Rapinoe vs Green... who you got?

[HEKTOR]

In terms of U.S. viewership for the 2018 Men's World Cup final and the 2019 Women's World Cup final, the former drew in 11.4 million viewers compared to the latter's 14.3 million.

awk

Not really. The men didn't qualify for the 2018 WC, while the women were actually in the final.

[SkyHookFTW]

Women should get paid a percentage of the generated revenue, just like the men.

Why? If the league is losing money they can't afford too. Do they want the league to fold? WNBA is a wasteland of dreams that won't come true. The vast majority of basketball fans don't give a damn about the WNBA, and purely based on economics the league is not viable. Of course no one will suggest that the WNBA is an economic failure, promoting a product that very few people want to see and it should be shut down--that person would most likely be accused of being sexist, racist, unwoke, a misogynist, and against the LGBTQ community.

[Harry Garris]

Yeah if we want sustainable viewership for women's sports we can't do some half assed thing where we just throw extra money at them for a few years. There needs to be a cultivation of fandom for the sports, and I still that starts with targeting young people and developing strategies to get them interested in watching women's soccer or basketball. And then you also have to be patient and realize that it isn't going to change overnight, we probably need a few generations of slowly growing fans for women's sports.

You are absolutely correct. The fandom is the key for any product to grow and after I posted I was literally thinking about how women's soccer is still in it's infancy stage and still needs time to grow. Anyway, like everything this is a far more nuanced conversation than people think.

It is not society's role or duty to make people watch sports whether it's played by males or females. Nobody is owed a living.

No one said it was. I'm curious why the idea of people wanting to help women's professional sports grow and succeed upsets you, and why so many other people on this post are bent out of shape about it too.

If you think that businesses succeed or fail purely on their own merit and there are no other factors at play then you might have a really narrow view of reality. Men's basketball wasn't a success right out of the gate at all. The NBA was a second class league to the MLB and NFL and had only niche popularity for about 70 years until the 1980s when Larry Bird and Magic Johnson became the first culturally relevant stars. It took a ton of effort and support to grow that league to what it was today.

So if you think because women's professional sports aren't popular now that means they never will be I don't know what to tell you. People's interests change... Obviously. I would like female athletes to have the same opportunities as male athletes someday. I know that isn't realistic at this point in time. But that doesn't mean it never will be.

[Pharmcat]

In terms of U.S. viewership for the 2018 Men's World Cup final and the 2019 Women's World Cup final, the former drew in 11.4 million viewers compared to the latter's 14.3 million.

awk

Not really. The men didn't qualify for the 2018 WC, while the women were actually in the final.

the other poster stated no one watched women soccer. I just refuted his point, thats all, nothing more

[Pharmcat]

the amount of hate woman get is embodied in this thread. its obvious a large segment of the population has insecurities they cant adequately deal with so they take it out on women by bashing them.

yes, because criticizing women is off limits, right? Whatever they demand should be accepted?
Maybe Megan Rapinoe is an awful person who should shut her mouth and be glad she can make money playing a sport few people want to watch.
Even if I liked Rapinoe, there's no law that says people have to watch certain sports whether it's men or women playing the sport. There are many spoiled athletes from both sexes. They should all be glad that they're living in a world where they can make a living or get wealthy from bouncing, throwing, kicking, or hitting a ball or some other object.

your post just makes my point, thank you

[Pharmcat]

Maybe you should read a book about basic economics.
For one thing claiming the women's soccer team is much better than the men's is most likely ludicrous, but that's beside the point.
People don't want to watch female soccer. I don't like to watch any soccer, men or women's. If it was up to me, all soccer players would have to get honest jobs when they came of age.
But that's beside the point too. Because a few billion people love to watch soccer...men's soccer. So male soccer players get paid a large chunk of money to kick a ball around a field for a few hours while scoring every other month.
Try to overcome your wokeness and understand that nobody deserves to be supported by society just because they perform a certain function. The function has to make other people happy to support that function. If they don't....tough.
So blaming sexism and misogyny for lack of interest in female sports is ridiculous. Why don't you ask your female woke feminist friends why they don't support women's sports.

In terms of U.S. viewership for the 2018 Men's World Cup final and the 2019 Women's World Cup final, the former drew in 11.4 million viewers compared to the latter's 14.3 million.

That's nice..so what? That still doesn't prove that the female players should be paid more. You know why? BECAUSE IF THEY WERE WORTH WHAT THEY WANTED, THEY'D BE PAID THAT MUCH!!!
But they aren't worth what they think they are.


awk

you said no one watched women soccer, I refuted that with facts. The people bashing woman in this thread are going of emotional energy (probably due to their own insecurities re: failure to get the woman they want) instead of the numbers.

[Pharmcat]

I mean, Rapinoe's national teams are vastly superior to the US Men's national team.

A lot of the issue of popularity comes down to investment. If women's sport had the history of investment and promotion that mens' sport had had over the past century, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be just as popular.

our USA mens team cant even beat Honduras

meanwhile the Womens team have been world champs. of course they should get equal if not better pay, they are the better squad

[DrPampiloni]

I mean, Rapinoe's national teams are vastly superior to the US Men's national team.

A lot of the issue of popularity comes down to investment. If women's sport had the history of investment and promotion that mens' sport had had over the past century, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be just as popular.

our USA mens team cant even beat Honduras

meanwhile the Womens team have been world champs. of course they should get equal if not better pay, they are the better squad

They did lose by four goals to an under-16 Dallas squad though...

[yesh]

It's a really difficult topic to discuss without coming off as a sexist arsehole, but there is just no justification for WNBA players to earn anywhere near what the men earn.

I do think Rapinoe needs to remember that USNWT got beaten by an under 15's boys team, which sort of undercuts the argument further, I don't post that to go "ooh look at how bad they are," it's just a fact that they are not a sufficient level to claim parity with the most anticipated and watched sports leagues in the world. I come from a sales background, and absolutely no one in the office earns the same amount because your incomes are tied to revenues generated, so there were women working there that had been there longer and built up their expertise and client base that I had no right to claim I deserved financial parity with, same with the dudes.

It's the same sport but they're different industries.

[510TWSS]

based on the first and last pages only - i expected this thread to be an epic dumpster fire of a thread.

[Ducklett]

I mean, Rapinoe's national teams are vastly superior to the US Men's national team.

A lot of the issue of popularity comes down to investment. If women's sport had the history of investment and promotion that mens' sport had had over the past century, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't be just as popular.

our USA mens team cant even beat Honduras

meanwhile the Womens team have been world champs. of course they should get equal if not better pay, they are the better squad

I think the WNT and MNT should give up some of their budget and put it in youth programs so the Men's soccer team isn't a dumpster fire. I don't know about you, but I went to a high school with ~1200 people in my graduating class and ~5500 kids total and we weren't allowed to have men's soccer, volleyball, and tennis unless we paid for it ourselves and they banned men's Lacrosse because the athletics department wasn't legally allowed to spend the money that having the teams required them to spend for health and safety.

[Pointgod]

This is one of the best posts of the thread, and I think gets at what Rapinoe is saying. It is not about salaries - it is about grass-roots investment in women's sports, as well as a cultural shift where women's sports receives both more funding and support, as well as an acknowlegement that girls need to be encouraged from early childhood that the sky is the limit for them, that they can do whatever they put their minds to, and that existing sexist beliefs about what is "appropriate" for them to pursue in life need to be brought out in the light and destroyed. As with the racial issues we have in our country, this won't happen overnight. It will take true generational change - as older people set in their racist/sexist ways die off (or, more hopefully, renounce those racist/sexist views) and girls see not only structures in place to pursue their dreams, as well as ENCOURAGEMENT of those dreams - as opposed to messaging that they are not biologically wired to be "competative" or that some areas of sports (or career pursuits) are more appropriate for boys/men.

It will take time...but it starts with the acknowedgment that sexism and an imbalanced playing exists in the first place.

Good grief, what baloney. Why don't you ask all your female friends why they don't watch women's sports like they love to watch chick shows, HGTV, cooking shows, and the ridiculous reality shows. I'd bet a very large percentage of the adult female population couldn't name one female soccer or WNBA player. Why don't you demand that they start watching women's sports, and see what kind of luck you have.

IDGAF what people watch. That is not the point here.

Do you know that in many parts of the world - certainly in both Europe and the Far East - women play in professional leagues in both soccer and basketball, and do OK. Not LeBron/Messi OK, but they make a decent living, playing the sport they love. Somehow, the economics work. A big part of that is sponsorships from industries and businesses in those countries (which is part of why uniforms look more like billboards in other parts of the world), but there are companies who believe it is in their best corporate interests to affiliate with women's sports.

What Rapinoe is asking is that, in this country, we invest in structures and promote women's involvement in sports so that both interest in participation grows and - more importantly - that girls can have role models that will inspire them to commit to these sports...which would eventually lead to more revenues to both continue to grow the sport as well as make it possible for these athletes not to have to go to China or Bulgaria to make a few bucks.

Your comments about women watching "HGTV, cooking shows and other reality shows" just confirm your misogynistic way of looking at things. I am both a long-time Eagles season ticket holder, a former Sixers season ticket holder, AND a viewer of "HGTV, cooking shows and the ridiculous reality shows". I assume you will respond with some snarky comment that I am "just like a woman"...which you will think is witty and cute...and will get a chuckle from others on this board. Just remember that when you hit "send" on your brilliant takedown of me that all you are doing is validating the sexist stereotypes that my two daughters will have to fight their way through.

You and Texas Chuck have been far and away the best posters in this thread. I don’t think Draymond Green’s comments were meant to be disrespectful, I just think the delivery sucked. They’re kind of talking about two different situations but I agree with both. It’s crazy how misinterpreted the Women’s US Soccer team position gets. They’re not asking to be paid the same as the men, they’re asking for the same type of investment the Men’s team gets into women’s soccer. And what they’re arguing can’t really be disputed based on the facts. They’re objectively better than the men’s team and they bring in more revenue than the men’s team. I can’t imagine a situation where a team would invest more time, money and development into their worst players than their best players. And Rapinoe and the US teams have been speaking out about that.

The WNBA is a whole different situation because as a league it’s struggled financially and it’s an interesting situation. I think of Kim Kardasian and she’s been able to build a billion dollar brand with zero talent other than being semi famous. This isn’t a slight to her, because she’s obviously an amazing business woman but you think about the US there are roughly 200 million women, why couldn’t that market alone sustain the WNBA? Which brings me back to Draymond’s point about marketing and investment. It’s obvious that the current business model of the WNBA isn’t working and going back to Kim Kardasian what people don’t acknowledge is that a television network invested into Kim Kardasian and paid her for a tv show. The WNBA needs some type of similar investment or big marketing push that can tap in a percentage of that 200 million woman market. They probably need to change the rules to make the game faster, higher scoring to attract casual fans. I watched the women’s NCAA final it was some of the most entertaining basketball I’ve seen in a long time and I absolutely think all NCAA basketball is trash, but there’s no reason that the WNBA can’t capture some of that excitement and maybe NBA players need to start actively promoting and supporting their WNBA counterparts as well.

[Young Stapler]

Current Affairs

*moved*

[Pg81]

Really? These women are earning a guaranteed 100k plus can get money through sponsors and other deals and people here think that is unfair? You know what is unfair? When I see my mother working over 45 years as a nurse in the ICU at a prestigious university clinic doing daily heavy lifting most guys here would not want to do for a week getting a pittance of a wage and pension.
Her last two years before retirement she was forced to go to a desk job helping with research journals and the like for which she was so unprepared she would call me regularly and ask me for help with all the math she had to do. Why did she have to do it? Because after many years of a chronically inflammated right shoulder causing her severe pain which despite many treatments never got much better she also suffered a double break in her foot after slipping on an icy surface. Both combined made her job impossible at that point. She even went 1 year early into retirement because she was done but it cost her 100 Euros of her retirement money. Down from 1k to 900 roughly. Just think for a second losing 10% of your total money even though you basically missed out 1 year out of 45+. And how much did my mother who also gave birth to 4 children, drove to work 200 km a day and still did as much house work as possible helping my step father, a carpenter, who stayed at home because he was earning less than her, earn? Not even 30k Euro a year or under 36k USD a year. That is of course if she was healthy. That wage dropped to 60% whenever she was ill.
Yet I never ever see any of those oh so great "feminists" like Rapinoe even mentioning women like my mother who work themselves to the bone, getting or hearing sexist or mysoginistsic comments on a regular basis at her job, from patients and doctors alike, only to retire on a joke of a pension. I see no one asking for improvements the lot of women working in for society vital jobs, unlike any athletic endeavor.
Please spare me with "this has nothing to do with the topic" comments. It has everything to do with this topic becuase in a nuthsell it is about people feeling that a certain group gets "unfairly" payed compared to another. Oh and just for good measure, I am of the opinion that most high profile athletes are grossly overpayed.
"Jammern auf hohem Niveau" is a really fitting German phrase for this "discussion".

[Roddy B for 3]

-This isn't true. The reason that Women's Tennis is far more popular is because it views better on TV.

People primarily watch Pro Sports to watch Top Athletes do things they cannot.

Women Tennis Players still serve roughly 100 mph, hit down the line backhand winners with pin point accuracy, and have precision drop shots and volleys. Almost nobody in this forum can hit 100 mph serves or killer backhand passing shots.

When the average person watches Women's tennis, they see things they can never come close to doing.

-By contrast, anything you see in the WNBA is stuff everyone here can do and has done. Layups- Check. Bounce Passes-Check. 3 Pointers from less than NBA distance-Check.

Yes, they might make free throws 80% of the time vs my 70% or hit 3's 40% vs my 20%, but you will never find WNBA highlights than people in rhis forum haven't done before.

When you Watch the WNBA, it looks like watching a small school High School game (below the rim, rarely anyone above 6'4", relatively slowly paced, etc)

You think you can just walk into the WNBA and be at their level?

You clearly didn't read my post. I said that anything they do I can do, just maybe not as well.

For example, post any highlight and I can go do the same thing in my driveway.

This isn't true for tennis. It would take years and years to match certain shots they do outside of like a 1/10,000 miracle shot. This is because tennis is so technique oriented.

I'm sure Suge Bird has thrown passes that you cannot make. And even if you physically could make the pass, im sure she has made that pass in intense enough moments, where you wouldnt see it and therefore wouldnt make it.

The speed, verticality and physicality of the two leagues is different.

Just because I can theoretically out like Phil Mickelson "just maybe not as well" dosen't take away from Mickelsons short game, and is basically a meaningless Comment.

I mean, I can run just like Usain Bolt, "just maybe not as well".

Just say you perfer NBA over WNBA because of the spactactularness of the NBA athletisisim.

Athletisisim=/=Basketball fwiw.

Maybe athletisisim is the reason you like NBA, thats fine.

[Roddy B for 3]

Men and women's Bball will always have a fundamental difference imposed by biology. Doen't necessarily mean one is better than the other.

sorry, but yes it does. that's the entire point of physical sports. and in basketball especially that difference is really glaring.

Better is always in the eye of the beholder.
Better is always an objective word.

You Comment tells me, you think mens biology is superior to Womens. As far as makings "better" Basketball.

Well, thats objective. Imo watching UConn women play Baylor women is "better" Basketball than watching disintrested DeAngelio Russell play for an injury riddeled Twolves

[The4thHorseman]

I assume this thread won’t last long.

270 posts later ......

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

To me this is Occam's razor. It's simple that men's sports are more entertaining because men are all together the superior athletes when taken on a professional level. If you want to get to the social aspect of why we may pay more attention to men's sports, fine. But that doesn't change reality. 2021 was the most watched NCAAW tournament ever I think it was, per ratings, and it was the worst for men's side in 30+ years and the average Sweet 16 draw was something like 16 M to 4 M viewers, men's and women's respectively (that doesn't even account for the whole tournament, but I'll leave it there).

This whole notion of equality for equality sake is a case of bad logical reasoning. You give me a woman and a man working at a company, making similar revenues, having a similar work load, pay equality all the way. Sue them into oblivion if they aren't fairly paying women. This isn't the same though, it's a Red Herring, and simply intellectually dishonest to try to come and cry foul.

If you look at the whole US Women's Soccer case, they are essentially arguing that because they are a winning team that they deserve more money. What happens if the rest of the world catches up and they are just another team? Does that mean that if a women's team is more successful than a man's team that they should be paid more despite their sport taking in a fraction of what the other side does? Should the WNBA's championship team's players should make more than the worst NBA team?

And I know I'm going to get into trouble for this, but what sport can you think of where both teams know the rules and have a similar amount of practice time would the the women beat the men? Here we are full circle, women's sports are an inferior product, by-and-large. Not in all cases, but by-and-large.I didn't make human physical capabilities, its simply just the truth. In some animal species, like we are, the females are more physically dominate. Just so happens human man on average are dominate compared to human females.

[Cavsfansince84]

No one said it was. I'm curious why the idea of people wanting to help women's professional sports grow and succeed upsets you, and why so many other people on this post are bent out of shape about it too.

If you think that businesses succeed or fail purely on their own merit and there are no other factors at play then you might have a really narrow view of reality. Men's basketball wasn't a success right out of the gate at all. The NBA was a second class league to the MLB and NFL and had only niche popularity for about 70 years until the 1980s when Larry Bird and Magic Johnson became the first culturally relevant stars. It took a ton of effort and support to grow that league to what it was today.

So if you think because women's professional sports aren't popular now that means they never will be I don't know what to tell you. People's interests change... Obviously. I would like female athletes to have the same opportunities as male athletes someday. I know that isn't realistic at this point in time. But that doesn't mean it never will be.

I'm not upset about it. If it succeeds I'm fine with that and if it doesn't that's fine with me too. I mean women's tennis has been a huge and successful sport for a long time as has a lot of the female Olympic sports which turned many women into household names. Women's golf is also somewhat successful as is women's mma. I just feel like women like Rapinoe and some of the wnba players act like the only thing holding back their sports is patriarchal men who are against the idea of them succeeding. When I don't think that's actually the case. I think people just aren't that into watching them play their sport on a professional level and there's absolutely nothing inherently good or bad about that.

[Pg81]

Men and women's Bball will always have a fundamental difference imposed by biology. Doen't necessarily mean one is better than the other.

sorry, but yes it does. that's the entire point of physical sports. and in basketball especially that difference is really glaring.

Better is always in the eye of the beholder.
Better is always an objective word.

You Comment tells me, you think mens biology is superior to Womens. As far as makings "better" Basketball.

Well, thats objective. Imo watching UConn women play Baylor women is "better" Basketball than watching disintrested DeAngelio Russell play for an injury riddeled Twolves

In terms of explosiveness, speed, acceleration and strength yeah men are significantly superior to women. This is not even to be contested anymore this is a proven fact. The only physical aspect women can hang with men are endurance sports. Outside of that? Men outdo women by anyhere between 20%-30% roughly and that is a more than a gap, it is a gulf.
Also better is not in the eye of the beholder. Your personal enjoyment does not mean that what you enjoy was better. Millions enjoy fast food crap like McGarbage and Burger Crap yet fast food is demonstrably terrible in terms of nutritious value. Whether it tastes "better" or not is of no relevance whether it is actually better food than some homecooked meal with homegrown ingredients for example.