2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[bbms]

OKC is Westbrook-less with the West at a historical superiority over the East, and yet, Heat didn't and probably won't catch up to OKC's record, and Durant is clearly outproducing LeBron at volume and efficiency. LeBron doesn't have the minimal case to rival Durant at this point.

Paul George has a better case, but he isn't near to Durant's league as a performer, and have a healthy and better team around him.

At this point there is no contest: Durant is miles ahead any MVP contender now.

[dice]

Well they were a .500 team at best when he was playing at a similar level the last couple of seasons.

If Portland's massive improvement was just due to Aldridge you might have a point, but it's just as much Lillard, Batum, Matthews etc, and their incredible shooting. He'll finish top five simply due to being the best player on one of the best teams, but let's not pretend Portland's improvement is down to him making some big performance leap.

exactly. he was on about the same level as a player 2 years ago. his supporting cast has grown by leaps and bounds this year

aldridge is rebounding at a high level for the first time this year, but he really doesn't do anything else particularly well aside from take a lot of shots. the mvp talk is just stupid

Lillard, Batum, Matthews, Lopez wouldn't be anywhere without Aldridge. Taking him out of that team leaves a gaping hole that can't be filled by anyone else on that team.

there's a guy on most teams you could say that about

if you're saying that the big improvement of those guys is due to something aldridge is doing differently this season, i'm calling BS

[dice]

Unless LeBron goes sadistic after the All-Star break,the NBA will have a new MVP.

Too much coasting.

lebron is having one of the best offensive seasons in league history. i'd hardly call that coasting

durant had just about as good a case last year. the only difference here is team records, folks

ray allen and battier are way off of last year's sharpshooting pace. mike miller is gone. haslem has been injured and useless. that's a lot to make up for

[RSCD3_]

Also lebron cant defend 5 positions at the same time. The defense of the weak has been consistently bad

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[PaulieWal]

Also lebron cant defend 5 positions at the same time. The defense of the weak has been consistently bad

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The entire Miami Heat defense has sucked. The reason is partly coasting and partly because the starting lineup has been consistently inconsistent. On top of that, Spo's rotations are not consistent either. Lewis, Beasley, and Haslem have all found themselves in and out of the lineup. Birdman and Battier have been injured.

This is one of the flaws of smallball. It requires too much energy and commitment from the players to make up for a lack of size with constant speed and pressure.

Anyway this is a MVP thread, I won't derail it too much with Miami's defensive woes.

As of right now KD is the clear-cut favorite for the MVP and LeBron is falling behind.

[QPR]

This 5 game West trip could put George back in the convo, he averages nearly 29 ppg against the West and scored 31.3 ppg on 55/62/95 last week. If he comes home with 4 or 5 more western wins and a ppg total of back around 24 he'll be closer to where he needs to be to use the best player on best team narrative to his advantage.

I just can't fathom any possible way George wins it over Durant this year unless OKC absolutely nosedives in the standings, KD is outdoing LeBron's typical brilliance, imo it would be a mockery of the award to give it to George over him, who while an outstanding player in his own right, definitely benefits more from his team than KD does from his.

George still has those nights where he doesn't even hit double figures scoring and the Pacers will cruise to a win, that doesn't happen for KD.

So long as OKC win their 55-60 games, the Westbrook injury will only play to the KD narrative. Not to mention if it goes to someone other than LeBron, it's certainly not going to be someone other than KD who has finished runner-up three times and is enjoying his best year statistically.

Indiana will get their dues with DPOY and COY, and possibly even Most Improved (Stephenson).

[MisterHibachi]

Remember this?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/398325259952062464[/tweet]

[PaulieWal]

Remember this?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/398325259952062464[/tweet]

That's fine but reality is that KD is the favorite followed by a trailing LeBron followed by a very distant PG. There is just no scenario where PG wins it. KD is in line, has paid his dues, and is putting up LeBron like stats.

[MisterHibachi]

Remember this?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/398325259952062464[/tweet]

That's fine but reality is that KD is the favorite followed by a trailing LeBron followed by a very distant PG. There is just no scenario where PG wins it. KD is in line, has paid his dues, and is putting up LeBron like stats.

Oh yeah I agree. I think KD is running with it and it's probably his year. But I just thought it was funny how Hibbert was crowning PG 2 weeks into the season.

[PaulieWal]

Remember this?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/398325259952062464[/tweet]

That's fine but reality is that KD is the favorite followed by a trailing LeBron followed by a very distant PG. There is just no scenario where PG wins it. KD is in line, has paid his dues, and is putting up LeBron like stats.

Oh yeah I agree. I think KD is running with it and it's probably his year. But I just thought it was funny how Hibbert was crowning PG 2 weeks into the season.

Agreed. The Pacers have made very entertaining statements throughout the season but for some reason they never get picked up by the media. If KD (OKC) or LeBron (Miami) made those statements everyone would have been talking about it.

[MisterHibachi]

That's fine but reality is that KD is the favorite followed by a trailing LeBron followed by a very distant PG. There is just no scenario where PG wins it. KD is in line, has paid his dues, and is putting up LeBron like stats.

Oh yeah I agree. I think KD is running with it and it's probably his year. But I just thought it was funny how Hibbert was crowning PG 2 weeks into the season.

Agreed. The Pacers have made very entertaining statements throughout the season but for some reason they never got picked up by the media. If KD (OKC) or LeBron (Miami) made those statements everyone would have been talking about it.

Yup. Hibbert's DPoY tweet, the PG comment about HCA vs Miami. They talk the talk, that's for sure.

[PaulieWal]

Oh yeah I agree. I think KD is running with it and it's probably his year. But I just thought it was funny how Hibbert was crowning PG 2 weeks into the season.

Agreed. The Pacers have made very entertaining statements throughout the season but for some reason they never got picked up by the media. If KD (OKC) or LeBron (Miami) made those statements everyone would have been talking about it.

Yup. Hibbert's DPoY tweet, the PG comment about HCA vs Miami. They talk the talk, that's for sure.

Don't forget Hibbert telling Aldridge that he will see him in the Finals .

[NaturalThunder]

Unless LeBron goes sadistic after the All-Star break,the NBA will have a new MVP.

Too much coasting.

lebron is having one of the best offensive seasons in league history. i'd hardly call that coasting

durant had just about as good a case last year. the only difference here is team records, folks

ray allen and battier are way off of last year's sharpshooting pace. mike miller is gone. haslem has been injured and useless. that's a lot to make up for

And Durant hasn't had Westbrook for 15 games now (and counting) and breaking in 4-5 young players in new roles: Jackson (full blown fulltime rotation player/6th man in 3rd season), Lamb (essentially his rookie season and first time getting big minutes), Perry Jones (again, essentially his rookie season and now a semi-regular rotation player) Adams (rookie), and to a lesser extent Roberson (rookie); and, as expected with young players, there's been some pretty big ups-and-downs. He's also had to deal with the major regression of Thabo and having to deal with Thabo's and Perkins' embarrassingly bad offensive suckitude on a nightly basis.

[Wall34]

Westbrook has missed 16 games i think. OKC are 10-6 without him this year i believe.

[Patterned919]

exactly. he was on about the same level as a player 2 years ago. his supporting cast has grown by leaps and bounds this year

aldridge is rebounding at a high level for the first time this year, but he really doesn't do anything else particularly well aside from take a lot of shots. the mvp talk is just stupid

Lillard, Batum, Matthews, Lopez wouldn't be anywhere without Aldridge. Taking him out of that team leaves a gaping hole that can't be filled by anyone else on that team.

there's a guy on most teams you could say that about

if you're saying that the big improvement of those guys is due to something aldridge is doing differently this season, i'm calling BS

and how many of those guys are on one of the best teams in the league and putting up the numbers Aldridge is putting up?

[QPR]

But Aldridge isn't putting up better numbers than Durant and LeBron, and George's are comparable on a team with a better record. So why would Aldridge be a legitimate candidate right now?

To me Portland are an example of 3-4 guys all improving significantly at the same time. Aldridge is playing at a similar level to the past 2-3 seasons and is now benefiting from a better supporting cast. He might be the most important player on the team but that doesn't suddenly elevate him to MVP candidacy.

Realistically, the only way Aldridge wins is by default (ie - OKC falter and Portland win the division by 7-8 games, Indiana/George have a massive slide and Miami end up winning no more than 45-50). It's not going to happen.

[Apollo64]

It's still a race since we are only midway into the season. That's the point of this thread, see how the rankings change.

[bbms]

Unless LeBron goes sadistic after the All-Star break,the NBA will have a new MVP.

Too much coasting.

lebron is having one of the best offensive seasons in league history. i'd hardly call that coasting

durant had just about as good a case last year. the only difference here is team records, folks

ray allen and battier are way off of last year's sharpshooting pace. mike miller is gone. haslem has been injured and useless. that's a lot to make up for

No he isn't. He was a better offensive player last season. Shooting doesn't tell the history. Factor in turnover rate, and LeBron looks worse. Now he is at 122 ORTG. Last season he was at 125. Durant is at 124 now. His AST% is at the lowest point since 2008. His TS% is also dropping. 70% in November, 65.4% in December and 63.5% in January.

In January only, he is at 31.2 USG%, 40 mpg, 28.1 ppg, 6 rpg, 6.3 apg and 3.7 topg (on 63.5 TS% and 119 ORTG). For instance, Durant in January: 35.5 USG%, 37.7 mpg, 36.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.1 apg and 3.1 topg (on 65.0 TS% and 130 ORTG).

Durant is much better now, without his sidekick, and a bottom 7 3pt shooting team (34.3%). LeBron's with Wade for 7 games in January at 34 mpg, and Heat is a top 7 3pt shooting team (37.6%). And playing in the West.

LeBron shouldn't be a dick. He shouldn't tell he's jealous of Durant's shot and how he would put up Wilt stats if he had Durant's shots. Durant is way more efficient at the moment.

What Durant's doing to keep OKC in the game on the absence of Westbrook is not human.

[dice]

Unless LeBron goes sadistic after the All-Star break,the NBA will have a new MVP.

Too much coasting.

lebron is having one of the best offensive seasons in league history. i'd hardly call that coasting

durant had just about as good a case last year. the only difference here is team records, folks

ray allen and battier are way off of last year's sharpshooting pace. mike miller is gone. haslem has been injured and useless. that's a lot to make up for

No he isn't. He was a better offensive player last season. Shooting doesn't tell the history. Factor in turnover rate, and LeBron looks worse. Now he is at 122 ORTG. Last season he was at 125. Durant is at 124 now. His AST% is at the lowest point since 2008. His TS% is also dropping. 70% in November, 65.4% in December and 63.5% in January.

In January only, he is at 31.2 USG%, 40 mpg, 28.1 ppg, 6 rpg, 6.3 apg and 3.7 topg (on 63.5 TS% and 119 ORTG). For instance, Durant in January: 35.5 USG%, 37.7 mpg, 36.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.1 apg and 3.1 topg (on 65.0 TS% and 130 ORTG).

Durant is much better now, without his sidekick, and a bottom 7 3pt shooting team (34.3%). LeBron's with Wade for 7 games in January at 34 mpg, and Heat is a top 7 3pt shooting team (37.6%). And playing in the West.

LeBron shouldn't be a dick. He shouldn't tell he's jealous of Durant's shot and how he would put up Wilt stats if he had Durant's shots. Durant is way more efficient at the moment.

What Durant's doing to keep OKC in the game on the absence of Westbrook is not human.

i wasn't aware that we were only comparing the month of january. obviously durant has been better this month. that's not debatable

i'm not sure how applicable ORTG is to individuals, btw. it is designed as a team stat, if i'm not mistaken

i was pointing out that lebron is not "coasting", anyway. i was not comparing him to durant other than to say that durant had a good case last year as well

[theokie]

lebron is having one of the best offensive seasons in league history. i'd hardly call that coasting

durant had just about as good a case last year. the only difference here is team records, folks

ray allen and battier are way off of last year's sharpshooting pace. mike miller is gone. haslem has been injured and useless. that's a lot to make up for

No he isn't. He was a better offensive player last season. Shooting doesn't tell the history. Factor in turnover rate, and LeBron looks worse. Now he is at 122 ORTG. Last season he was at 125. Durant is at 124 now. His AST% is at the lowest point since 2008. His TS% is also dropping. 70% in November, 65.4% in December and 63.5% in January.

In January only, he is at 31.2 USG%, 40 mpg, 28.1 ppg, 6 rpg, 6.3 apg and 3.7 topg (on 63.5 TS% and 119 ORTG). For instance, Durant in January: 35.5 USG%, 37.7 mpg, 36.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.1 apg and 3.1 topg (on 65.0 TS% and 130 ORTG).

Durant is much better now, without his sidekick, and a bottom 7 3pt shooting team (34.3%). LeBron's with Wade for 7 games in January at 34 mpg, and Heat is a top 7 3pt shooting team (37.6%). And playing in the West.

LeBron shouldn't be a dick. He shouldn't tell he's jealous of Durant's shot and how he would put up Wilt stats if he had Durant's shots. Durant is way more efficient at the moment.

What Durant's doing to keep OKC in the game on the absence of Westbrook is not human.

i wasn't aware that we were only comparing the month of january. obviously durant has been better this month. that's not debatable

i'm not sure how applicable ORTG is to individuals, btw. it is designed as a team stat, if i'm not mistaken

i was pointing out that lebron is not "coasting", anyway. i was not comparing him to durant other than to say that durant had a good case last year as well

Theres an ORTG for individuals and an ORTG for teams. Different stat, using different numbers and formulas to come up with the rating.