NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[5IVE5TAR5]

i believe luka has passed shai in mvp voting - should be jokic and luka unless shai does something crazy

[AleksandarN]

SGA:

1st in total points
1st in total steals and SPG
1st in total Win Shares and WS/48
1st in EPM
Better record (yes, it's only by a game)
+11.1 ON, +12.2 On/Off
30.6 PER
10.1 BPM
165.7 TS-added
3/1 Assist/TO ratio

Jokic:

1st in BPM (14.0)
1st in VORP (7.1)
4th in EPM
31.6 PER
+9.0 ON, +17.3 On/Off
143.5 TS-added
3/1 Assist/TO ratio

Again, we can't keep using the advanced stats argument with Jokic when he no longer is.....dominating the advanced stats. SGA's numbers are even more crazy when you consider the flaws of all-in-one efficiency box stats like PER and BPM, i.e. he's not padding either with DBPM and rebounding totals as a 6'6 guard.

You also have to take into consideration the strength of schedule and how many back to backs both teams played. How much injuries each team faces etc.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic also ahead in DPM, Time-Decay RAPM, and LEBRON. Giannis is just barely ahead in LEBRON WAR though. Stats are noisy enough that you could argue for SGA, Giannis, Luka, or Jokic for MVP

I don’t know how anyone with advance stat understanding goes anyone over Jokic...

That's the biggest problem with advanced stats, you don't need to watch games anymore.

I agree if you watch Jokic you can see he is the most important player to his team.

[Doctor MJ]

Feels like the mvp today is Jokic at one followed by a wide gap by SGA and then wayyyyy behind those 2 Luka and Giannis- Then Tatum cause winning matters

I don't think there's actually a wide gap between Jokic & Shai.

I also think that while Giannis & Luka are next on the latest straw poll, Kawhi is the guy I could see gaining momentum if the Clippers get the top seed in the West.

That would be even bigger joke than SGA. Do you know that Kawhi, George and Harden have almost identical, crazy good, +/-; on/off? Who is the most impactful of those 3?

I'm honestly there with you with Kawhi. I don't think Kawhi really should get talked about as if he's drastically more impactful than his teammates.

I will say though that the idea that SGA winning would be a joke is absurd. He's pretty clearly got all the things you'd expect from an MVP. I have some playoff concerns there, but it's a regular season award, and his regular season performance puts him in the top tier.

[Doctor MJ]

SGA:

1st in total points
1st in total steals and SPG
1st in total Win Shares and WS/48
1st in EPM
Better record (yes, it's only by a game)
+11.1 ON, +12.2 On/Off
30.6 PER
10.1 BPM
165.7 TS-added
3/1 Assist/TO ratio

Jokic:

1st in BPM (14.0)
1st in VORP (7.1)
4th in EPM
31.6 PER
+9.0 ON, +17.3 On/Off
143.5 TS-added
3/1 Assist/TO ratio

Again, we can't keep using the advanced stats argument with Jokic when he no longer is.....dominating the advanced stats. SGA's numbers are even more crazy when you consider the flaws of all-in-one efficiency box stats like PER and BPM, i.e. he's not padding either with DBPM and rebounding totals.

I’m pretty sure most of the people who are big on advanced stats have Jokić and SGA as a close 1 and 2. I know I certainly do.

Yeah, this isn't a situation where Shai has the clear cut advantage, but he's doing well enough it makes sense to have a conversation.

[Swish77]

I just don't understand how Luka isn't 2nd in the MVP race blows my mind he's not.

[timO]

i believe luka has passed shai in mvp voting - should be jokic and luka unless shai does something crazy

i believe mavs will lose play-in so in mvp he will be like 12

[Special_Puppy]

I don’t know how anyone with advance stat understanding goes anyone over Jokic...

I would probably pick Jokic (with SGA and Giannis not that far behind), but there's definitely a case for SGA+Giannis+Luka with advanced stats given how inherently noisy they are and given how Jokic trails in EPM and LEBRON WAR

[Special_Puppy]

I just don't understand how Luka isn't 2nd in the MVP race blows my mind he's not.

SGA has been a much better defender than Luka even if the former is slightly worse on offense

[Swish77]

i believe luka has passed shai in mvp voting - should be jokic and luka unless shai does something crazy

i believe mavs will lose play-in so in mvp he will be like 12

I bet the mavs go deeper in the playoffs than OKC does.

[timO]

i believe luka has passed shai in mvp voting - should be jokic and luka unless shai does something crazy

i believe mavs will lose play-in so in mvp he will be like 12

I bet the mavs go deeper in the playoffs than OKC does.

i bet they lose play-in, but if the pass they have a 4-0 incoming in first round by whoever finish top 1-2

[Swish77]

I just don't understand how Luka isn't 2nd in the MVP race blows my mind he's not.

SGA has been a much better defender than Luka even if the former is slightly worse on offense

Slightly? Luka avg more Points, rebounds and Assists. SGA play better defense Ill give you that.

[Swish77]

i believe mavs will lose play-in so in mvp he will be like 12

I bet the mavs go deeper in the playoffs than OKC does.

i bet they lose play-in, but if the pass they have a 4-0 incoming in first round by whoever finish top 1-2

Sounds like the incoming OKC playoffs.

[timO]

I bet the mavs go deeper in the playoffs than OKC does.

i bet they lose play-in, but if the pass they have a 4-0 incoming in first round by whoever finish top 1-2

Sounds like the incoming OKC playoffs.

seems like 2# vs #7

right now mavs has to win in Sacramento to be #7

or win vs lakers or gsw to face minny who gives you a 4-0

betting u dont pass play-in

sacto 2-0 vs mavs

okc 1-1 mavs

minny 3-1 mavs

denver 2-0 mavs

clips 2-1 mavs

welcome to reality

[Doctor MJ]

Feels like the mvp today is Jokic at one followed by a wide gap by SGA and then wayyyyy behind those 2 Luka and Giannis- Then Tatum cause winning matters

I don't think there's actually a wide gap between Jokic & Shai.

I also think that while Giannis & Luka are next on the latest straw poll, Kawhi is the guy I could see gaining momentum if the Clippers get the top seed in the West.

Maybe you are right -but as it stands Jokic is the fav and reining champ that got stiffed last year...making him the people and the writers choice- plus he is universally considered the best player on earth regardless of if Embiid or Giannis or Luka or SGA out play him...he is just the guy right now...period.

For SGA to over take him SGA gonna have to be amazing down the stretch and OKC gotta win a lot of games...maybe be in first... if SGA was American and played for the lakers or Boston it would be closer lol


Kawhi may be in the running cause he “needs one” but he is 5th in a 5 man race and I think the Boston voters have Tatum ahead of him -

I don't disagree with you at all about Jokic's worthiness, and would agree he's in the lead right now, but I think his edge over Shai isn't very safe at all.

[Swish77]

i bet they lose play-in, but if the pass they have a 4-0 incoming in first round by whoever finish top 1-2

Sounds like the incoming OKC playoffs.

seems like 2# vs #7

right now mavs has to win in Sacramento to be #7

or win vs lakers or gsw

betting u dont pass play-in

I had no idea the Playoffs started today. You seem upset after being blown out on saturday by the mavs.

[Bob8]

i bet they lose play-in, but if the pass they have a 4-0 incoming in first round by whoever finish top 1-2

Sounds like the incoming OKC playoffs.

seems like 2# vs #7

right now mavs has to win in Sacramento to be #7

or win vs lakers or gsw to face minny who gives you a 4-0

betting u dont pass play-in

Yes, being 1 game behind 5th place, winning last 5 games, and 28 games to go, is cemented play-in.

[timO]

Sounds like the incoming OKC playoffs.

seems like 2# vs #7

right now mavs has to win in Sacramento to be #7

or win vs lakers or gsw

betting u dont pass play-in

I had no idea the Playoffs started today. You seem upset after being blown out on saturday by the mavs.

you seem on fire to win 6 in a row, then u lost 4 etc

[Bob8]

seems like 2# vs #7

right now mavs has to win in Sacramento to be #7

or win vs lakers or gsw

betting u dont pass play-in

I had no idea the Playoffs started today. You seem upset after being blown out on saturday by the mavs.

you seem on fire to win 6 in a row, then u lost 4 etc

They might win 33 in a row and there won't be any doubt, who MVP is. Although +/- might still be a problem.

[timO]

I had no idea the Playoffs started today. You seem upset after being blown out on saturday by the mavs.

you seem on fire to win 6 in a row, then u lost 4 etc

They might win 33 in a row and there won't be any doubt, who MVP is. Although +/- might still be a problem.

maybe, or maybe u fall off the bed and wake up