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Vampirate wrote:spanishninja wrote:Vampirate wrote:
Stop using the regular season to boast up your team in the playoffs. Bucks fans were doing this for years with the SRS argument, you don't see them using it now.
Fwiw the Rose Bulls I believe had the regular season series against the Heat, and then the playoffs happened.
You are acting like you have the championship in the bag regardless of opponent if everyone is healthy and basically have no flaws on your team. Arrogance.
Also face it, your team blew it last year. The Bucks were also 2-0 against the 2019 raptors as well and lost 4 in a row, your team couldn't close the deal.
he simply said Memphis was our biggest obstacle, not that no team from the east are obstacles.
And isn't it a little dishonest to bring up the Bulls as an example, when it was the Rose injury that screwed them, and not the idea that they were only a regular season team?
Also, this choking narrative has got to stop. Phoenix was not an overwhelming favorite in that series. Nobody expected them to sweep the Bucks after the 2-0 lead. It was their first finals. They had accrued some key injuries by then. That series loss is not a choke by any means. I don't know where the idea came from that a team not winning the title on their first try means they choked.
If you are up 2-0 and have a chance to put the series away and you are regarded as the favourite and don't it's regarded as a choke.
The reason why I bring up the Bulls though is simply they ran into Lebron at his peak with the Heat. As did Indiana did with Paul George.
This is why I bring up the Bucks, if we are talking the best players 2-5 and so on I have no qualms in saying the Suns have the edge.
However Giannis is an All Time great and in the playoffs, if you have an All Time great on your side in his peak/prime, you basically have the advantage.
There's just no player on the Suns that comes close to Giannis impact.
In short, ATG do ATG things when in their peak/prime, and it's something you need to account for in the playoffs.
The Bucks without Giannis are fodder, but he just makes that team very scary in the playoffs. Keep in mind, the 2019 had probably the best roster to contain him and he still got his and good-great efficiency, just not as good as his RS numbers.
Vampirate wrote:One of the best reasons why you should take regular season records with a grain of salt. The Bucks 100% look like the superior team here.
Point being, until Memphis proves themselves in the playoffs, the Suns biggest challenge would be the Bucks unless they don't come out of the East.
One team is playoff tested and still has a superstar top 5 player in his prime, the other is an up and coming team with a Derrek Rose like player on their team in terms of athleticism.
spanishninja wrote:
Per your point about Giannis, I very clearly pointed out that I could see Milwaukee being favored over us if that was the finals matchup again, did I not? I also said that the Suns specifically made offseason adjustments with the goal of doing better against Giannis.
jcsunsfan wrote:Thee Suns biggest obstacle to a championship is Memphis. Not any team in the EAst.
bwgood77 wrote:Vampirate wrote:One of the best reasons why you should take regular season records with a grain of salt. The Bucks 100% look like the superior team here.
Point being, until Memphis proves themselves in the playoffs, the Suns biggest challenge would be the Bucks unless they don't come out of the East.
One team is playoff tested and still has a superstar top 5 player in his prime, the other is an up and coming team with a Derrek Rose like player on their team in terms of athleticism.
A 2 game lead and a playoff tested Raptors team? Is that when they had Kawhi? With Kawhi I thought they were the favorite. Those series with the Sixers and Bucks were very very close too. Heck, they had a crazy shot to knock out the Sixers.
Vampirate wrote:spanishninja wrote:
Per your point about Giannis, I very clearly pointed out that I could see Milwaukee being favored over us if that was the finals matchup again, did I not? I also said that the Suns specifically made offseason adjustments with the goal of doing better against Giannis.
Tbh that's more a counterpoint to Memphis being the Suns biggest challenge which I disagree on, as to what jcsunsfan said. I'll clarify a bit further.jcsunsfan wrote:Thee Suns biggest obstacle to a championship is Memphis. Not any team in the EAst.
I don't see Memphis as your teams biggest threat. They are as green as your team was last year. A challenge? Sure. Biggest challenge in the West? There's an argument on that.
I still see the Bucks as the biggest challenge just because well....they made the finals and won and have the best player on the court. Again, it was more an argument on jcsunsfan's point and you just happened to quote my argument against him, sorry for the confusion.
jcsunsfan wrote:Vampirate wrote:spanishninja wrote:
Per your point about Giannis, I very clearly pointed out that I could see Milwaukee being favored over us if that was the finals matchup again, did I not? I also said that the Suns specifically made offseason adjustments with the goal of doing better against Giannis.
Tbh that's more a counterpoint to Memphis being the Suns biggest challenge which I disagree on, as to what jcsunsfan said. I'll clarify a bit further.jcsunsfan wrote:Thee Suns biggest obstacle to a championship is Memphis. Not any team in the EAst.
I don't see Memphis as your teams biggest threat. They are as green as your team was last year. A challenge? Sure. Biggest challenge in the West? There's an argument on that.
I still see the Bucks as the biggest challenge just because well....they made the finals and won and have the best player on the court. Again, it was more an argument on jcsunsfan's point and you just happened to quote my argument against him, sorry for the confusion.
OK. That is a fair argument. However, I do not see the Bucks favored in a finals matchup. Of course, that depends on how the playoffs play out. Injuries, teams ascending and descending. All kinds of things can happen over the course of four 7-game series'.
schnakenpopanz wrote:Like I said before, it's all circumstantial.
Do you consider Stockton/Malone as Loosers? it is so hard to get to the finals , let alone win the whole damm thing.
Every suns fan would have been OK with reaching the PO prior to the 20/21, but they developed and progressed.
it was not only by getting one star there and then overachieving.
You set the goal so high that it seems like champions or bust. In fact this is a development of a team in shambles for 11 years, with a **** owner and a reputation of 0 culture.
Heck Ayton was called a bust by some prior to the 20/21 campaign, Booker a liability on defense and empty stats guy.
So people are either downplaying them or just don't recognise a good team overall.
When you read the board to some it is debatable if booker/cp3 are top 20 in the league.
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Vampirate wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Vampirate wrote:One of the best reasons why you should take regular season records with a grain of salt. The Bucks 100% look like the superior team here.
Point being, until Memphis proves themselves in the playoffs, the Suns biggest challenge would be the Bucks unless they don't come out of the East.
One team is playoff tested and still has a superstar top 5 player in his prime, the other is an up and coming team with a Derrek Rose like player on their team in terms of athleticism.
A 2 game lead and a playoff tested Raptors team? Is that when they had Kawhi? With Kawhi I thought they were the favorite. Those series with the Sixers and Bucks were very very close too. Heck, they had a crazy shot to knock out the Sixers.
Yes, the same Raptors team who folded time and time again against Lebron. Lebronto.
Even with Kawhi and Gasol and minus, the rest of the cast was still there keep in mind.
We all thought Lowry's bad rep in the playoffs was undeserved, but still doubts as the team as a whole persisted.
Prior to the championship, Raptor fans were still having PTSD on the chocking fears, even with Kawhi there. (The issue wasn't so much kawhi but the rest of the cast)
Years of having the Raptors shrink to Lebron conditioned us like that, even when he was just a 1 man army. Keep in mind, Boston put up a much better fight and had a worse record than us in Derozan's final year as a Raptor.
The Casey Raptors were well known as chockers.
When the Bucks went up 2-0 the fanbase at the time had doomsday scenarios going through their head (prior bad playoff experience), everyone analyst had the bucks winning, easily etc.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
Vampirate wrote:One of the best reasons why you should take regular season records with a grain of salt. The Bucks 100% look like the superior team here.
Vampirate wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Vampirate wrote:One of the best reasons why you should take regular season records with a grain of salt. The Bucks 100% look like the superior team here.
Point being, until Memphis proves themselves in the playoffs, the Suns biggest challenge would be the Bucks unless they don't come out of the East.
One team is playoff tested and still has a superstar top 5 player in his prime, the other is an up and coming team with a Derrek Rose like player on their team in terms of athleticism.
A 2 game lead and a playoff tested Raptors team? Is that when they had Kawhi? With Kawhi I thought they were the favorite. Those series with the Sixers and Bucks were very very close too. Heck, they had a crazy shot to knock out the Sixers.
Yes, the same Raptors team who folded time and time again against Lebron. Lebronto.
Even with Kawhi and Gasol and minus, the rest of the cast was still there keep in mind.
We all thought Lowry's bad rep in the playoffs was undeserved, but still doubts as the team as a whole persisted.
Prior to the championship, Raptor fans were still having PTSD on the chocking fears, even with Kawhi there. (The issue wasn't so much kawhi but the rest of the cast)
Years of having the Raptors shrink to Lebron conditioned us like that, even when he was just a 1 man army. Keep in mind, Boston put up a much better fight and had a worse record than us in Derozan's final year as a Raptor.
The Casey Raptors were well known as chockers.
When the Bucks went up 2-0 the fanbase at the time had doomsday scenarios going through their head (prior bad playoff experience), everyone analyst had the bucks winning, easily etc.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
binjumper wrote:Vampirate wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
A 2 game lead and a playoff tested Raptors team? Is that when they had Kawhi? With Kawhi I thought they were the favorite. Those series with the Sixers and Bucks were very very close too. Heck, they had a crazy shot to knock out the Sixers.
Yes, the same Raptors team who folded time and time again against Lebron. Lebronto.
Even with Kawhi and Gasol and minus, the rest of the cast was still there keep in mind.
We all thought Lowry's bad rep in the playoffs was undeserved, but still doubts as the team as a whole persisted.
Prior to the championship, Raptor fans were still having PTSD on the chocking fears, even with Kawhi there. (The issue wasn't so much kawhi but the rest of the cast)
Years of having the Raptors shrink to Lebron conditioned us like that, even when he was just a 1 man army. Keep in mind, Boston put up a much better fight and had a worse record than us in Derozan's final year as a Raptor.
The Casey Raptors were well known as chockers.
When the Bucks went up 2-0 the fanbase at the time had doomsday scenarios going through their head (prior bad playoff experience), everyone analyst had the bucks winning, easily etc.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
As a Raptors fan since the carter days and before. I didn't feel what you felt at all. With Lebronto is some weak stuff to say tbh. Internet trolls really don't sway sports.
Kawhi brought a pedigree that we didn't have before and it was nothing but trust since then. I thought we were the best team in the league. Showed it going 17-5 without Kawhi.
Vampirate wrote:I'm just more annoyed that Suns fans are using the 2014 Spurs and the 2004 Pistons as examples of how they can win it when in reality non of the 3 teams are close to each other.
The Pistons had probably the best defender of all time and the best defense of all time.
The Spurs had the best Coach and (while not in his prime) the best PF of all time and had won before.
Both teams went up against Basically super teams with All Time greats and won. It's why the comparisons between this Suns team and those championship teams shouldn't be made.
The Suns have one of the best but aging PG of all time, like Tim Duncan on that Spurs team, however the rest of the team doesn't have the quality of that Spurs team.