2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 5)

[basketballRob]

Cade’s shot selection is not where it should be yet. He’s a dude that’s used to getting any shot he wants. And he mostly still can, but they’re more heavily contested now. He’ll learn.

Serious question, tho:

Does anyone legit think he WON’T average at least 20/6/6 next year on at least league average efficiency? You can see him improving every month, and it’s not like he’s relying on one or two moves to drive his game. Kid’s a star.

He's doing this with no big man whatsoever to play off of. I like Stewart and all but he's a mini big man with average athleticism.
Get him a real big man with length and athleticism and those numbers will significantly improve as should his efficiency because he'll get more open looks.

Why doesn't Olynyk play? I do think Cade needs help but I don't think it's on the center. They need a power forward. Luckily this draft has Chet, Banchero, and Smith. Chet probably ends up with his buddy in Orlando tho.

[orlando_joe]

franz 18 pts on 9 of 15 and winning bucket with min to go..95 pts in 5 game homestand team won 3rd time in 4 games

[basketballRob]

Suggs the top rookie defender now and 12th in the league in Defensive Raptor for players that played over 830 minutes.

A lot has been made about Cade not having good teammates but try to be a good defender on the worst team record-wise in the league.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

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[Moses ShamMoses]

I was impressed with Suggs and Wagner the other night versus the Pistons. Suggs is a hound and Wagner is so skilled for a big. They had a great draft too!

[JLiv]

Cade’s shot selection is not where it should be yet. He’s a dude that’s used to getting any shot he wants. And he mostly still can, but they’re more heavily contested now. He’ll learn.

Serious question, tho:

Does anyone legit think he WON’T average at least 20/6/6 next year on at least league average efficiency? You can see him improving every month, and it’s not like he’s relying on one or two moves to drive his game. Kid’s a star.

He's doing this with no big man whatsoever to play off of. I like Stewart and all but he's a mini big man with average athleticism.
Get him a real big man with length and athleticism and those numbers will significantly improve as should his efficiency because he'll get more open looks.

Why doesn't Olynyk play? I do think Cade needs help but I don't think it's on the center. They need a power forward. Luckily this draft has Chet, Banchero, and Smith. Chet probably ends up with his buddy in Orlando tho.

When healthy, Olynyk’s one of our best players. He had a knee injury and is just now returning

[zaymon]

I was impressed with Suggs and Wagner the other night versus the Pistons. Suggs is a hound and Wagner is so skilled for a big. They had a great draft too!

You cant tell how much impact Suggs is having until you see the whole game. Numbers and highlights dont do him justice. I dont think he will ever be number one option, propably not even number 2 but he is a winning player. Clutch time against Luka Doncic and we put the ball into rookie Wagner hands while rookie Suggs leads our defense. Unbelieveble.

[Madhouse]

Suggs is a menace on defense. When he learns how to shoot he will be an impact player on both sides.

[oldncreaky]

he is not a homerun unless he is top 2 and we know cade and mobley are guaranteed to be better. he was already drafted number 4 not some mid lotto so people are already expecting 1st rookie, all star. making couple of all stars is merely meeting expectations nothing impressive. his height 6'7 is what bothers me the most need to be 2 inches taller.

to me, barnes was rather a much safe high floor pick masai didnt want to gamble busts with wagner and kuminga.

Bro, this is one of the most stacked draft classes in a long time, the **** you mean he’s not a home run?

Fairly certain the poster you quoted is a legitimate troll. He said "curry always has been a horrible shooter." in another thread recently.

All three of the Cavs/Raps/Pistons should be psyched as hell about their rookies. This could end up being one of the best drafts ever.

Agree it could be one of the best drafts ever, and not just at the top with studs like Cade, Mobley, Barnes. Don't sleep on GIddey or Wagner, and GS is really glad they kept their picks. Talent all through the first round. Second rounders like Herb Jones, Ayo Dosunmo and BJ Boston. Undrafted players like Reaves and Yurtseven. Just about every team has a rookie or two that they are excited about.

Absolutely stacked.

[reanimator]

Some interesting metrics:

Spoiler:

Suggs has a lot of offensive burden for a rookie. I think his scoring efficiency will be fine as he gains some experience. I think its more so how good he will be on that side of the court not if.

[JackTalkThai]

Suggs the top rookie defender now and 12th in the league in Defensive Raptor for players that played over 830 minutes.

A lot has been made about Cade not having good teammates but try to be a good defender on the worst team record-wise in the league.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Being a good defender isn’t affected by bad teammates nearly as much as being a good offender is affected by bad teammates.

[Jadoogar]

Suggs is a menace on defense. When he learns how to shoot he will be an impact player on both sides.

This is why i was so high on Suggs. His floor is so high, even if everything goes wrong, he'll likely be an average starting point guard.
If he gets a shot, he could easily have a Jrue Holiday type career

[mademan]

Suggs the top rookie defender now and 12th in the league in Defensive Raptor for players that played over 830 minutes.

A lot has been made about Cade not having good teammates but try to be a good defender on the worst team record-wise in the league.


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Being a good defender isn’t affected by bad teammates nearly as much as being a good offender is affected by bad teammates.

lmao. Opposite

[JackTalkThai]

You can double team and shadow defend good scorers. There’s a reason why Cade Cunningham as a rookie is top 10 in the league in receiving defensive double teams.

Good defenders don’t get offensively double teamed. A good defender can still lock down his man one-on-one even if his team sucks.

That’s just the reality of basketball.

[basketballRob]

The Magic have had a top 10 defense since Suggs returned.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-team-defensive-rating-ranking-last-10-games

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[The-Power]

You can double team and shadow defend good scorers. There’s a reason why Cade Cunningham as a rookie is top 10 in the league in receiving defensive double teams.

Good defenders don’t get offensively double teamed. A good defender can still lock down his man one-on-one even if his team sucks.

That’s just the reality of basketball.

It's a lot easier for offenses to determine match-ups than it is for defenses. That's the reality of basketball. So no, you can't just ‘lock down’ your man if offensive schemes are designed to either take that defender away from the action or exploit defenses in their attempt to stick with or avoid particular match-ups.

[JonFromVA]

You can double team and shadow defend good scorers. There’s a reason why Cade Cunningham as a rookie is top 10 in the league in receiving defensive double teams.

Good defenders don’t get offensively double teamed. A good defender can still lock down his man one-on-one even if his team sucks.

That’s just the reality of basketball.

We're talking plus-minus statistics, and the ability of a player to move the needle in a positive direction relative to his teammates.

It's easier to ignore a good defensive player (pick on someone else, pull a big out of the paint with a shooter), but if an offensive player is constantly being doubled, that should create easy opportunities for his teammates - and the +/- stats will indicate that.

[JackTalkThai]

The Magic have had a top 10 defense since Suggs returned.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-team-defensive-rating-ranking-last-10-games

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

He’s a great on the ball defender. He’s going to improve any team’s defense and there’s little to nothing for opposing teams to do besides emphasize the other players who that elite defender isn’t guarding. Same goes for Mobley’s defensive prowess. It’s a stand alone skill that travels and is present on a nightly basis and that is largely un-defensible by opposing offenses.

[JackTalkThai]

You can double team and shadow defend good scorers. There’s a reason why Cade Cunningham as a rookie is top 10 in the league in receiving defensive double teams.

Good defenders don’t get offensively double teamed. A good defender can still lock down his man one-on-one even if his team sucks.

That’s just the reality of basketball.

We're talking plus-minus statistics, and the ability of a player to move the needle in a positive direction relative to his teammates.

It's easier to ignore a good defensive player (pick on someone else, pull a big out of the paint with a shooter), but if an offensive player is constantly being doubled, that should create easy opportunities for his teammates - and the +/- stats will indicate that.

Taking an elite offensive player out of his game is almost always going to positively affect the +/- of the team with the lock down defender. That’s the benefit of having a great defender. But taking Cade out of the game for example by constantly throwing double teams at him, that isn’t necessarily going to positively affect the Pistons because of the obvious dearth of other high end end offensive players on the roster.

[JonFromVA]

You can double team and shadow defend good scorers. There’s a reason why Cade Cunningham as a rookie is top 10 in the league in receiving defensive double teams.

Good defenders don’t get offensively double teamed. A good defender can still lock down his man one-on-one even if his team sucks.

That’s just the reality of basketball.

We're talking plus-minus statistics, and the ability of a player to move the needle in a positive direction relative to his teammates.

It's easier to ignore a good defensive player (pick on someone else, pull a big out of the paint with a shooter), but if an offensive player is constantly being doubled, that should create easy opportunities for his teammates - and the +/- stats will indicate that.

Taking an elite offensive player out of his game is almost always going to positively affect the +/- of the team with the lock down defender. That’s the benefit of having a great defender. But taking Cade out of the game for example by constantly throwing double teams at him, that isn’t necessarily going to positively affect the Pistons because of the obvious dearth of other high end end offensive players on the roster.

Which is why you set a screen on the elite defender and go pick on someone else, or if your teammates suck on D just let a teammate go pick on someone else. Plus-Minus doesn't care who scores as long as it happens when the player in question is on the floor.

Similarly the question isn't whether Cade's teammates are effective when he's doubled, it's relative to the alternative. Are they better without Cade on the floor drawing double teams?

Versus the Cavs, the Pistons got back in to the game with their second unit, they were able to move the ball and create easier shots than Cade trying to drive on a taller player in to other taller players. I didn't notice the Cavs doubling him at all, but I suspect the stat you're quoting disagrees with me, because stats don't understand strategy and initiative. If Cade wants to drive in to a wall and then shoot, the stat is going to notice multiple players in his vicinity when he fires up his shot or tries to pass out.

[tdotrep2]

i feel like people just love to troll/hate. No could of possibly thought Cade was a bust, just stupid. Green will find his way as well, the talent is too obvious.