Are people lower on Cooper Flagg?

[Ayt]

I think he might not be an elite scorer, but he'll still have an elite overall impact. Kind of like KG, which has always been his comp.

That's a terrible comp considering KG was so much taller and longer. They play a completely different type of game.

[tsherkin]

I think he might not be an elite scorer, but he'll still have an elite overall impact. Kind of like KG, which has always been his comp.

That's a terrible comp considering KG was so much taller and longer. They play a completely different type of game.

Only if you consider the aesthetic. If you think about it in terms of value as a defender, playmaker and 2nd option type scorer, then it's a little better a match. KG wasn't a tier-1 scorer, but he found a lot of ways to add value to his team with his versatility and two-way play.

[dirkdiggler4177]

Dude is improving from game to game. He looks more loose and creative now, understanding that he can get his and has no need to rush and doesn't panic when stuck

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

Dude is improving from game to game. He looks more loose and creative now, understanding that he can get his and has no need to rush and doesn't panic when stuck

He definitely looked good in this one. The Pels suck, of course, which made it easier, but it's a game he can build on. And I love seeing him use the left hand, and just how good he is at reading the spin. He is VERY comfortable feeling the defender's coverage and spinning off, does it a ton. And he's quick, man. People don't talk about how quick he is enough. Throws a nice outlet pass, passes ahead well in transition.

Lots to like about Flagg.

[FrodoBaggins]

Dude is improving from game to game. He looks more loose and creative now, understanding that he can get his and has no need to rush and doesn't panic when stuck

He definitely looked good in this one. The Pels suck, of course, which made it easier, but it's a game he can build on. And I love seeing him use the left hand, and just how good he is at reading the spin. He is VERY comfortable feeling the defender's coverage and spinning off, does it a ton. And he's quick, man. People don't talk about how quick he is enough. Throws a nice outlet pass, passes ahead well in transition.

Lots to like about Flagg.

I believe some people don't think he's as quick as he is because of how long his stride is. Guys with shorter legs look quicker, even if they're not actually covering as much ground in a given period of time. A quick first step + a long stride is a lethal combo; really hard to stay in front of someone like that. Harden and Dantley are great examples for smaller guys. Bosh and D-Rob for bigs?

[dirkdiggler4177]

Dude is improving from game to game. He looks more loose and creative now, understanding that he can get his and has no need to rush and doesn't panic when stuck

He definitely looked good in this one. The Pels suck, of course, which made it easier, but it's a game he can build on. And I love seeing him use the left hand, and just how good he is at reading the spin. He is VERY comfortable feeling the defender's coverage and spinning off, does it a ton. And he's quick, man. People don't talk about how quick he is enough. Throws a nice outlet pass, passes ahead well in transition.

Lots to like about Flagg.

I believe some people don't think he's as quick as he is because of how long his stride is. Guys with shorter legs look quicker, even if they're not actually covering as much ground in a given period of time. A quick first step + a long stride is a lethal combo; really hard to stay in front of someone like that. Harden and Dantley are great examples for smaller guys. Bosh and D-Rob for bigs?

There is some truth to this. When Tom Cruise runs in movies, he moves his arms really fast back and forth, and takes small steps, to appear to be running faster than he really is

Watch on YouTube

[Ice Man]

So far, this season's pattern resembles last year's. Flagg was erm, OK, for the first month as an NCAA freshman, which elicited some gossip about maybe how he wasn't all that. About one month in, he figured it out and boom, immediately jumped to the next level.

This year, he was struggling with his shot through the first 12 games. That was the real problem with his performance, as he was otherwise playing respectably by veteran NBA standards, and very well indeed by teenage standards. Since then he has gone

8-13
9-16
6-10
12-19

That's while bricking his 3s; over that stretch, he's shooting 71% on his 2s, on 32 for 45.

Oh, and on a different point, Derik Queen is a true marvel. LOVE that guy.

[FrodoBaggins]

Some more stats:

Season

- 16 games played; 33.6 mpg
- 16.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.2 topg
- 27.4% 3PT (3.9 3pa/g), 54.8% 2PT (9.7 2pa/g), 78.8% FT (3.3 fta/g), 54.6% TS

- 11/28 on pull-up threes (39.3% on 1.8 3pa/g)
- 13/40 on pull-up twos (32.5% on 2.5 2pa/g)
- 6/34 on catch-and-shoot threes (17.6% on 2.1 3pa/g)
- 3/3 on catch-and-shoot twos (100% on 0.2 2pa/g)
- 165 drives (10.3/g), 53/87 FG (60.9% on 5.4 2pa/g), 17/22 FT (77.3% on 1.4 fta/g), 126 points (7.9 ppg), 9 assists (0.6 apg), 10 turnovers (0.6 topg), 1.18 ppp (scoring only/no passes)

Last 6 games

- 6 games played; 35.5 mpg
- 20.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.0 topg
- 28.0% 3PT (4.2 3pa/g), 68.3% 2PT (10.5 2pa/g), 61.5% FT (4.3 fta/g), 61.8% TS

- 5/11 on pull-up threes (45.5% on 1.8 3pa/g)
- 7/16 on pull-up twos (43.8% on 2.7 2pa/g)
- 2/14 on catch-and-shoot threes (14.3% on 2.3 3pa/g)
- 3/3 on catch-and-shoot twos (100% on 0.5 2pa/g)
- 60 drives (10.0/g), 28/34 FG (82.4% on 5.7 2pa/g), 5/10 FT (50.0% on 1.7 fta/g), 63 points (10.5 ppg), 3 assists (0.5 apg), 3 turnovers (0.5 topg), 1.52 ppp (scoring only/no passes)

[Ice Man]

60 drives (10.0/g), 28/34 FG (82.4% on 5.7 2pa/g), 5/10 FT (50.0% on 1.7 fta/g), 63 points (10.5 ppg), 3 assists (0.5 apg), 3 turnovers (0.5 topg), 1.52 ppp (scoring only/no passes)

Thanks for the stats, very interesting! If you assembled the same stats for Dallas's guards, you'd find something like -

35% FG%
Huge amount of TOs
A few assists

As the stats indicate, Cooper has figured out in a hurry how to finish at the NBA level. The next step, and that will take several years, is to start racking up assists by getting a better understand of where, how, & when to kick out the ball.

The other thing to notice is that Cooper's early season role has been mostly to stand in the corner and take catch-and-shoot 3s, and that's the very task that he is worst at.

[FrodoBaggins]

60 drives (10.0/g), 28/34 FG (82.4% on 5.7 2pa/g), 5/10 FT (50.0% on 1.7 fta/g), 63 points (10.5 ppg), 3 assists (0.5 apg), 3 turnovers (0.5 topg), 1.52 ppp (scoring only/no passes)

Thanks for the stats, very interesting! If you assembled the same stats for Dallas's guards, you'd find something like -

35% FG%
Huge amount of TOs
A few assists

As the stats indicate, Cooper has figured out in a hurry how to finish at the NBA level. The next step, and that will take several years, is to start racking up assists by getting a better understand of where, how, & when to kick out the ball.

The other thing to notice is that Cooper's early season role has been mostly to stand in the corner and take catch-and-shoot 3s, and that's the very task that he is worst at.

Agreed. Brandon Williams is at 0.89 ppp on drives, while D'Angelo is at 1.08. Naji also at 1.08. So, Cooper's already the best driver (1.18), and it's only getting more apparent over time. Might as well run things through him at the top of the three-point line, ala LeBron. It's statistically the best offense right now and ideal for long-term development.

[KokoKaizer]

He's on the rise and his team doesn't help him

[FrodoBaggins]

Cooper's biggest issue right now is spot-up shooting. That's what's largely tanking his 3PT% and TS%. Kon Kneuppel and Cedric Coward have been lights-out on catch-and-shoot threes:

Kon: 37.5% 3PT on 6.9 attempts
Cedric: 42.4% 3PT on 4.1 attempts
Cooper: 17.6% 3PT on 2.1 attempts

If Cooper had made 8 more catch-and-shoot threes, he'd be shooting 41.2% on 2.1 attempts, and he'd be averaging 17.9 ppg and 59.6% TS on the season.

[Duke4life831]

Dude is improving from game to game. He looks more loose and creative now, understanding that he can get his and has no need to rush and doesn't panic when stuck

Watch on YouTube

Just to add to this some. Saw some comments early on in the season that he had to work way too hard for his shots (which was true).

But as he’s adjusted, you can see he’s far more loose age comfortable, the shots are coming much easier for him. Whether it’s his driving becoming more efficient, whether it’s using his left hand more (which I said before the draft might be the most slept on thing about him), tossing in that little hook shot out of the spin move. Even if the jumper still isn’t falling, his pull up jumpers are more in flow of things. Everything starting to look much more natural for him.

Also ya I get this was against the Pels. But he was defended by Herb Jones a lot last night. Herb is an elite perimeter defender. And Trey Murphy isn’t a great defender, but is long and athletic.

[bonita_the_frog]

Cooper is headed for a 20ppg rookie season even without improving his 3s!
Coop will be 18ppg by the end of December and 20ppg by the end of the season...
Plus to be honest i don't want Coop to improve his 3s, because when players become good at 3s they shoot too many, and 3s are bo-ring.

[FrodoBaggins]

Crazy broad frame. He was making fully-developed pros like Deni (6'9", 240) and Jerami (?) look narrow. He's going to be an absolute bull with 15 to 20+ pounds of added size and strength from a few offseasons of NBA-level strength & conditioning.

[Duke4life831]

Another thing to think about with Flagg, I know the bad quality of the roster construction has been talked about a lot so far this year. But to me one of the biggest issues with it when it comes to Flagg, it’s having zero facilitators on the roster. No one on the roster to make getting an easy shot for Flagg. Just a quick comparison with some of the other rookies.

Flagg: 34% of his 2s are assisted on, 76% of his 3s

Kon: 68% of 2s, 92% of 3s
VJ: 51% of 2s, 96% of 3s
Coward: 63% of 2s, 90% of 3s

Now to be fair, his assisted on 3s number would be higher if he wasn’t struggling so much with his 3pt shot. So there is that to consider with that number.

But this fits the eye test. Coop on offense basically has 2 roles. Stand in the corner and get iced out while getting like 1 catch and shoot look a quarter. Or here is the ball, figure something out.

Now to be fair, I don’t think this is the worse thing for him long term (the standing in the corner part is no good). The guy is learning early, what works and what doesn’t work for him in the half court. But ya, he gets very little help from his team in the half court. Because again, if you look at that roster, there isn’t a single guy that you would look at and view as a plus facilitator.

[Hook_Em]

If Flagg was a Fr in college right now (as he should be given his age) he’d be averaging like 28/15/7. Way better than Cam Boozer for instance.

[Stan]

I'm waiting more than a month's sample size as a rookie to reserve judgement. The rush people have to make judgement on someone or something is ridiculous. The kid is 18 years old, most kids are still in high school at that age.

[bonita_the_frog]

I'm waiting more than a month's sample size as a rookie to reserve judgement. The rush people have to make judgement on someone or something is ridiculous. The kid is 18 years old, most kids are still in high school at that age.

I agree that's why Cooper's stats are improving every week, his scoring keeps going up so consistently that he literally could be averaging 25ppg in the final month of the regular season... i mean not overall 25ppg, but during the final month he could be averaging that, and overall for the season he'll average 20ppg i predict. Also i think Coop will be wildly marketable and become the face of the NBA and the biggest heart-throb in America.

[tsherkin]

I believe some people don't think he's as quick as he is because of how long his stride is. Guys with shorter legs look quicker, even if they're not actually covering as much ground in a given period of time. A quick first step + a long stride is a lethal combo; really hard to stay in front of someone like that. Harden and Dantley are great examples for smaller guys. Bosh and D-Rob for bigs?

It's possible. But his spin is fast and he gets to his downhill movement very quickly. Like, he isn't ponderous at all attacking closeouts, and that's a big deal. And as you say, if he can get that first step quick and then use that stride length as he does, he'll be a problem once he gets a little more comfortable with a few other things. He is also finishing EXTREMELY well at the basket, and pretty well inside 10 feet overall. Once he figures out how to get all the way a little more regularly, he will be a nightmare, particularly as his shot firms up.

Dantley would be an amazing guy to study. He was really good at quick face-ups and off-ball jockeying for position for the quick move on the catch. Later, he got slow with his jab steps and ponderous isos and stuff, but when he wanted to, he was just so dangerous in other ways that it was very, very difficult to guard him.

Bosh... is not a great model. He had a great first step and a long stride, but he was a lot easier to bump and move because of his high center of gravity, and he had less of a pull-up game. More long twos. Although I guess the root concept of how he attacked is the same, so that does make sense. D-Rob is another one, though he did less well against physicality and was far better attacking in transition and with size mismatches.

EDIT: But again to your point, also long with a quick first step, certainly.