Luka Doncic has officially entered the MVP race

[aminiaturebuddha]

Stanley Johnson and OG gave him fits last night. As well as the flash doubles.

Yeah, I wouldn't read too much into last night's game. OG is one of the best defenders in the league, and Stanley Johnson can do a reasonable facsimile on the defensive end, so that Doncic never had a break from having a strong, athletic wing as his primary defender. And then the Raptors' team defence (or, at least the last two years, although it's been rough so far this year) is usually designed to slow down the opposing team's star player, so it was never just OG or Stanley focussing on him.

All that to say, that was one of the toughest defensive matchups Doncic will see, and he was on the second night of a back-to-back. He wasn't "exposed" as some people are claiming. He still an amazing player.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

Stanley Johnson and OG gave him fits last night. As well as the flash doubles.

Yeah, I wouldn't read too much into last night's game. OG is one of the best defenders in the league, and Stanley Johnson can do a reasonable facsimile on the defensive end, so that Doncic never had a break from having a strong, athletic wing as his primary defender. And then the Raptors' team defence (or, at least the last two years, although it's been rough so far this year) is usually designed to slow down the opposing team's star player, so it was never just OG or Stanley focussing on him.

All that to say, that was one of the toughest defensive matchups Doncic will see, and he was on the second night of a back-to-back. He wasn't "exposed" as some people are claiming. He still an amazing player.

To add, on the 2nd night of a B2B missing four rotation and 2 starters. And having just put in a Herculean effort the night before. Hard to put any stock in that performance. All that said, funny thing is, while it was a bad game, he still put up 15/7/9! I mean...that's a bad game for Luka. When guys like Steph or Trae have a bad game, they're 2-16 with 11 points. Luka brings so much to the table that even his bad games, he almost gets a triple-double.

[Duffman100]

Stanley Johnson and OG gave him fits last night. As well as the flash doubles.

Yeah, I wouldn't read too much into last night's game. OG is one of the best defenders in the league, and Stanley Johnson can do a reasonable facsimile on the defensive end, so that Doncic never had a break from having a strong, athletic wing as his primary defender. And then the Raptors' team defence (or, at least the last two years, although it's been rough so far this year) is usually designed to slow down the opposing team's star player, so it was never just OG or Stanley focussing on him.

All that to say, that was one of the toughest defensive matchups Doncic will see, and he was on the second night of a back-to-back. He wasn't "exposed" as some people are claiming. He still an amazing player.

oh yeah not saying he was exposed. Just pointing out it was a tough game because those are two of the better wing defenders in the league. Both of them are strong as oxen, long and have great instincts.

[pr0wler]

I thought Luka was better than Harden though, according to RealGM poll...?

I'm confused. So...you're wow'd by Harden 34/6/12, but not by Luka averaging better than that with better defense over a 6 game stretch? Luka is better than Harden.

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

[Some smartguy]

I thought Luka was better than Harden though, according to RealGM poll...?

I'm confused. So...you're wow'd by Harden 34/6/12, but not by Luka averaging better than that with better defense over a 6 game stretch? Luka is better than Harden.

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I'm confused. So...you're wow'd by Harden 34/6/12, but not by Luka averaging better than that with better defense over a 6 game stretch? Luka is better than Harden.

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

[Some smartguy]

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

I only used that because he was basing it off of the 1 game in Brooklyn. If you want to use the Brooklyn 2 games advanced stats, feel free. They are worse than when he was on the Rockets. Harden is barely shooting better from 3 than Luka right now, and Luka is very clearly in a slump.

[pr0wler]

I'm confused. So...you're wow'd by Harden 34/6/12, but not by Luka averaging better than that with better defense over a 6 game stretch? Luka is better than Harden.

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

When did I use Harden's 2 game sample with the Nets as the main piece of evidence? I simply implied that overall Harden is better, and that Luka has a league average TS% this season. Nice straw man.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

Now you're just blatantly trolling. There is ZERO metric that has Harden as a better defender.

104 DRtg, 1.9 DBPM to 111 DRtg, -.8 DBPM.

[Some smartguy]

I'm not exactly wow'd by Luka's league average TS% and sub .300 3-PT shooting this season.

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

When did I use Harden's 2 game sample with the Nets as the main piece of evidence? I simply implied that overall Harden is better, and that Luka has a league average TS% this season. Nice straw man.

Oops, I was just pasting from one of my previous comments that had the exact same evidence. Is there a single metric, THIS SEASON, that shows that Harden is better than Luka? Harden is shooting near the same percentage from 3 this year.

[Hello Brooklyn]

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

Now you're just blatantly trolling. There is ZERO metric that has Harden as a better defender.

104 DRtg, 1.9 DBPM to 111 DRtg, -.8 DBPM.

Again basing this off a season where Harden was purposely trying to force his way out of Houston?

Not to mention that defensive stats are useless and prove nothing.

Were you asleep during the playoffs last year when the Clippers purposely targeted Luka all series?

Anything besides stanning for Luka to you is trolling.

[Hello Brooklyn]

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

When did I use Harden's 2 game sample with the Nets as the main piece of evidence? I simply implied that overall Harden is better, and that Luka has a league average TS% this season. Nice straw man.

Oops, I was just pasting from one of my previous comments that had the exact same evidence. Is there a single metric, THIS SEASON, that shows that Harden is better than Luka? Harden is shooting near the same percentage from 3 this year.

Do you actually think that that a 15 game sample size of Harden shooting poorly is evidence of anything? Especially when we know he was actively trying to get traded.

Everyone who knows anything about basketball knows Harden is a good 3 point shooter for his career and Luka is a bad one.

[Some smartguy]

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

Now you're just blatantly trolling. There is ZERO metric that has Harden as a better defender.

104 DRtg, 1.9 DBPM to 111 DRtg, -.8 DBPM.

Again basing this off a season where Harden was purposely trying to force his way out of Houston?

Not to mention that defensive stats are useless and prove nothing.

Were you asleep during the playoffs last year when the Clippers purposely targeted Luka all series?

Anything besides stanning for Luka to you is trolling.

LMAO. So, defence proves nothing? Then Rudy Gobert is a bum and Kawhi is an average player. Were you asleep when Luka had 43/17/13 against the Clippers who were, as you put it, "purposely targeting him." Look at last year's stats too, not a single one showing Harden as a better defender than 21-year-old Luka this year.

[Some smartguy]

When did I use Harden's 2 game sample with the Nets as the main piece of evidence? I simply implied that overall Harden is better, and that Luka has a league average TS% this season. Nice straw man.

Oops, I was just pasting from one of my previous comments that had the exact same evidence. Is there a single metric, THIS SEASON, that shows that Harden is better than Luka? Harden is shooting near the same percentage from 3 this year.

Do you actually think that that a 15 game sample size of Harden shooting poorly is evidence of anything? Especially when we know he was actively trying to get traded.

Everyone who knows anything about basketball knows Harden is a good 3 point shooter for his career and Luka is a bad one.

Yes, Harden has been a better shooter than Luka for his career. But then again, Luka has been playing for less than 2-and-a-quarter years. When James was 21, he shot .349%. Luka will most likely reach that mark or be very close to it by the end of the year. Great job saying that everyone knows a 21-year-old at the start of his career is a bad shooter.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Stanley Johnson and OG gave him fits last night. As well as the flash doubles.

Yeah, I wouldn't read too much into last night's game. OG is one of the best defenders in the league, and Stanley Johnson can do a reasonable facsimile on the defensive end, so that Doncic never had a break from having a strong, athletic wing as his primary defender. And then the Raptors' team defence (or, at least the last two years, although it's been rough so far this year) is usually designed to slow down the opposing team's star player, so it was never just OG or Stanley focussing on him.

All that to say, that was one of the toughest defensive matchups Doncic will see, and he was on the second night of a back-to-back. He wasn't "exposed" as some people are claiming. He still an amazing player.

oh yeah not saying he was exposed. Just pointing out it was a tough game because those are two of the better wing defenders in the league. Both of them are strong as oxen, long and have great instincts.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that you said he was exposed. I saw other people saying that. I was just responding to your post because you (rightly) focussed on the defence of OG and Stanley Johnson.

[pr0wler]

If you're going to use Harden's numbers from his 2 games with the Nets, I'll use this incredibly small sample size of the 2020-21 season so far:
Luka

2020-21 BPM 8.3 VORP 1.1 OBPM 6.4 DBPM 1.9 PER 26.5

Harden


2020-21 BPM 4.6 VORP 0.4 OBPM 5.0 DBPM -0.8 PER 23.8

Harden gets more fouls called and shoots slightly better from 3. Other than that, Luka is better all-around.

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

I only used that because he was basing it off of the 1 game in Brooklyn. If you want to use the Brooklyn 2 games advanced stats, feel free. They are worse than when he was on the Rockets. Harden is barely shooting better from 3 than Luka right now, and Luka is very clearly in a slump.

Harden is shooting only 0.337 so far this season, whereas Luka is shooting 0.287. In what world is that "barely better" lmfao.

This is clearly a troll account. Have a good one.

[Some smartguy]

Taking Harden's 20-21 numbers is pretty stupid when he obviously was dogging it to get traded.

If you look at Harden's numbers from last year there is no comparison.

Luka is a bad 3 point shooter, and Harden is one of the leagues best. Hes also a better defender.

I only used that because he was basing it off of the 1 game in Brooklyn. If you want to use the Brooklyn 2 games advanced stats, feel free. They are worse than when he was on the Rockets. Harden is barely shooting better from 3 than Luka right now, and Luka is very clearly in a slump.

Harden is shooting only 0.337 so far this season, whereas Luka is shooting 0.287. In what world is that "barely better" lmfao.

This is clearly a troll account. Have a good one.

He has made 6 more 3s than Luka on 5 more shots. Seems pretty small to me.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Now you're just blatantly trolling. There is ZERO metric that has Harden as a better defender.

104 DRtg, 1.9 DBPM to 111 DRtg, -.8 DBPM.

Again basing this off a season where Harden was purposely trying to force his way out of Houston?

Not to mention that defensive stats are useless and prove nothing.

Were you asleep during the playoffs last year when the Clippers purposely targeted Luka all series?

Anything besides stanning for Luka to you is trolling.

LMAO. So, defence proves nothing? Then Rudy Gobert is a bum and Kawhi is an average player. Were you asleep when Luka had 43/17/13 against the Clippers who were, as you put it, "purposely targeting him." Look at last year's stats too, not a single one showing Harden as a better defender than 21-year-old Luka this year.

Nice strawman.

I didn't say defense proves nothing. I said "defensive stats" like D Rating are useless.

What does offense have to do with being targeted on defense. By that logic, Trae Young must be a DPOY.

Luka is not a good defensive player. Stop being such a homer and try looking at things objectively.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Oops, I was just pasting from one of my previous comments that had the exact same evidence. Is there a single metric, THIS SEASON, that shows that Harden is better than Luka? Harden is shooting near the same percentage from 3 this year.

Do you actually think that that a 15 game sample size of Harden shooting poorly is evidence of anything? Especially when we know he was actively trying to get traded.

Everyone who knows anything about basketball knows Harden is a good 3 point shooter for his career and Luka is a bad one.

Yes, Harden has been a better shooter than Luka for his career. But then again, Luka has been playing for less than 2-and-a-quarter years. When James was 21, he shot .349%. Luka will most likely reach that mark or be very close to it by the end of the year. Great job saying that everyone knows a 21-year-old at the start of his career is a bad shooter.

What does age have to do with anything?

Were not grading on a curve. Maybe someday Luka will be a good shooter.

Right now he certainly is not.

[Some smartguy]

Again basing this off a season where Harden was purposely trying to force his way out of Houston?

Not to mention that defensive stats are useless and prove nothing.

Were you asleep during the playoffs last year when the Clippers purposely targeted Luka all series?

Anything besides stanning for Luka to you is trolling.

LMAO. So, defence proves nothing? Then Rudy Gobert is a bum and Kawhi is an average player. Were you asleep when Luka had 43/17/13 against the Clippers who were, as you put it, "purposely targeting him." Look at last year's stats too, not a single one showing Harden as a better defender than 21-year-old Luka this year.

Nice strawman.

I didn't say defense proves nothing. I said "defensive stats" like D Rating are useless.

What does offense have to do with being targeted on defense. By that logic, Trae Young must be a DPOY.

Luka is not a good defensive player. Stop being such a homer and try looking at things objectively.

I'm really not. Look at legitimately any defensive metric or stat and Luka this year is better than Harden at any time. I didn't say Luka was a good defender, I just said that he is a better defender than Harden. I have no clue why you would think that defensive stats are useless, they are what measure an individual player's impact on defense.