2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt. 1)

[mcmurphy]

Yes hes very good in terms of stats in the regular season.

Hes also a bad defender on a team that has never been good defensively.

And he was severely outplayed by LeBron and Davis in the WCF when he had a real chance to win a Championship.

I need to see more than great regular stats to pretend like hes the best player in the world. Common sense.

do you refer to KD?

2010-11: Lost NBA Western Conference Finals (1-4) versus Dallas Mavericks
2011-12: Lost NBA Finals (1-4) versus Miami Heat
2012-13: Lost NBA Western Conference Semifinals (1-4) versus Memphis Grizzlies
2013-14: Lost NBA Western Conference Finals (2-4) versus San Antonio Spurs
2015-16: Lost NBA Western Conference Finals (3-4) versus Golden State Warriors

In the PO Jokic had as 3th man with most minutes:

2018-19 Gary Harris
2019-20 Jerami Grant
2020-21 Austin Rivers

In the PO KD had as 3th man with most minutes:

2010-11 Harden
2011-12 Harden (4th- Ibaka (All-Defensive (1st) in season))
2012-13: Ibaka ((All-Defensive (1st) in season))
2013-14: Ibaka (All-Defensive (1st) in season)
2015-16: Ibaka

I avoid writing KD teammates post 2016.

[BelgradeNugget]

Talent level of the league is just higher than it was back then.

Led by the guy absolutely demolishing the PER single season record by over 2.5 points above 2nd place, while missing two max contract players. Insanity.

Leads league in:
PER (all time) at 35
VORP
OWS
WS/48
BPM
OBPM
DBPM

While throwing up 27/14/7 on 58/37/75 splits and 66% TS.

Bonkers.

Yes hes very good in terms of stats in the regular season.

Hes also a bad defender on a team that has never been good defensively.

And he was severely outplayed by LeBron and Davis in the WCF when he had a real chance to win a Championship.

I need to see more than great regular stats to pretend like hes the best player in the world. Common sense.

Just points where you are wrong. The rest is opinion and it is OK to have one.

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic is probably the MVP of the Regular season but his defensive ability makes him somewhat of a liability over a 7 game series.

And the earth is flat. Why are some people speaking of his defense as liability? It is year 2021, he is very good defender. What is next to point to his scoring and passing as liabilities?

[Bruin]

Jokic is my pick. What he’s doing with the team around him is truly special. The only knock is his team’s record (his team sucks without both Jamal and MPJ) and yet they’re still in a playoff position. As long as the Nuggets finish with a top 5 seed (only 1.5 Games back right now), he’s my pick for mvp

[Hobo4President]

You know someone's a casual when they're still talking about Jokic as a bad defender

[MindState]

Curry is in probably the biggest slump of his career, but if he can keep his PPG up and the Warriors in the #1 spot until he breaks out, I think the media wont knock him out of the top spot.

[giberish]

The Warriors are very well designed for Curry to win MVP. They've got a lot of quality depth, going well over 2-deep with quality rotation players all around. That will greatly help them to win a lot of regular season games. Meanwhile Curry's by far the best player on the team. The closest thing to a #2 guy rarely scores in double digits. So there's no sharing of credit at all - the media's going to give Curry all of it.

Comparatively -

Jokic has no competition for credit, but so little surrounding quality that it will be tough for him to drag Denver much above .500 - and MVP's are usually given to top teams.

Giannis and Durant both have relatively marquee secondary players (Middleton and Harden) to take some of the credit away from them, while their rosters lack the high quality depth of GS so they probably don't end up with any more wins then GS (and probably less).

The other current top teams (Phoenix and Utah) don't have a clear top guy to get MVP consideration.

[Infinite Llamas]

When watching Jokic, especially on offense, you quickly see that he is involved mightily in nearly every play. He pretty much never takes a possession off. He sets monster screens, directs players where to go when he plays off ball. Fights to get position for offensive rebounds. The man is literally like the conductor of a symphony, but at the same time, playing all the instruments himself. It’s amazing to watch.

It also makes you understand why things fall apart when he isn’t in the game. Jokic is their offensive system. But really, I don’t think I would change anything because when Jokic is in, beautiful basketball is played.

[mediocrityrules]

Obviously Giannis is my guy, but i can't ignore that Jokic is sitting above him right now in terms of individual play this season. Jokic has been incredible, but just doesn't have a cohesive, talented unit around him.

[Mickey8]

When watching Jokic, especially on offense, you quickly see that he is involved mightily in nearly every play. He pretty much never takes a possession off. He sets monster screens, directs players where to go when he plays off ball. Fights to get position for offensive rebounds. The man is literally like the conductor of a symphony, but at the same time, playing all the instruments himself. It’s amazing to watch.

It also makes you understand why things fall apart when he isn’t in the game. Jokic is their offensive system. But really, I don’t think I would change anything because when Jokic is in, beautiful basketball is played.

Thats on Malone and Denver's front office. Malone for not having any system when Jokic is out of the game or when he's missing the games and the front office always keep surrounding Jokic with the limited players , especially in the back court, undersized ,bad three point shooting guards .

[Woodsanity]

Jokic is probably the MVP of the Regular season but his defensive ability makes him somewhat of a liability over a 7 game series.

Have you watched a single Nuggets game this season? He has been a very good defender this season. Probably a result of much better conditioning. When he is actually on the court the Nuggets are very good on offense and defense. The problem is when he is on the bench....

[Genjuro]

I don't think it will translate into votes as it is right now, but the MVP tracker looks like this at this moment:
1. Jokic: 30.2%
2. Curry: 20.1%
3. Giannis: 16.4%
4. Durant: 12.6%

[BoatsNZones]

I don't think it will translate into votes as it is right now, but the MVP tracker looks like this at this moment:
1. Jokic: 30.2%
2. Curry: 20.1%
3. Giannis: 16.4%
4. Durant: 12.6%

That’s wild that Jokic even has a % leaad on their tracker with their record (granted, first I’ve seen a lead for him per their tracker and it will lower after the Dubs win tonight). He’s white (there may be a different reason he is not generally regarded as a top 1-3 player in the league, but I can’t find it) and has not been to the Finals yet, so yeah 0% of a repeat unless they’re HCA. As much as we want to argue actual value, those are the facts as far as realistic MVP voting is concerned.

[AleksandarN]

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[VanWest82]

Nets are the #1 seed in the East despite no Kyrie and playing a bunch of completely washed guys every game. KD just followed up a 50 piece with a 34/13/11 vs. Raps tricky superstar defense. It was pretty darn impressive. He has a better shot than I think people are giving him credit for.

[GSP]

Nets are the #1 seed in the East despite no Kyrie and playing a bunch of completely washed guys every game. KD just followed up a 50 piece with a 34/13/11 vs. Raps tricky superstar defense. It was pretty darn impressive. He has a better shot than I think people are giving him credit for.

A Harden who might not be a top 20 player anymore either or at least nowhere close to his prime form. This poll doesnt really reflect reality in any way. Its very strange

Actually Vegas odds ATM for Mvp

Steph +150
Kd +200
Giannis +750
Jokic +1200
Luka +2800
Embiid +3300
Pg +4000
Trae +4000

then you have alot of players in +5000

[BoatsNZones]

Nets are the #1 seed in the East despite no Kyrie and playing a bunch of completely washed guys every game. KD just followed up a 50 piece with a 34/13/11 vs. Raps tricky superstar defense. It was pretty darn impressive. He has a better shot than I think people are giving him credit for.

A Harden who might not be a top 20 player anymore either or at least nowhere close to his prime form. This poll doesnt really reflect reality in any way. Its very strange

Actually Vegas odds ATM for Mvp

Steph +150
Kd +200
Giannis +750
Jokic +1200
Luka +2800
Embiid +3300
Pg +4000
Trae +4000

then you have alot of players in +5000

Where are those odds lol?

All online books have it Curry +120 and KD the next closest at +450. I’m looking at them right now.
The straw poll of 100 potential actual voters taken a little over a week ago had Curry with 94/100 1st place votes.

[_NoMas]

Feels like people have been desperate to give Curry MVP since about 10 games in. Reality is over the last 8 games he’s averaging 22.6, 5 rebounds 4.5 assists shooting 35 from the floor and 35 from 3. His number 1 seed keeps him probably third over Jokic, but KD and Giannis should be 1 and 2 right now

[JN61]

Feels like people have been desperate to give Curry MVP since about 10 games in. Reality is over the last 8 games he’s averaging 22.6, 5 rebounds 4.5 assists shooting 35 from the floor and 35 from 3. His number 1 seed keeps him probably third over Jokic, but KD and Giannis should be 1 and 2 right now

Of course they are. Just see how desperate media was for his 3 point record breaking which stood less than 10 years. He is NBAs golden boy and they never talk about his downfalls and talking them on these forums get you instantly attacked.

[Ron Swanson]

Who cares about the Vegas odds and the "narrative" BS? I always assume (even if wrongly so) the discussion on this board should focus on the actual numbers correlating to who's having the best individual season combined with leading their team to enough wins to qualify. And at this point Curry's individual numbers are incredibly mediocre for an MVP "favorite" (he'd have the lowest PER, WS/48, BPM, etc. since 2011 Rose), and aren't even close to either Jokic or Giannis. Maybe you can disqualify Jokic for now until the Nuggets are more than a game above .500. Fine, but Giannis and Jokic have clearly been the best two players by the numbers this season. The "1-seed" crap only really matters if the numbers are close, and so far, they aren't. They're in two entirely separate tiers for me:

Giannis
Jokic

*gap*

Curry
Durant