Giannis just made a lot of these nba stars look pathetic

[MrSparkle]

The Lebron/Durant “legacies” look pretty limp now.

[NoStatsGuy]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

Did KD and LeBron do the same?

i cant remember

[LesGrossman]

Dirk had way worse of a supporting cast . What dallas player was as good as Middleton or JRue?

This is important. I am very glad the Bucks won, for the sake of league hygiene and proving ring chasers and superteam builders wrong, but i think Dirks title was the most meaningful one in the last 20 years. Then probably the Spurs 2014 and the Bucks, followed by the Raptors.

[GSP]

Dirk had way worse of a supporting cast . What dallas player was as good as Middleton or JRue?

I mean even Brook Lopez was doing this in closeout Ecf games WITHOUT Giannis when he isn't out there just camping at the 3 to space the floor for him



Tyson Chandler was a more mobile defender but not the rim protector, post defender or overall better player than Brook and Tyson might have been the Mavs 2nd best player that year it's either him or a 38yo Jkidd

Kids are really showing their age if they're tryna pretend Giannis carried some below average or dump team to a ring. Bucks weren't a super team but they were a terrific supporting cast with a great coach. Khris is one of the best wings in the league and Jrue is an elite playmaker and one of the best defensive Pgs in Nba history. Pat, Portis, Tucker, Donte (had him VS Miami) are all very good role players too

[WeSkrongDen]

Dirk had way worse of a supporting cast . What dallas player was as good as Middleton or JRue?

This is important. I am very glad the Bucks won, for the sake of league hygiene and proving ring chasers and superteam builders wrong, but i think Dirks title was the most meaningful one in the last 20 years. Then probably the Spurs 2014 and the Bucks, followed by the Raptors.

Stats wise Jason Terry played better that playoff run than Middleton or Holiday.

[WeSkrongDen]

Dirk had way worse of a supporting cast . What dallas player was as good as Middleton or JRue?

I mean even Brook Lopez was doing this in closeout Ecf games WITHOUT Giannis when he isn't out there just camping at the 3 to space the floor for him



Tyson Chandler was a more mobile defender but not the rim protector, post defender or overall better player than Brook and Tyson might have been the Mavs 2nd best player that year it's either him or a 38yo Jkidd

Kids are really showing their age if they're tryna pretend Giannis carried some below average or dump team to a ring. Bucks were a terrific supporting cast with a great coach

Jason Terry was really good, easily the 2nd best player. Chandler was a better rim protector and player than Lopez.

The numbers are clear. Giannis had arguably the most nuts finals in history, Middleton and Holiday had negative offensive-defensive ratings. Series would have been a wipe if they played better.

[MrSparkle]

Dirk had way worse of a supporting cast . What dallas player was as good as Middleton or JRue?

This is important. I am very glad the Bucks won, for the sake of league hygiene and proving ring chasers and superteam builders wrong, but i think Dirks title was the most meaningful one in the last 20 years. Then probably the Spurs 2014 and the Bucks, followed by the Raptors.

Really? Terry, Kidd, Marion, Chandler, Barea, Peja and a pair of wing stoppers in Stevenson and Brewer don’t do it for ya? Also had Caron in the regular season. Multiple wings/tweeners to throw at Lebron, elite rim protection (Haywood off bench too), and no answer for Terry. It was before Miami addressed its front-court depth (Battier, Birdman). They were playing Joel Anthony.

Dirk had a great championship; was elated to see the divas exposed. But he hardly did it alone; he had a defensive fortress and vet HOF support.

Giannis is very lucky that his team closed against ATL - a team led by green kids. If they had to play Durant with Giannis down, I can’t imagine BRK losing game 7. The one thing you can say about MIL is they have very good two-way players, but Khris and Jrue are not finals caliber scorers. Giannis played out his damn mind. Dude closed with a 50/14/2/5 statline and we’re talking about his teammates?

[WeSkrongDen]

I would definitely take that Mavs team over this Bucks team and it's not because I think Dirk is better than Giannis.

[GSP]

Dirk had way worse of a supporting cast . What dallas player was as good as Middleton or JRue?

I mean even Brook Lopez was doing this in closeout Ecf games WITHOUT Giannis when he isn't out there just camping at the 3 to space the floor for him



Tyson Chandler was a more mobile defender but not the rim protector, post defender or overall better player than Brook and Tyson might have been the Mavs 2nd best player that year it's either him or a 38yo Jkidd

Kids are really showing their age if they're tryna pretend Giannis carried some below average or dump team to a ring. Bucks were a terrific supporting cast with a great coach

Jason Terry was really good, easily the 2nd best player. Chandler was a better rim protector and player than Lopez.

The numbers are clear. Giannis had arguably the most nuts finals in history, Middleton and Holiday had negative offensive-defensive ratings. Series would have been a wipe if they played better.

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

[MrSparkle]

I mean even Brook Lopez was doing this in closeout Ecf games WITHOUT Giannis when he isn't out there just camping at the 3 to space the floor for him



Tyson Chandler was a more mobile defender but not the rim protector, post defender or overall better player than Brook and Tyson might have been the Mavs 2nd best player that year it's either him or a 38yo Jkidd

Kids are really showing their age if they're tryna pretend Giannis carried some below average or dump team to a ring. Bucks were a terrific supporting cast with a great coach

Jason Terry was really good, easily the 2nd best player. Chandler was a better rim protector and player than Lopez.

The numbers are clear. Giannis had arguably the most nuts finals in history, Middleton and Holiday had negative offensive-defensive ratings. Series would have been a wipe if they played better.

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

Chandler’s only skill in the NBA was rim protection, and he enjoyed a good NBA career thanks to it. If Brook never developed his 3P, he’d probably be defending rims in China at this point.

Terry played excellent defense. Even guarded SFs in his time in ATL. And he was a very consistent scorer. Find me another guard with a 20+ PER in the playoffs. Hint: Khris and Jrue were below 17.

[MINDKCUF]

The only reason he won was that other stars got injured.

the only reason kawhi won w/ raptors is injury to warriors
the reason warriors won 1st against cavs was injury to cavs
reason lakers won cause of heat injuries
etc. etc. etc.

looking back no one cares who got injured, they just care who one.

[GSP]

Jason Terry was really good, easily the 2nd best player. Chandler was a better rim protector and player than Lopez.

The numbers are clear. Giannis had arguably the most nuts finals in history, Middleton and Holiday had negative offensive-defensive ratings. Series would have been a wipe if they played better.

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

Even old J Kidd was an all star the season before in 2010 and Jet was on the team too. Chandler had an all star season in New York. Jet was never an all star level player and if he was in the league now with the shooters and scorers there are now he'd be even lower on the totem pole. Jet was a dime a dozen spark 6th man scorer that plays no defense like Jordan Clarkson and Jamal Crawford ultimately very replaceable and nowhere in the stratosphere of a Middleton or Jrue

[GSP]

Jason Terry was really good, easily the 2nd best player. Chandler was a better rim protector and player than Lopez.

The numbers are clear. Giannis had arguably the most nuts finals in history, Middleton and Holiday had negative offensive-defensive ratings. Series would have been a wipe if they played better.

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

Chandler’s only skill in the NBA was rim protection, and he enjoyed a good NBA career thanks to it. If Brook never developed his 3P, he’d probably be defending rims in China at this point.

Terry played excellent defense. Even guarded SFs in his time in ATL. And he was a very consistent scorer. Find me another guard with a 20+ PER in the playoffs. Hint: Khris and Jrue were below 17.

Wrong. Chandler could switch, was an elite pick and roll finisher, lob and roll man and offensive rebounder. He was literally an all star in New York

Brook would be the starting center on most teams in the league and be much more dangerous offensively if he could post up and be a roll man like when he dominated with Giannis out

Stopped reading at "Terry played excellent defense" you haven't a clue what you're talking about

[MrSparkle]

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

Even old J Kidd was an all star the season before in 2010 and Jet was on the team too. Chandler had an all star season in New York. Jet was never an all star level player and if he was in the league now with the shooters and scorers there are now he'd be even lower on the totem pole. Jet was a dime a dozen spark 6th man scorer that plays no defense like Jordan Clarkson and Jamal Crawford ultimately very replaceable and nowhere in the stratosphere of a Middleton or Jrue

Go look at a stat sheet to refresh your memory.

I guess Kyle Korver joins the pantheon of greats since he made an ASG... the end-all measure of a NBA player. Manu was only 1 ASG better than Korver, so I guess they must’ve been interchangeable talents.

[WeSkrongDen]

I mean even Brook Lopez was doing this in closeout Ecf games WITHOUT Giannis when he isn't out there just camping at the 3 to space the floor for him



Tyson Chandler was a more mobile defender but not the rim protector, post defender or overall better player than Brook and Tyson might have been the Mavs 2nd best player that year it's either him or a 38yo Jkidd

Kids are really showing their age if they're tryna pretend Giannis carried some below average or dump team to a ring. Bucks were a terrific supporting cast with a great coach

Jason Terry was really good, easily the 2nd best player. Chandler was a better rim protector and player than Lopez.

The numbers are clear. Giannis had arguably the most nuts finals in history, Middleton and Holiday had negative offensive-defensive ratings. Series would have been a wipe if they played better.

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

Terry had 6 years with a 3 or higher BPM and VORP. Holiday and Middleton both had 1 each. Terry had 1 year with a 4 or higher in both. None for Middleton or Holiday.

In the playoffs for their championship runs:
Terry- .179 WS/48, 4.6 BPM, 1.1 VORP
Middleton- .115 WS/48 2.6 BPM, 1.1 VORP
Holiday- .111 WS/48, 2.4 BPM, 1.0 VORP

Terry> Middleton and Holiday

[MrSparkle]

Jet was pretty good not close to really good. If he was really good he'd have sniffed an all Star game. He was a good inconsistent scorer, didn't pass and never played any defense. He wasn't better than Jkidd or Chandler. And Tyson wasn't a better rim protector than Brook

Chandler’s only skill in the NBA was rim protection, and he enjoyed a good NBA career thanks to it. If Brook never developed his 3P, he’d probably be defending rims in China at this point.

Terry played excellent defense. Even guarded SFs in his time in ATL. And he was a very consistent scorer. Find me another guard with a 20+ PER in the playoffs. Hint: Khris and Jrue were below 17.

Wrong. Chandler could switch, was an elite pick and roll finisher, lob and roll man and offensive rebounder. He was literally an all star in New York

Brook would be the starting center on most teams in the league and be much more dangerous offensively if he could post up and be a roll man like when he dominated with Giannis out

Stopped reading at "Terry played excellent defense" you haven't a clue what you're talking about

Oh yeah another guy with 1 ASG in his 20y career. Everybody was lining up for Chandler’s elite offense. Don’t get me wrong- pogo stick could catch and dunk a ball, but it ended there. The PnR wasn’t a threat unless Paul or Kidd were throwing the lob. And 1 fluke D’Antoni Duhon ASG appearance isn’t enough data to make Chandler join the Malones of PnR finishers on Mt. Rushmore.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=crawfja01&player_id1=terryja01&sum=0&request=1

Go look at advanced stats.

[NyCeEvO]

some of these stars, kd at least, has tweeted a congrats.

i would like to think that giannis has reminded these guys of why they play the game. yes they all want to win a ring, but they didn't grow up or even enter the league wanting to amass talent in order to smother the rest of the league,,,,,,,,except maybe lebron.

they play the game to "compete". giannis just now reminded tem of that

I disagree. They all grew up in the shadow of MJ. During their childhoods, MJ was considered the GOAT by the majority of fans, and he was also the first global superstar athlete.

The players who lost to MJ, and especially those who never won a championship, are more often talked about as stepping stones to Jordan’s ascendency than respected as the truly talented superstars that they were. It’s truly a shame that the careers of HOF players like Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Reggie Miller, and now CP3 are denigrated simply because they were on teams didn’t win.

IMO, as a result of this dichotomy between the praise given to MJ and the criticism given to stars who didn’t win given by the fans and the media, the next generation of stars did not want the stigma and derision that came along with failing to win a championship.

How many 20-somethings do you know who are completely secure about their identity and don’t care about judgment from their peers, let alone the media and fans throughout the world. I can’t imagine growing up in an era of 24/7 news and social media where your livelihood is offered up for public consumption and critique.

While I personally don’t like when elite stars team up with other elite stars, I understand why many desire to do it and seek to avoid being “ringless”.

I blame the media and fans for valuing the careers of non-title winners as worthless and not warranting respect or admiration. If we could actually have mature and healthy conversations about players, I guarantee that a lot of players would be happier sticking with their teams and wouldn’t feel shame by the prospect of not winning a title.

[nikster]

Giannis run was impressive but doesn't mean we have to crap on other titles. It's not like LeBron didn't have to still play at this kind of HOF level to win. Durant Warriors we always knew were weak.

And Giannis may not have a super team but his team was able to close out 2 straight ECF games without him

[WeSkrongDen]

some of these stars, kd at least, has tweeted a congrats.

i would like to think that giannis has reminded these guys of why they play the game. yes they all want to win a ring, but they didn't grow up or even enter the league wanting to amass talent in order to smother the rest of the league,,,,,,,,except maybe lebron.

they play the game to "compete". giannis just now reminded tem of that

I disagree. They all grew up in the shadow of MJ. During their childhoods, MJ was considered the GOAT by the majority of fans, and he was also the first global superstar athlete.

The players who lost to MJ, and especially those who never won a championship, are more often talked about as stepping stones to Jordan’s ascendency than respected as the truly talented superstars that they were. It’s truly a shame that the careers of HOF players like Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Reggie Miller, and now CP3 are denigrated simply because they were on teams didn’t win.

IMO, as a result of this dichotomy between the praise given to MJ and the criticism given to stars who didn’t win given by the fans and the media, the next generation of stars did not want the stigma and derision that came along with failing to win a championship.

How many 20-somethings do you know who are completely secure about their identity and don’t care about judgment from their peers, let alone the media and fans throughout the world. I can’t imagine growing up in an era of 24/7 news and social media where your livelihood is offered up for public consumption and critique.

While I personally don’t like when elite stars team up with other elite stars, I understand why many desire to do it and seek to avoid being “ringless”.

I blame the media and fans for valuing the careers of non-title winners as worthless and not warranting respect or admiration. If we could actually have mature and healthy conversations about players, I guarantee that a lot of players would be happier sticking with their teams and wouldn’t feel shame by the prospect of not winning a title.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It's the AAU approach that KD and LeBron used, which permeates the NBA now. Let's team up & win the tournament with 4 other highly ranked HS players, run little to no offense because we're so much more talented & bigger than everyone else. You can also say this is why our basketball product is suffering and so many of the next gen superstar players are foreign born.