Shams: New York Knicks Fire Head Coach Tom Thibodeau

[Cavsfansince84]

Getting rid of Thibs absolutely had to happen if the Knicks were going to win a title in the next 5 years.

[basketballRob]

Malone may sit out since he's getting paid through 2026-2027. If he signs with NY, he'd give up the $12m per year he's already getting.

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[tamaraw08]

I understand a re-thread may not work but for every 1 Mark Daigneault, there's a few more Wes Unseld Jr, Chauncey Billups, Kokoskov, Earl Watson, etc.

I agree but its a risk we have to take to make it further. Thibs is not a bad coach but he had some very severe flaws that limited our ceiling.

Every coach has flaws—just like every roster does. I don’t understand the logic behind calling the firing a “necessary risk.” The coaching staff should’ve been given a chance to retool and learn from last year’s mistakes. Starting over doesn’t solve the underlying issues with the roster or player personnel. This isn’t even a calculated risk—there’s no clear upgrade available. It feels more like an unnecessary gamble made just for the sake of change.

I really think playing role players like Wright, Shamet etc, playing Robinson more etc were reallly good moves. Having said that, I was not a fan of Brunson dribbling too much which kind of made their offense too predictable imo.
I would like to know if the FO asked Thibs if he was open to hiring assistant coaches who are more knowledgeable in creating more offensive schemes to maximize the roster's strengths and Thibs said NO!

[hundreth]

I don't think people will agree with you.

Now they won't, because it's a narratives driven league. But before the series the general board had the Knicks as the favorites to win the series. Why? Which is it?

Because most people thought the Knicks had the best player and 2 out of the top 3. If you had told people that Brunson would not be the best player and Brunson/KAT would not be the best duo, i think the voting would change pretty quick. They were seperated in the RS by what, 2 games? This was an even series where Siakam really stepped up and KAT/Brunson's defense were really exposed (especially when they shared the court).

Could perfect coaching have saved them, maybe. But perfect coaching doesnt exist. Fire him, dont fire him, maybe you get better, maybe you get worse. But they are in the finals today if their best guys play better than the other teams best guys. And no matter who they get to coach them next year, the same will remain true. They only win when their best is the best on the court

Brunson / KAT didn't play bad. A few bounces go the other way and the narrative would be that our top two outplayed theirs. Siakam definitely played out of his mind but Hali did his disappearing act in a few games. The series goes a different direction and then all the focus is on Hali's issues instead of Brunson's. These games are won on the margins. Which is why coaching is so important.

A few changes here or there and everything is different.

All of these guys had their moments in the series. Trying to reduce the whole series to two players is extremely reductive. I just don't agree with that. I think a big part of the reason our defense suffered was because of coaching. You can make adjustments to mitigate these issues. Carlisle perfectly executed a strategy to expose our problems, Thibs did not do the same in turn.

[___Rand___]

Been a staunch Thibs defender here since his Twolves days and thought he did a good job this past season. We need better than good, though. We need somebody willing/able to completely re-envision this team on offense and on defense. Three high-level defenders in the starting five and two on the bench, plus two high-level scorers in the starting five and three others able to step up at any given time--that said, the parts never worked together smoothly, and our bench seemed consistently lost.

As I've posted before, Thibs was our Mark Jackson. Here's hoping we find our Steve Kerr--the young, hungry coach who sees a way to make all these parts fit in a new way.

There's no Steph and Klay in waiting. But this is your championship or broke as the team traded away 5 1st round picks so yeah, gotta try something different.

Etc., etc. Yeah, bUt wE hAvE No GoOd PlAyErS!!!

Here's the thing: when Brunson was out (and Robinson still unsteady), we were forced to go to a freer 5-out offense and use our bench...and after about a week of growing pains...suddenly we started to play well again. Very well.

And then Brunson came back, Robinson got fully healthy...and we went back to the very predictable offensive sets (basically hero-ball with Brunson and KAT...) that helped lose us this latest series.

Thanks, though, for making my point. While the splash brothers also technically played for Jackson, they only became a thing because of Kerr really seeing the unique make-up of his team, deciding then to move on from traditional roles and go all in on making opposing teams play to the Warriors' strengths.

That's what the Knicks need in a new coach.

Yeah it's too bad because the next Kerr has been hired by Denver. So you're going to get used coaches. Knicks' FO has bet their careers on this roster. This roster has to win a chip. They are not going to bring an unknown to coach them - too much is at risk. It'll be one of the 3 former title winning coaches who are available will get the job here.

[Mr B]

Read on Twitter

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If this true what are the chances the Knicks go with a young coach like Jared Dudley. He worked with Brunson on the Mavs staff and the players love him. Former player too of course.

[taikibansei]

There's no Steph and Klay in waiting. But this is your championship or broke as the team traded away 5 1st round picks so yeah, gotta try something different.

Etc., etc. Yeah, bUt wE hAvE No GoOd PlAyErS!!!

Here's the thing: when Brunson was out (and Robinson still unsteady), we were forced to go to a freer 5-out offense and use our bench...and after about a week of growing pains...suddenly we started to play well again. Very well.

And then Brunson came back, Robinson got fully healthy...and we went back to the very predictable offensive sets (basically hero-ball with Brunson and KAT...) that helped lose us this latest series.

Thanks, though, for making my point. While the splash brothers also technically played for Jackson, they only became a thing because of Kerr really seeing the unique make-up of his team, deciding then to move on from traditional roles and go all in on making opposing teams play to the Warriors' strengths.

That's what the Knicks need in a new coach.

Yeah it's too bad because the next Kerr has been hired by Denver. So you're going to get used coaches. Knicks' FO has bet their careers on this roster. This roster has to win a chip. They are not going to bring an unknown to coach them - too much is at risk. It'll be one of the 3 former title winning coaches who are available will get the job here.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. I.e., you don't know ****.

I personally want to wait until we make the next hire before judging.

[azcatz11]

What coaches are under CAA umbrella?

Look out for John Calipari.

You’re joking right?

[jokeboy86]

And yet Doc Rivers still has a job.....

[Anticon]

He's their most successful coach in 20 years and the only point of continuity over the past 5 years outside of the front office. It's not that easy to develop a program and structure, and he did that well, despite his well known coaching tendencies.

The idea that this is a contending team that needs a coaching change to get over the hump is the wrong analysis. If anything, you may see them take steps back, if they lose structure.

I'm a big fan of Malone, but he has shown his flaws in the past few years. I'm not sure he's the right coach for New York. Thibs was so basketball focused I don't think the New York environment was a distraction at all to him.

[TroubleS0me]

If the Knicks hadn't had those 2 comebacks and lost to Boston (ideally without Tatum getting hurt) Does Thibs still get fired? Because they weren't expected to beat the Celtics, and he did beat them. So if they lose in 6 and never get to the third round, maybe he keeps his job?

he would have been fired

[Wingy]

One of our posters speculated that Thibs started making lineups adjustments (Shamet/Wright) in the Pacers series due to management pressures.

Whether that's true or not, management went out and got those guys for him this year and he refused to use them until the situation or management themselves forced his hand. That's... gonna piss 'em off especially since both players clearly helped when we started to use them. That's ticket out of town material.

That’s also a ticket for ruining relationships with agents and their clients who probably had some indication their players would have a role when they sign that never materialized.

Wright and Shamet had some nice moments, but let’s not act like they were huge difference makers that were going to overcome their stars’ shortcomings. Their contributions are getting way overhyped by some.

I’m sure no one’s getting upset given these guys are typically glad to have an NBA job. Look up their recent career journeys.

[Capn'O]

What is the point in having Thibs as your coach if your defense is subpar? You can defend him by saying guys like Brunson and Towns hurt the ability to have a good defense...However, then wouldn't it be smarter to have a coach who can devise ways to score more efficiently?

You can look at it the other way too. If the defense is not good enough with thibs, how bad will it be with another coach?
In terms of offense, I don't know what type of offense can you implement with Brunson holding the ball so much. Tom Thibodeau is not known to run just iso offense. He even used triangle sets/principles in Chicago, and that is the opposite of iso basketball.

I look at it as... the personnel and coach didn't really fit and we're in a position where firing the coach is easier than upgrading personnel.

If we want to take the final step, I think firing Thibs is the right move but we have to make an excellent hire for it to pay off. You can just as easily hire Fred Hoiberg as Phil Jackson.

[TroubleS0me]

He got fired because of game 1 definitely. Losing a game like that really did it for him. Losing game 2 made it worse.

[GiannisAnte34]

wait, are they trading for JJ Redick?

I could see them hiring Malone

I can't help but wonder, Does Giannis like Malone?

Giannis vetoed Nurse so probably not

[Wargreymon]

Good. He deserved to get fired for refusing to develop a bench and running starters into the ground. He’s the reason Derrick Rose career was destroyed.

[Wingy]

They don’t play the same positions, and Hali did out play him this year and he does need to get better. However, it’s not a consistent thing. A better example would be Derozan and Lebron. Lebron use to own Derozan year after year, and eventually the Raptors traded him for Kawhi because Lebron can’t just outplay Kawhi and then the Raptors won a championship.

Sometimes change is good.

This is a terrible analogy and you know it. One, it had nothing to do with LeBron, and he signed with the Lakers before the trade was made. It's freaking Kawhi Leonard, of course you trade Derozan for him, even for the one year rental. And who is this coach who's head and shoulders above Thibs that the Knicks are going to hire?

Either you take the lesson from history or not. When the goal is a championship you can’t afford to be sentimental and think anything less is acceptable.

There is no lesson. Horrific attempt at a “parallel.”

Tell me the next time a star coach gets injured, thus tanking his usual value.

[phanman]

So the Knicks should take a chance that Thibs is going to learn how to run an offense next year? That he's not the same coach he's been his entire career?

You call the Knicks moving on a gamble but not that?

Should the Knicks waste another year only to discover that Thibs yet again ran his players into the ground and went Brunson ISO all post season? Big surprise. Even if the Knicks don't win next season you start to turn the ship in the right direction.

You keep regurgitating the fact he can't coach and offense but somehow ignore the fact that they finished 5th in ORTG at 118.5. Offense wasn't the issue against Indiana, it was their defense and the inability to slow down that ridiculous pace that the Pacers ran. Outside of Mikal, every other starter shot > 56%TS. The star duo in particular played well offensively:
- Brunson 30.7pts & 5.7ast on 63.2%TS (50/35/92)
- KAT 24.8pts & 1.8ast on 60.7%TS (50/37/77)

I think it's insane they fired Thibs. He had his flaws, but he also did what few coaches can do and that is have his guys play hard. The history of past Knicks coaches is not impressive at all. People who keep mentioning Malone, need to realize he has the same flaw of overplaying his starting unit.

Man I don't care what the numbers say because we all watched the series with our own eyes. Brunson and Towns making circus shots all series to keep us in it doesn't change the fact that the offense was horrific. If you look at the Knicks game threads throughout the entire postseason you will see fans from every team clown our offense and wonder why we don't run any plays. We look completely different from every other team in the league.

Ahh the good ol eye test.

It's not circus shots if they consistently make it. KAT's drives may look funky, but he was virtually unstoppable going against Turner or Pascal.

[Longranger]

Lost twice in the playoffs to their dreaded rivals. Yeah, he had to go.

[Ssj16]

Fired the coach that just got them to the ECF for the first time since 99' smh.

i mean Denver fired their coach right before the playoffs and it was the coach that helped them win a chip.

Pretty sure Jokic got Malone fired. Dumb decision. They are now a treadmill team.

Knicks, especially Brunson, has been vocal how much they support Thibs. This is management being idiots. And now will be a treadmill team. Like the Nuggets.

This doesn't even make any sense. Malone lost the locker room which was clear as day.

This is like saying Lakers should have kept Darvin Ham because he got the Lakers to a conference finals.

People also forget about the firing of David Blatt after he got them to 1 finals and look how that worked out for Cleveland.

One thing that is true about Thibs until proven otherwise, his players get rundown or his teams flame out in the playoffs.

Definitely risky for NYC but if they do their due diligence, there are definitely upgrades out there.