in those negotiations.
You're just repeating yourself at this point. I'll address this one last time:
1. Spurs got rekt because they were set up to get rekt. There's only so many ways this can be said before the point it addresses gets any less stupid
2. The differences between the AD, KD, PG and KL trades have been mentioned in the very post you quoted. You ignoring them and repeating those trades just shows how unwilling you are to actually "converse" as you keep saying. If you're gonna just state your opinion and dismiss any points to the contrary then why even post in this thread?
All I'm saying is this thread has a valid point and I'm not getting any push back on any of my points from non-Spurs fans so I'm inclined to take that as a sign that again their is a valid point to this thread and I think the Spurs got a bad return on Leonard and until I see a legit argument refuting my stance I'm going to hold that opinion.
In other words "rah rah rah rah I can't hear you you got fleeced". So all the valid arguments from Spurs fans don't count because they're from Spurs fans? Why would you look to a non-informed person who has zero idea who our most recent picks even are to judge a FO decision by a team he doesn't care about? The Spurs aren't the Lakers. Information about the team doesn't get blown up and discussed to death. Same thing happened with the whole Dennis fiasco where Leonard and his Uncle were allowed to just spread lies and the media lapped them up without even simply referring to readily available reports by they themselves as far back as 2016 that pointed to #2's actual motives even back then. There were people here actually saying the Spurs were a cult, all based on misinformation and unwillingness to just read information from Spurs fans. If you want to have a legit converstaion, read our posts.
I'm not trying to troll spurs fan or anything I think it's a legit topic of conversation and
You can think it's a legit topic of conversation. And here we are conversing about it. Points have been made about it from multiple posters in this thread, points you seem intent on ignoring. Or do you think "legit topics of conversation" only consist of you stating your opinion and getting full agreement from everyone regardless of how wrong it is?
I think its fair to say the spurs got fleeced by Ujiri and if I was a Spurs fan instead of refuting the reality of the situation I would be frustrated at the Spurs front office not a guy on RealGM criticizing the the bad trade that the Spurs FO made.
Great. Now tell me what the "reality of the situation" is. This is what I find bizarre, that non-Spurs fans see some kind of impending doom for the team that we Spurs fans who know how the team operates don't. Tell me what you see happening from this point onward? And how different would Brandon Ingram, or heck, OG Anonuby make this oh so frightening "reality" for us? Go on. I'll wait.
And again and again and again, the Raptors were going to fleece the Spurs regardless, because they were trading one year of a disgruntled, injured Kawhi Leonard. The Spurs have a great FO but they're not miracle workers like the Lakers' or Bulls'.
Thanks for reading me the Laker riot act. Very predictable hyperbole "We have won 17 titles blah blah blah you will respect it and nobody is our rival besides the Celtics. Even if we lost to another team several times they are not a rival." Spurs have beaten the Lakers more times in the playoffs in the last 40 year than the Celtics but they are not a rival. Just very laughable.
