2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[basketballRob]

I already posted your starting lineup's usage stats and FGAs which suggest otherwise, not to mention both Cole and Jalen have been missing time with injury.

How many players on Toronto have been out with injury. OG, Siakam, Boucher, and wasn't GTJ.

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Firstly Boucher is not a starter so irrelevant lol it's only OG or Pascal that have been out individually, not at the same time (Trent has missed maybe a game & Scottie is out with the same protocols now) which still puts Scottie as the 4th option out of 5 players on the court with ALL other starters receiving more FGAs per game. Again I posted your starting lineup, Franz is 2nd and both Cole & Suggs have been out which vaults him to the top of the list on a team begging for offence (2nd last in the entire league)....

Scottie averages more FG attempts than Franz not sure why you're trying to argue that Franz has more opportunity.

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[Gasolina]

Can we have a moratorium on RotY shizzleflinging until the last month of the season?

[orlando_joe]

I already posted your starting lineup's usage stats and FGAs which suggest otherwise, not to mention both Cole and Jalen have been missing time with injury.

How many players on Toronto have been out with injury. OG, Siakam, Boucher, and wasn't GTJ.

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Firstly Boucher is not a starter so irrelevant lol it's only OG or Pascal that have been out individually, not at the same time (Trent has missed maybe a game & Scottie is out with the same protocols now) which still puts Scottie as the 4th option out of 5 players on the court with ALL other starters receiving more FGAs per game. Again I posted your starting lineup, Franz is 2nd and both Cole & Suggs have been out which vaults him to the top of the list on a team begging for offence (2nd last in the entire league)....

yet barnes gets more shots a game then franz and more ft...so what is your point ..other then team dont plan for barnes?

[PhilBlackson]

How many players on Toronto have been out with injury. OG, Siakam, Boucher, and wasn't GTJ.

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Firstly Boucher is not a starter so irrelevant lol it's only OG or Pascal that have been out individually, not at the same time (Trent has missed maybe a game & Scottie is out with the same protocols now) which still puts Scottie as the 4th option out of 5 players on the court with ALL other starters receiving more FGAs per game. Again I posted your starting lineup, Franz is 2nd and both Cole & Suggs have been out which vaults him to the top of the list on a team begging for offence (2nd last in the entire league)....

Scottie averages more FG attempts than Franz not sure why you're trying to argue that Franz has more opportunity.

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Scottie would be able to produce MORE if he were to move from 4th/last option to 2nd/1st option as Franz has/is, just because FW has less attempts doesn't mean SB wouldn't produce more in the same role. Really isn't a hard concept to wrap your head around as you guys are making it for yourselves lol but whatever helps you guys sleep at night - I'll let it go so we can stop going in circles.

[orlando_joe]

How many players on Toronto have been out with injury. OG, Siakam, Boucher, and wasn't GTJ.

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Firstly Boucher is not a starter so irrelevant lol it's only OG or Pascal that have been out individually, not at the same time (Trent has missed maybe a game & Scottie is out with the same protocols now) which still puts Scottie as the 4th option out of 5 players on the court with ALL other starters receiving more FGAs per game. Again I posted your starting lineup, Franz is 2nd and both Cole & Suggs have been out which vaults him to the top of the list on a team begging for offence (2nd last in the entire league)....

Scottie averages more FG attempts than Franz not sure why you're trying to argue that Franz has more opportunity.

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should have read last page..lol..before i made comment

[SOUL]

These arguments are so **** tiring. It's mostly fans just trying to pump their own players while barely watching the other players. As much as I **** on Raps fans in the earlier threads, all I see are Magic fans getting in the same dumb arguments. Just appreciate what Franz is doing without trying to pinpoint if he's the 2nd/3rd/4th best, who cares in general let alone in December? Later in the year there can be real discussion for ROY stuff because there is a lot of season left.

I do think if Barnes puts up similar numbers to Mobley/Cade/Franz/whoever else and his team is better and the advanced stats shows how impactful Barnes is, he should win ROY.. but the same goes for Mobley too.

I think for guys like Cade/Giddey/Franz/etc to win, their teams have to win more and they have to keep their stats up while Barnes/Mobley have to dip quite a bit, at least currently. Usually it's just whoever puts up the best stats for rookies but some of them are on teams that are decent (Raps) to good (Cavs) so it makes it different.

[SOUL]

Not the most efficient night for Franz (10-24) but showing scoring ability 25/4/1 with 2 blocks. He forces his shots sometimes in the paint but that's because he also makes ridiculous drives.

[basketballRob]

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[MoneyTalks41890]

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This guy is a strong player. Orlando has an interesting mix of prospects.

[LoveMyRaps]

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This guy is a strong player. Orlando has an interesting mix of prospects.

Are Fultz and Isaac still considered prospects? Cuz I'm still a believer... I think Fultz has 6MOY candidate potential and Isaac can be Siakam-lite.

Injuries suck man. But yeah Orlando does have some very intriguing prospects. I hope Suggs doesn't go down the same road as the two aforementioned guys.

[LoveMyRaps]

Your comparison lacks context aswell. Wagner is having big creation burden, 25,8 % of his offense is as p&r ball handler and teams started to game plan against him becouse he is number 1 option at times. No one is putting schemes how to stop Barnes becouse he is number 4-5 option scoring mostly on cuts, putbacks and in transition. When you put Barnes on the Magic you cant just assume he would score with same efficiency becouse his role now is totally different. He is actually worse driving to the rim with much better spacing. Remember Orlando is starting with 2 centers. You put Barnes who is awful spoting up with 2 centers and you can predict results.
I am not saying Barnes would be worse but you cant assume he would be better. Looking at stats its more probable that his numbers would be actually lower on the Magic.

What is this utter nonsense you've come up with about Barnes being mainly putbacks & transition?! Lol truly laughable...perhaps confusing him with Mobley. Scottie is easily one of, if not the most diversified scorers in this draft class...

You're clearly not watching and running off an old narrative from his college days. Scottie is a true 3 level scorer, he only needs to continue to improve his shooting percentages (which he is ahead of Franz at 2pt% and a fraction off from 3pt%) but there is literally very few things Barnes hasn't shown offensively that he can't do (he already routinely hits pull up 2s & 3s, hook shots, post game, stepbacks, drives to the basket, fadeaways, mid-range and on n on...) besides bomb a 3 from the logo so no he wouldn't struggle with your C's and in fact all it would do is help his assist numbers as he'd finally have someone who can catch lob or drop off too. Everdisco already did a deep dive into his numbers but he's one of the least assisted to scorers in this draft class. I suggest you actually go watch some footage of Scottie on the season and he's far from some rudimentary energy player as you've made his game sound like and that's not even touching on how he's light years ahead as a passer...

It's not even logical to think that if he was elevated from last option to first or second option (as Franz is) that somehow his volume numbers would drop especially when he is seemingly improving by the week, if not game and that's not an exaggeration to anyone actually watching as clearly you aren't.

Franz is the 3rd or 4th option behind Cole, Suggs, and a combination of Mo/WCJ.

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This man just casually lied through his teeth.
You can fool a couple casuals but there's actually a bunch of folks here that watch other teams like the Magic as well.

[God Squad]

People are way to invested in rookie of the months, or ROY for that matter.

[LoveMyRaps]

People are way to invested in rookie of the months, or ROY for that matter.

Only thing I have a problem with is constantly comparing the rookies against each other. They've only played 30 or so games, so the comparisons don't hold enough credibility as the sample size simply isn't large enough.
Like it's okay to discuss their ceilings/floors, strengths/weaknesses, etc. but what exactly is the point of comparing them to one another? I don't get it...

[mediocrityrules]

People are way to invested in rookie of the months, or ROY for that matter.

Only thing I have a problem with is constantly comparing the rookies against each other. They've only played 30 or so games, so the comparisons don't hold enough credibility as the sample size simply isn't large enough.
Like it's okay to discuss their ceilings/floors, strengths/weaknesses, etc. but what exactly is the point of comparing them to one another? I don't get it...

I think it's even an issue talking ceiling/floor etc. There was someone the other day referring to Giddey as a guy that doesn't look like he'll amount to more than a good, solid role player. I mean this is the second-youngest guy in the NBA, and you think you can project his ceiling after 30 games?? from a guy that just turned 19 in October.

This is way too much of a 'hot take' thread than it needs to be.

Also, I'm happy for everyone to talk up their own favorites as much as they like, just don't do it by bringing others down to make your point.

[God Squad]

People are way to invested in rookie of the months, or ROY for that matter.

Only thing I have a problem with is constantly comparing the rookies against each other. They've only played 30 or so games, so the comparisons don't hold enough credibility as the sample size simply isn't large enough.
Like it's okay to discuss their ceilings/floors, strengths/weaknesses, etc. but what exactly is the point of comparing them to one another? I don't get it...

I think it's even an issue talking ceiling/floor etc. There was someone the other day referring to Giddey as a guy that doesn't look like he'll amount to more than a good, solid role player. I mean this is the second-youngest guy in the NBA, and you think you can project his ceiling after 30 games?? from a guy that just turned 19 in October.

This is way too much of a 'hot take' thread than it needs to be.

Also, I'm happy for everyone to talk up their own favorites as much as they like, just don't do it by bringing others down to make your point.

Yeah man, I just don't understand the constant bashing of other teams prospects. Especially because I firmly believe this is going to be one of those specials drafts where not only is it top heavy, but plenty of starters/role players throughout.

[God Squad]

Anyways not much going for Rookies tonight other than Franz,Bones, Giddey and Sengun.

Wagner with a cool 25 pts, but on 24 shots. The one thing that confuses me about Wagner is his suspect rebounding for such a mobile and big guy.

Bones and the Nuggets for that matter had a rough night.

Sengun always seems to contribute when givin minutes, but he's still very much a work in progress defensively. Also seems to turn it overs a fair bit.

Didn't see any of Giddey, but SGA had a hell of a night.

[anotherhomer]

I been slowly watching a few more highlights of Franz Wagner.
He looks pretty impressive.

Let's just say in any other year, Franz would be a legit ROY candidate as with other players like Giddey, etc.

Wagner, Cade, Giddey, Mobley, Barnes all have extremely promising futures.
Congrats on your excellent pick at #8

Not to mention other players who can potentially breakout (Jalen Green, Suggs, etc)

These arguments are so **** tiring. It's mostly fans just trying to pump their own players while barely watching the other players. As much as I **** on Raps fans in the earlier threads, all I see are Magic fans getting in the same dumb arguments. Just appreciate what Franz is doing without trying to pinpoint if he's the 2nd/3rd/4th best, who cares in general let alone in December? Later in the year there can be real discussion for ROY stuff because there is a lot of season left.

I do think if Barnes puts up similar numbers to Mobley/Cade/Franz/whoever else and his team is better and the advanced stats shows how impactful Barnes is, he should win ROY.. but the same goes for Mobley too.

I think for guys like Cade/Giddey/Franz/etc to win, their teams have to win more and they have to keep their stats up while Barnes/Mobley have to dip quite a bit, at least currently. Usually it's just whoever puts up the best stats for rookies but some of them are on teams that are decent (Raps) to good (Cavs) so it makes it different.

[JonFromVA]

fwiw, the concept of empty stats on bad team is not strictly about efficiency, but more about general defensive disinterest from opponents. Teams tend to only play as hard as needed to win, and will give up meaningless points.

[basketballRob]

What is this utter nonsense you've come up with about Barnes being mainly putbacks & transition?! Lol truly laughable...perhaps confusing him with Mobley. Scottie is easily one of, if not the most diversified scorers in this draft class...

You're clearly not watching and running off an old narrative from his college days. Scottie is a true 3 level scorer, he only needs to continue to improve his shooting percentages (which he is ahead of Franz at 2pt% and a fraction off from 3pt%) but there is literally very few things Barnes hasn't shown offensively that he can't do (he already routinely hits pull up 2s & 3s, hook shots, post game, stepbacks, drives to the basket, fadeaways, mid-range and on n on...) besides bomb a 3 from the logo so no he wouldn't struggle with your C's and in fact all it would do is help his assist numbers as he'd finally have someone who can catch lob or drop off too. Everdisco already did a deep dive into his numbers but he's one of the least assisted to scorers in this draft class. I suggest you actually go watch some footage of Scottie on the season and he's far from some rudimentary energy player as you've made his game sound like and that's not even touching on how he's light years ahead as a passer...

It's not even logical to think that if he was elevated from last option to first or second option (as Franz is) that somehow his volume numbers would drop especially when he is seemingly improving by the week, if not game and that's not an exaggeration to anyone actually watching as clearly you aren't.

Franz is the 3rd or 4th option behind Cole, Suggs, and a combination of Mo/WCJ.

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This man just casually lied through his teeth.
You can fool a couple casuals but there's actually a bunch of folks here that watch other teams like the Magic as well.

Franz is a higher option when a bunch of players are injured.

The most commonly used starting lineup has been with Cole, Suggs, and Wagner. Cole averages 23.5 shots per 100 possessions, Suggs 21.4, and Franz 19.5.

[ThunderBolt]

People are way to invested in rookie of the months, or ROY for that matter.

Well most of them play on teams whose fans have little else to be excited about.