China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#281 » by spikeslovechild » Mon Oct 7, 2019 11:57 pm

sikma42 wrote:Silvers response is actually very American. If you are one of the faces of an organzation, taking a stance directly against a HUGE business partner is going to cause thisnto happen. Its about $$$ and thats very Amaerican.
jbk1234 wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
Silver got dragged into it by Morey if he wasn't willing to deal with the pressure the smart thing would have been to check with his owner and Silver to say I am thinking of sending out this tweet will you back me up on this.

Instead he haphazardly spoke on an issue and then as soon as things got hot folded like a cheap ten dollar suit.


The idea that U.S. citizens need to check with the boss before they make a relatively mild statement supporting democracy and the basic liberties that we enjoy, is antithetical to what the NBA should be about. Full stop. Silver made the decision to respond the way he did. It was his choice. He's responsible for it.


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Pretty much.

Everyone knows what China is and what is necessary to do business there which is to stay out of their internal politics Morey is not some rube he's the leader of a billion dollar franchise. He knew what the reaction would be when he said it and still folded.

If he wasn't willing to deal with the heat his comments brought and been willing to continue to speak out to bring attention to the issue he should have stayed out of it altogether because all he's done is create a huge mess for the NBA and Silver to clean up
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#282 » by samir7maher » Mon Oct 7, 2019 11:57 pm

sikma42 wrote:Free speech deals with government interferance. You would be protected by other legislation in that instance...

do i understand you correctly when you say companies can limit your speech in your free time???

samir7maher wrote:
13th Man wrote:
Again, it comes down to business. You hurt your partner's reputation, there may be consequences. I don't know the legal implications of what they're doing but asked me if they do something like this and so far it appears to me that they can.



so your saying freedom of speech for employees doesnt excist if it hurts the business of the employer??

so if i company x decide that for example gay rights are off limit. does that mean that all my employees cant say anything about it


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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#283 » by 13th Man » Mon Oct 7, 2019 11:58 pm

samir7maher wrote:
13th Man wrote:
samir7maher wrote:
when has china ( or any other nation ) has become the employer of all people working for the nba or the teams??


Again, it comes down to business. You hurt your partner's reputation, there may be consequences. I don't know the legal implications of what they're doing but asked me if they do something like this and so far it appears to me that they can.



so your saying freedom of speech for employees doesnt excist if it hurts the business of the employer??

so if i company x decide that for example gay rights are off limit. does that mean that all my employees cant say anything about it


If you don't abide by company policies (usually reasonable but whatever they may be), yes there could be repercussions. When you work for a private company you're not free to do/say whatever you want without repercussion.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#284 » by Buckeye-NBAFan » Mon Oct 7, 2019 11:58 pm

sikma42 wrote:Dangerous game to play. What do you think happens if the dollar is no longer the global currency?
Buckeye-NBAFan wrote:
CarMalone wrote:I think the major issue that Americans are missing is that questions about Chinese sovereignty by an outsider are a very sensitive topic. This was not just a tweet about human rights or trade practices, it was about the territorial integrity of a Chinese region. This sentiment is not just a government sentiment, it is one shared by a billion Chinese citizens including millions living overseas. China suffered a century of ruthless and humiliating aggression from the Western powers who sought to divide China. Westerners saw a divided China as a weak China that could be colonized by imperialism. There's a famous Henri Meyer cartoon that few Americans will recognize, but almost every Chinese will. Heck, mainland China was not even recognized by the UN until 1971.

Chinese people understand that there are serious internal problems within the country and many of these are openly debated, but issues regarding Chinese sovereignty are a different matter and elicit a much different reaction. They invoke terrible memories that persist to this day. The message to the NBA was clear, you can criticize Chinese sovereignty all you want, but don't expect them to buy billions of dollars of your product.


China suffered terrible tragedies from foreign occupiers through WWII. Then the current Chinese government murdered tens of millions of Chinese citizens in the years after WWII.

But I do agree it's the US government that needs to be more forceful in standing up for US interests. China can't ban US companies from doing business there for supporting no taxation without representation, then expect to be able to access the US market, the dollar denominated world wide trading system, or US technology.


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That's an illogical response. The US isn't the aggressor.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#285 » by sikma42 » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:03 am

Free speech deals with government interference. When dealing with your employer, that would fall under Employment Law.


samir7maher wrote:
sikma42 wrote:Free speech deals with government interferance. You would be protected by other legislation in that instance...

do i understand you correctly when you say companies can limit your speech in your free time???

samir7maher wrote:

so your saying freedom of speech for employees doesnt excist if it hurts the business of the employer??

so if i company x decide that for example gay rights are off limit. does that mean that all my employees cant say anything about it


Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app


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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#286 » by Benedict_Boozer » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:03 am

13th Man wrote:
Hindenburg wrote:So Silver said he's backing Morey? Hard to read his response. He's basically tip toing on both sides, not giving a clear answer.


The NBA is basically trying to stay out of it. Saying that they support Morey's right to free speech but makes it clear that his opinions are his and his own, not representative of the NBA.

My opinion? I don't see anything wrong with this as I don't believe that Morey is speaking on behalf of the NBA either.

Now, if China is going to over-react, play hardball and start revoking access and cutting ties to the league, the NBA should definitely react accordingly. They can say screw you guys, if you're going to act irrationally over one comment that's not even representative of the league then go F yourself. I'm hoping that they will have the guts to do this but I don't see this happening, the almighty dollar is too strong.


Man I’m glad someone else saw that BS quote for what it was. Silver said nothing with that quote, as you say he was trying to placate both sides and get the NBA out of the fray.

Just too much money at stake, billions - sad but true.


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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#287 » by NeutralObserver » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:04 am

Pharenheit wrote:These guys never learn. Keep politics and sports separate

Also way too complex of a rabbit hole for Morey to be digging into & trying to make waves in. Some of these guys just don't get it


Human rights violations aren't political....no matter how much you want them to be.

Society should question people who try to correlate the two. People who advocate to "keep politics" out of sports usually have no interest in democracy or freedom at all.

This would of course explain the inexplicable amount of Trump Supporters siding with China...because they support authoritarianism, as well.

Pro-CCP and Pro Trump Supporters share a lot of the same ideology...especially in the censorship department.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#288 » by samir7maher » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:05 am

13th Man wrote:
samir7maher wrote:
13th Man wrote:
Again, it comes down to business. You hurt your partner's reputation, there may be consequences. I don't know the legal implications of what they're doing but asked me if they do something like this and so far it appears to me that they can.



so your saying freedom of speech for employees doesnt excist if it hurts the business of the employer??

so if i company x decide that for example gay rights are off limit. does that mean that all my employees cant say anything about it


If you don't abide by company policies (usually reasonable but whatever they may be), yes there could be repercussions. When you work for a private company you're not free to do/say whatever you want without repercussion.



sorry as a dutchmen i find this totally nonsense in my free time i can say what i want a company cant fire me unless its criminal behaviour. i can even call them a **** company by tweet ( really happened in the netherlands) and the jugde will say its not enough 2 fire me because thats not enough ground
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#289 » by sikma42 » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:07 am

American employment is generally "at will." Besides a few reasons, your employer can fire you anything.
samir7maher wrote:
13th Man wrote:
samir7maher wrote:

so your saying freedom of speech for employees doesnt excist if it hurts the business of the employer??

so if i company x decide that for example gay rights are off limit. does that mean that all my employees cant say anything about it


If you don't abide by company policies (usually reasonable but whatever they may be), yes there could be repercussions. When you work for a private company you're not free to do/say whatever you want without repercussion.



sorry as a dutchmen i find this totally nonsense in my free time i can say what i want a company cant fire me unless its criminal behaviour. i can even call them a **** company by tweet ( really happened in the netherlands) and the jugde will say its not enough 2 fire me because thats not enough ground


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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#290 » by samir7maher » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:08 am

sikma42 wrote:American employment is generally "at will." Besides a few reasons, your employer can fire you anything.
samir7maher wrote:
13th Man wrote:
If you don't abide by company policies (usually reasonable but whatever they may be), yes there could be repercussions. When you work for a private company you're not free to do/say whatever you want without repercussion.



sorry as a dutchmen i find this totally nonsense in my free time i can say what i want a company cant fire me unless its criminal behaviour. i can even call them a **** company by tweet ( really happened in the netherlands) and the jugde will say its not enough 2 fire me because thats not enough ground


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1 more reason i think the usa is a second world country trying 2 fool world in thinking its a first world country
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#291 » by Noctilux » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:08 am

The NBA, like all American corporations, worship at the altar of dollar bill.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#292 » by Nyphantom » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:08 am

wco81 wrote:
13th Man wrote:
wco81 wrote:

Nothing complicated. Chinese Communist Party is authoritarian and will run over civilian protesters with tanks.

They suppress that information so now a lot of Chinese lemmings have this mistaken sense of nationalistic pride so they support suppression of dissent in places like Tibet or the muslim minority and now HK as well.


You're seeing this from a western perspective. It's their country, who are you to tell them how it should be run?


No I’m looking at it from a human perspective.

Govts shouldn’t massacre political dissidents. NBA shouldn’t pander to authoritarians.

What are you going to say next, that the Chinese aren’t ready for Western style democracy?

:roll:


Are you aware of all the atrocities the US committed in South America alone? Propping up brutal dictators, being directly responsible for mass murder, genocide, and instability in over 12 LatAm countries, all in the name of "defending democracy and human rights" but really it was all about defending its political and corporate interests.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#293 » by samir7maher » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:10 am

Noctilux wrote:The NBA, like all American corporations, worship at the altar of dollar bill.



thats good but dont act all mighty about your morals the last years.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#294 » by inmate347 » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:11 am

[quote]Man I’m glad someone else saw that BS quote for what it was. Silver said nothing with that quote, as you say he was trying to placate both sides and get the NBA out of the fray.

Just too much money at stake, billions - sad but true. [/quote]

The problem comes with doing this selectively. They chose to wade into these waters in numerous other instances through direct action by the league or allowing action at work by the players. It's perfectly reasonable to call out both the hypocrisy and view the fart-sniffing nature of league/player involvement in other social issues with contempt considering their insistence on trying to placate both sides here for the sake of their pocket-book.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#295 » by Nate505 » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:14 am

Probably didn't want to see their crappy teams get worked
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#296 » by NeutralObserver » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:14 am

The NBA shouldn't stop here, in my opinion.

The fascistic Modi regime in India, Erdogan's authoritarianism in Turkey, no NBA games in Tel Aviv until they stop building settlements in the West Bank, and any business dealings in Saudi Arabia - cut all ties and become the only league to NOT accept financial contributions from Flagrant Human Rights abusers.

The league, nor the players, have the stones, unfortunately.

This is the problem with friendship under capitalism. The NBA, like America, is complicit in their business partner's crimes against humanity.

Whichever league that does the things mentioned above will attract MUCH more revenue than expected.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#297 » by Nate505 » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:15 am

Can they ban themswlves from voting from the all Star game too?
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#298 » by 13th Man » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:16 am

Benedict_Boozer wrote:
13th Man wrote:
Hindenburg wrote:So Silver said he's backing Morey? Hard to read his response. He's basically tip toing on both sides, not giving a clear answer.


The NBA is basically trying to stay out of it. Saying that they support Morey's right to free speech but makes it clear that his opinions are his and his own, not representative of the NBA.

My opinion? I don't see anything wrong with this as I don't believe that Morey is speaking on behalf of the NBA either.

Now, if China is going to over-react, play hardball and start revoking access and cutting ties to the league, the NBA should definitely react accordingly. They can say screw you guys, if you're going to act irrationally over one comment that's not even representative of the league then go F yourself. I'm hoping that they will have the guts to do this but I don't see this happening, the almighty dollar is too strong.


Man I’m glad someone else saw that BS quote for what it was. Silver said nothing with that quote, as you say he was trying to placate both sides and get the NBA out of the fray.

Just too much money at stake, billions - sad but true.


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Imo, I don't think its the NBA's place to fight this political battle and unrest that's happening in China. I don't even think it's the United State's responsibility either. Things rarely go well when one country tries to govern another country's actions on their own.....Iraq anyone?

This is why I didn't see anything wrong with Silver's response. I just find them a bit hypocritical in that they would engage in certain SJW issues but not this one, hence why I think the NBA should not get involved with ANY political issues or agendas at all. I definitely don't think that they should get involved with this one either.

Now if the Chinese Basketball Association has breached contracts with the NBA and have gone too far in that regard, then the NBA should say "Wait hold on a sec....why are you breaking contractual obligations for something that was expressed by "external entity" who we've established that does not represent nor reflect our opinions?".

This is my take on the situation in a nutshell.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#299 » by mtron929 » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:17 am

Many people are criticizing the NBA and some of the people associated with the NBA for being hypocrits. For the most part, I think most of us are hypocrits. It is just that we keep the hypocrisy hidden from others and don't have opportunity to showcase our hypocrisy to the rest of the world because we do not have that platform.
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Re: China Cancels G League Games 

Post#300 » by Mephariel » Tue Oct 8, 2019 12:20 am

13th Man wrote:
Mephariel wrote:
13th Man wrote:
Because where is it going to stop? You say that nobody should be bothered by players kneeling. Then they start to bash political figures that they don't like. Then they start talking about people sharing public restrooms. Then they talk about China. See my point? Where do you draw the line? Many of these are controversial topics backed by political agenda, just because you are ok with them doesn't mean that others aren't. And because there is no line, the NBA now look like hypocrites because they backed on SJW issue but not another. What happens is when you give people an inch, they eventually want to take a mile.

It's easy, just put policies in place, corporations do this all the time. Nobody is saying that they can't have an opinion or cannot speak their minds. How about doing it on your own time and not use your employer's time and platform for it? Why is that so hard to abide by?


How often do they do that? 90%+ of the time, you turned on the football game, you see people playing football. You turned on a basketball game, you see basketball. How often do you hear about those topics in the middle of the game? Almost never. If you hear about the political issues, it is because you want to read about it online. So I don't see how this affects the product. If you don't like the politics, don't click on twitter links or read articles. But the fact that you do should tell you why politics is a part of life and you can't just get rid of it. It is human nature to be curious about what others are saying and it is human nature to say it. You keep saying where it is going to stop as if players are not playing the game anymore. They are, but they are also public figures that will voice their opinions.

As for putting policies in place, unless they ban the use of Twitter, facebook, etc, how are they going to stop it? NBA players have multiple platforms they can use outside of work hours. And why stop it? Social commentary is part of the reason the players have followers and it increase popularity of the NBA's reach.


Again, If you've been following my argument, nowhere did I suggest that they stop using OTHER platforms to voice their concerns. The Morey case is different because the Chinese took great exception to it in any case, they consider his words a representation of the Houston Rockets and the NBA.

When I go watch a game or watch an ESPN broadcast, I don't want to hear peeps try to push their political agenda onto me. I watch sports as an escape from all of this. You're ok with it because those things align with your ideologies, what if they pushed a different agenda in which you don't agree with? It starts off with race, then transforms into LGTBQ rights, then onto bashing Trump, then onto who knows what else? We're already being pushed extreme biased views by 90% of the mainstream media, sports was an outlet in which I would be free of this. Also notice that all of the SJW issues pushed are left leaning, this is a fact I'm sure you cannot be that blind not to see this.

The movie industry has already been tainted, cable news outlets, the press, the comedy industry, and now sports entertainment. There is basically nothing left that is sacred in its purest form and you're ok with that? Look what happened to Dave Chappelle not too long ago, he got 17% on Rotten tomatoes while getting a 99% rating from the real public audience.

Can we not have just one source of entertainment to leave politics alone?


There are 1230 games played each year in the NBA. How many of those games do you see athletes pushing a political agenda? How many protests are there? You are acting like players are talking politics instead of playing the game. They ARE using other platforms to voice their concerns. So what is the problem? They are not talking about politics during the game.

And you are wrong about my reasoning for supporting the players. Colby Covington is an MMA fighter that is a right wing extremist. He called Brazilians filthy animals and wears MAGA hats. He visited the white house and stood with Trump and called out the Eagles for not wanting to visit. He has had said some of the most controversial things. And you know what? I criticize him, but I don't think he should shut up. He has his platform and he is free to use it.

This isn't about left wing vs right wing. This is about the simple notion that taking politics out of sports is not realistic. People are going to talk about their viewpoints. Part of LBJ's job is to visit places and talk to fans and sometimes he will speak up about social injustice (or what he perceived to be social injustice). Where do you draw the line what is politics?

Lastly, it is not so much that I am ok with it, I just don't think it is realistic to pretend politics isn't integrated into sports in some way, shape or form because sports is a part of society. The only source of entertainment that doesn't have politics is probably porn. And even that I am not certain.

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