2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

reanimator · Post #281 » by **reanimator** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:57 am

MotownMadness wrote:Cade fatigued out and the Celtics adjusted making him go 3-11 in the second half. Still a monster game til that last qtr.

Yep unfortunately the burden of being the only shot creator on a team. Seems most of the rookies aren't doing much tonight or getting blown out so I commend the effort.

The Moose · Post #282 » by **The Moose** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:59 am

The Moose wrote:Cade with 18/4/4 and the lead at half time vs the hottest team in the league

see if he can keep it up in the 2nd half without getting gassed

well, he got gassed.
I think conditioning is a major thing for Cade to work on this off season, he has a very physical style on offence and its very draining when you have such a high usage rate as a rookie.

going forward though as the team gets better he won't have to have such a high usage rate

Mr Peanut · Post #283 » by **Mr Peanut** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:01 am

Insane game from Cade through three quarters. Unfortunately just ran out of steam and started throwing up shots in the 4th. He'll benefit from having a bit more help next season.

Tripod · Post #284 » by **Tripod** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:17 am

Other rookies just will never get the amount of shots Cade gets. He had 27 tonight. Next highest teammate had 17.

Mobley and Barnes will never have 10 more shot attempts than the 2nd guy. Like tonight, nothing guys are 3rd on their team in SA, and each are missing a starter....2 for Cavs.

reanimator · Post #285 » by **reanimator** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:19 am

Get vs create is exactly the issue. Pistons would love if someone could "get" Cade some easy looks.

whitehops · Post #286 » by **whitehops** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:31 am

Tripod wrote:Other rookies just will never get the amount of shots Cade gets. He had 27 tonight. Next highest teammate had 17.

Mobley and Barnes will never have 10 more shot attempts than the 2nd guy. Like tonight, nothing guys are 3rd on their team in SA, and each are missing a starter....2 for Cavs.

you probably didn't watch but in cade's 40 minutes he pretty much took the ball up the floor, read the defense, directed the offense and then created for himself and others EVERY POSSESSION. he wasn't just chucking, he was creating offense and plays like this and this are just examples of what cade had to do to create offense for his team, despite putting up 27 shots.

Tripod · Post #287 » by **Tripod** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:34 am

Delete

Tripod · Post #288 » by **Tripod** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:40 am

whitehops wrote:
Tripod wrote:Other rookies just will never get the amount of shots Cade gets. He had 27 tonight. Next highest teammate had 17.

Mobley and Barnes will never have 10 more shot attempts than the 2nd guy. Like tonight, nothing guys are 3rd on their team in SA, and each are missing a starter....2 for Cavs.

you probably didn't watch but in cade's 40 minutes he pretty much took the ball up the floor, read the defense, directed the offense and then created for himself and others EVERY POSSESSION. he wasn't just chucking, he was creating offense and plays like this and this are just examples of what cade had to do to create offense for his team, despite putting up 27 shots.

It wasn't a dig at Cade. It's just pointing out the obvious difference between teams.

We all know Cade is the top dog in Detroit.
Mobley is 3rd-5th option for offense on Cavs on any given night.
Barnes is the 4th/5th option on a healthy Raps team

Just different guys, on different teams, and different opportunities and usage. They are all great and just scratching the surface.

whitehops · Post #289 » by **whitehops** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:47 am

Tripod wrote:It wasn't a dig at Cade. It's just pointing out the obvious difference between teams.

We all know Cade is the top dog in Detroit.
Mobley is 3rd-5th option for offense on Cavs on any given night.
Barnes is the 4th/5th option on a healthy Raps team

Just different guys, on different teams, and different opportunities and usage. They are all great and just scratching the surface.

but i think that's completely ignoring the fact that mobley and barnes don't have the ability to do what cade does. it's like saying chris boucher could do what barnes does, it's just not his role on the team.

dc · Post #290 » by dc » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:50 am

Cade just seems to have that "eye test" look about him of a guy who is going to dominate once he gets about 120 games under his belt.

There are a lot of very good players up and down this draft, but to me Cade and Mobley are the 2 guys who stand out in that regard to being franchise players. They're the only 2 sure fire bets, IMO. A lot of guys who look like they could be very good #2 and #3 players on contending teams, but these 2 guys stand above.

BuddyBuckets · Post #291 » by **BuddyBuckets** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:53 am

Trey Murphy III with his best game tonight. 32pts (7-12 from deep), 9 boards.

Tripod · Post #292 » by **Tripod** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:57 am

whitehops wrote:
Tripod wrote:It wasn't a dig at Cade. It's just pointing out the obvious difference between teams.

We all know Cade is the top dog in Detroit.
Mobley is 3rd-5th option for offense on Cavs on any given night.
Barnes is the 4th/5th option on a healthy Raps team

Just different guys, on different teams, and different opportunities and usage. They are all great and just scratching the surface.

but i think that's completely ignoring the fact that mobley and barnes don't have the ability to do what cade does. it's like saying chris boucher could do what barnes does, it's just not his role on the team.

It's not ignoring anything. Cade would not be the starting PG on the Raps, so he would NEVER get the opportunity to have the ball like on Detroit. And with Fred, GTJ and Siakam being the first 3 options for shots, his shot totals would be way down. It's just reality. Hell even FVV said someone has to sacrifice....and there is a pecking order. Guess who sacrifices the most? The rookie.

Again it was not a dig at Cade. He is making the best of his situation and opportunity.

whitehops · Post #293 » by **whitehops** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:05 am

Tripod wrote:It's not ignoring anything. Cade would not be the starting PG on the Raps, so he would NEVER get the opportunity to have the ball like on Detroit. And with Fred, GTJ and Siakam being the first 3 options for shots, his shot totals would be way down. It's just reality. He'll even FVV said someone has to sacrifice....and there is a pecking order.

Again it was not a dig at Cade. He is making the best of his situation and opportunity.

if you think cade would be the 4th option on the raptors then i don't know what to tell you. maybe watch cade play sometime?

Tripod · Post #294 » by **Tripod** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:13 am

whitehops wrote:
Tripod wrote:It's not ignoring anything. Cade would not be the starting PG on the Raps, so he would NEVER get the opportunity to have the ball like on Detroit. And with Fred, GTJ and Siakam being the first 3 options for shots, his shot totals would be way down. It's just reality. He'll even FVV said someone has to sacrifice....and there is a pecking order.

Again it was not a dig at Cade. He is making the best of his situation and opportunity.

if you think cade would be the 4th option on the raptors then i don't know what to tell you. maybe watch cade play sometime?

Ok, we will just ignore that 4 Raptors average more pts a game than Cade and all 4 have a better S%

You are right, the 2 all stars and 2 shooters would defer to the rookie with the worse S% in Cade.

Meanwhile, Barnes has the BEST S% of any of the starting 5....oh wait...best S% of ANYONE on the team who has played at least 5 games. And he often is the 5th scoring option.

Tripod · Post #295 » by **Tripod** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:36 am

In a tie game in the 4th Q, Barnes takes over defensively.

Barnes gets a steal at 2:12 moves the ball up court, Birch scores on a putback.
Next PHX possession Barnes steals the ball at 1:47 and goes the length of the floor and dunks it.
Timeout Phx
Phoenix comes back and makes some baskets. Raps lead by 1 with 26 seconds left.
Booker takes a 3, misses, Suns get rebound, pass made, Barnes steals it again with 22 seconds left and quickly moves it to GTJ who is fouled
GTJ makes both FT and seals the Raps win!
3 steals and a dunk in less than than 2 minutes against the top team in the league in a tie game of the 4th Q. Love it.

15-6-1-5-2 as the 3rd scoring option tonight(GTJ 42 pts, Siakam 25 pts). Will take it.

TheLand13 · Post #296 » by **TheLand13** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:55 am

19/12/4/1/1 for Mobley against Bam, an incredibly difficult thing to do. We're seeing what he can do as the second option on offense, and it has me excited for the future of the franchise.

MrBigShot · Post #297 » by **MrBigShot** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:05 am

#1 pick on worst team in the league and one of the worst again this year gets a lot of shot attempts and usage.

In another news, the sky is also blue.

reanimator · Post #298 » by **reanimator** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:12 pm

TheLand13 wrote:19/12/4/1/1 for Mobley against Bam, an incredibly difficult thing to do. We're seeing what he can do as the second option on offense, and it has me excited for the future of the franchise.

I mean Bam did have 30/18/3 and the Heat were up comfortably all game if we apply the Cade standard

Barnes needed 17 shots for 15 pts despite not being a focal point of the defense

I kid. Solid games by both and I can't wait to see where all these guys progress to in year 2.

HotelVitale · Post #299 » by **HotelVitale** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:08 pm

Tripod wrote:
whitehops wrote:
Tripod wrote:It wasn't a dig at Cade. It's just pointing out the obvious difference between teams.

We all know Cade is the top dog in Detroit.
Mobley is 3rd-5th option for offense on Cavs on any given night.
Barnes is the 4th/5th option on a healthy Raps team

Just different guys, on different teams, and different opportunities and usage. They are all great and just scratching the surface.

but i think that's completely ignoring the fact that mobley and barnes don't have the ability to do what cade does. it's like saying chris boucher could do what barnes does, it's just not his role on the team.

It's not ignoring anything. Cade would not be the starting PG on the Raps, so he would NEVER get the opportunity to have the ball like on Detroit. And with Fred, GTJ and Siakam being the first 3 options for shots, his shot totals would be way down. It's just reality. Hell even FVV said someone has to sacrifice....and there is a pecking order. Guess who sacrifices the most? The rookie.

Again it was not a dig at Cade. He is making the best of his situation and opportunity.

I think you’re dead on there, but the reverse is not true—Mobley couldn’t be a first option for a team that’s beating good teams now, nor could Barnes. That’s the relevant point here. One of Cade’s main strengths is that he’s a high volume guy whose handle, passing, size, and shooting means he can create a ton for his team. And it also means that it makes sense for his team to let him keep taking those shots as he develops.

So yes I think you’re right that Cade has a larger creation role and more rope to keep firing because the Pistons are bad, but it’s missing the point if you’re thinking that the disparity between him and the other rooks is just about opportunity and team now. Forcing Mobley to initiate 50 times per game, run pnr and fire up bad jumpers off the dribble makes no sense whatsoever no matter what team he’d be on.

whitehops · Post #300 » by **whitehops** » Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:49 pm

i'm sure people here are getting annoyed with all the cade talk so i want to give some context. the pistons gave cade the keys to the team, so to speak, just before the all star break. in the 10 games since, cade is averaging 22/7/6 (.511 TS%). but the excitement isn't about those stats, it's the impact it's had on the team.

in the 57 games previous, the team's ORTG was 104.0 which was second worst in the league. in the last 10 games their ORTG has been 114.7, which would be good for third best in the league. they are also 6-4 in that stretch and even their losses have been close/competitive.

so yeah, it's not just that cade is getting x number of points or whatever, it's how he's looked commanding the team and there is a literal night and day difference both watching the team and in the results. it's obviously taken him a while to get to the point where he can handle that role and still has many areas to improve, but the fact that a 20-year old rookie can have lebron-like usage and lead a top offense is special, and pistons fans are excited.

Who is the Rookie of the Year?