Jokic's teammates failed him...AGAIN.

[Sedale Threatt]

The problem wasn't Jokic teammates.

lol, yeah it was. Outside of Murray the rest of the team put up 21 points on horrendous shooting. I don't know how anybody without an agenda can gloss over that. That's a horrifying lack of support.

Everybody always talks about how stars make role players better, but I was watching the NBA TV postgame last night and Haywood or Haslem made a great point: Role players make stars better too. Run through the league's champions, and every single one will have a handful of support players who played integral roles. (As a Lakers fan, as great as Shaq and Kobe and Pau were, we never would have won anything without players like Fisher, Fox, Horry, Odom, Artest ... the list goes on.)

Denver got just enough last year, just like Golden State did the year before. But they collectively sht the bed in Game 7 and that doomed their chances.

[Edrees]

Basically this.

Gotta get more depth this summer, at minimum.

It's not that simple. You get an offensive all star and your salary is tied to that and now you don't have good defenders and length at all the other positions. Not having another max level player allowed the Nuggets to be a deep team offense+ defense during their title run.

Bradley Beal is an all star, ask the suns how trading their defensive depth for him worked out.

If Denver trades for another all star, they will have to fill out the roster with one dimension players who can't defend. It doesn't necessarily make the Nuggets better than they are now.

Assuming they keep Murray, if they get an allstar he'd have to be a two way type. Not a Beal type guy. That said the team has to get depth...especially to give Jokic some rest. They might have some young guys on the bench who can step into bigger roles next year already. So their lack of depth might correct itself to some degree. They still need that back up big and a point would be awfully nice. Braun looks like a legit rotation guy already. Now if they can just somehow get Watson or one of their other early 20's guys to make the next leap.

That's my point. Making a distinction that playin with any all star will make the team better is false. You can add an all star and it would be harder for jokic if the overall team defense is worse. So the bare minimum "all star" is not what Jokic needs. He needs a really high level all star aka an All NBA team level player.

People are using the fact that he hasn't had an all star to prop Jokic up, when the reality is not having an all star has allowed him as an average defender to be surrounding by an entire roster of good to above average defenders.

This is the first series where that supporting cast didn't actually show up. They were very solid last year.

I just can't see the Nuggets acquiring a two way all star without having to sacrifice the bench or the 4th or 5th guys and have one dimensional players in those positions instead of a KCP or an Aaron Gordon.

[dhsilv2]

It's not that simple. You get an offensive all star and your salary is tied to that and now you don't have good defenders and length at all the other positions. Not having another max level player allowed the Nuggets to be a deep team offense+ defense during their title run.

Bradley Beal is an all star, ask the suns how trading their defensive depth for him worked out.

If Denver trades for another all star, they will have to fill out the roster with one dimension players who can't defend. It doesn't necessarily make the Nuggets better than they are now.

Assuming they keep Murray, if they get an allstar he'd have to be a two way type. Not a Beal type guy. That said the team has to get depth...especially to give Jokic some rest. They might have some young guys on the bench who can step into bigger roles next year already. So their lack of depth might correct itself to some degree. They still need that back up big and a point would be awfully nice. Braun looks like a legit rotation guy already. Now if they can just somehow get Watson or one of their other early 20's guys to make the next leap.

That's my point. Making a distinction that playin with any all star will make the team better is false. You can add an all star and it would be harder for jokic if the overall team defense is worse. So the bare minimum "all star" is not what Jokic needs. He needs a really high level all star aka an All NBA team level player.

People are using the fact that he hasn't had an all star to prop Jokic up, when the reality is not having an all star has allowed him as an average defender to be surrounding by an entire roster of good to above average defenders.

This is the first series where that supporting cast didn't actually show up. They were very solid last year.

I just can't see the Nuggets acquiring a two way all star without having to sacrifice the bench or the 4th or 5th guys and have one dimensional players in those positions instead of a KCP or an Aaron Gordon.

If you could replace MPJ with any allstar from this years team, I think they're much better in that hypothetical. Which is the only player they hypothetically could replace.

[Special_Puppy]

It's not that simple. You get an offensive all star and your salary is tied to that and now you don't have good defenders and length at all the other positions. Not having another max level player allowed the Nuggets to be a deep team offense+ defense during their title run.

Bradley Beal is an all star, ask the suns how trading their defensive depth for him worked out.

If Denver trades for another all star, they will have to fill out the roster with one dimension players who can't defend. It doesn't necessarily make the Nuggets better than they are now.

Assuming they keep Murray, if they get an allstar he'd have to be a two way type. Not a Beal type guy. That said the team has to get depth...especially to give Jokic some rest. They might have some young guys on the bench who can step into bigger roles next year already. So their lack of depth might correct itself to some degree. They still need that back up big and a point would be awfully nice. Braun looks like a legit rotation guy already. Now if they can just somehow get Watson or one of their other early 20's guys to make the next leap.

That's my point. Making a distinction that playin with any all star will make the team better is false. You can add an all star and it would be harder for jokic if the overall team defense is worse. So the bare minimum "all star" is not what Jokic needs. He needs a really high level all star aka an All NBA team level player.

People are using the fact that he hasn't had an all star to prop Jokic up, when the reality is not having an all star has allowed him as an average defender to be surrounding by an entire roster of good to above average defenders.

This is the first series where that supporting cast didn't actually show up. They were very solid last year.

I just can't see the Nuggets acquiring a two way all star without having to sacrifice the bench or the 4th or 5th guys and have one dimensional players in those positions instead of a KCP or an Aaron Gordon.

I don’t think the defensive supporting cast is particularly great? Just AG+KCP are the only two clear positives. Murray is a net negative. MPJ is neutral. Watson is a clear positive but had a tiny role in the playoffs this year. Bruce Brown was a clear positive but he left. This isn’t Memphis with Ja last year

[Alatan]

It's not that simple. You get an offensive all star and your salary is tied to that and now you don't have good defenders and length at all the other positions. Not having another max level player allowed the Nuggets to be a deep team offense+ defense during their title run.

Bradley Beal is an all star, ask the suns how trading their defensive depth for him worked out.

If Denver trades for another all star, they will have to fill out the roster with one dimension players who can't defend. It doesn't necessarily make the Nuggets better than they are now.

Assuming they keep Murray, if they get an allstar he'd have to be a two way type. Not a Beal type guy. That said the team has to get depth...especially to give Jokic some rest. They might have some young guys on the bench who can step into bigger roles next year already. So their lack of depth might correct itself to some degree. They still need that back up big and a point would be awfully nice. Braun looks like a legit rotation guy already. Now if they can just somehow get Watson or one of their other early 20's guys to make the next leap.

That's my point. Making a distinction that playin with any all star will make the team better is false. You can add an all star and it would be harder for jokic if the overall team defense is worse. So the bare minimum "all star" is not what Jokic needs. He needs a really high level all star aka an All NBA team level player.

People are using the fact that he hasn't had an all star to prop Jokic up, when the reality is not having an all star has allowed him as an average defender to be surrounding by an entire roster of good to above average defenders.

This is the first series where that supporting cast didn't actually show up. They were very solid last year.

I just can't see the Nuggets acquiring a two way all star without having to sacrifice the bench or the 4th or 5th guys and have one dimensional players in those positions instead of a KCP or an Aaron Gordon.

Dude you are completely talking out of your ass. Murray and MPJ are not allstars but they are paid max contracts since before the title run. That is the problem. If Murray and MPJ were paid like 25 and 15 each then denver could make some moves to improve the roster. But thanks to TC they are stuck with albatross contracts, few picks and no way to improve or even keep some of the expiring players.

[One_and_Done]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

[sikma42]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Seriously, people are really taking MPJ for granted. There are several teams that would pay him.

[Optimus_Steel]

It was management that refused to get depth last offseason and in the trade deadline. They were already thin last year when they won and that got worse.

[Optimus_Steel]

It's funny how narratives get set. Ant was pretty awful in game 7 especially for his standards but the team picked up the slack and Naz Reid did his thing. Jokic played well but the team was putrid down the stretch, especially MPJ. You'd think after the game with all the hype Ant just took the team on his back and willed them to victory but that wasn't really the case.

I cannot stand the star controls everything discourse.

The Nuggets don’t lose, Jokic loses. The Suns don’t get swept, KD gets swept. Then when Ant has a close out game 7, much like Kobe’s in 2010, it wasn’t the Wolves or Lakers won it was Kobe and Ant won.

Infuriating.

Yea I agree with this. Ant is a fantastic player but the media was fawning over him after game 7 like he lead the 20pt comeback on his own. Reality is that the guy was absolutely awful in game 7 and it was a full team effort win. Its like the media said well on the Minny team we only know the guy on that Netflix movie so lets talk about him.

[Optimus_Steel]

The problem wasn't Jokic teammates. The problem was as the MVP he was supposed to be the best player on the court and he wasn't Ant was.

His lack of ability to alter shots at the rim has and always will be a huge problem it is really hard to build a team that can hold together defensively without having a guy with having an interior presence to alter or block shots around the rim.

That has always been the achilles heel of the Nuggets and honestly I don't see how they fix it. They just have to hope they can outscore everyone to the point where it doesn't matter.

Ant was absolutely awful in game 7… it was a total team effort win.

[Alatan]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Who said i want to retain him. Dude is complete ass. Take him for free if you ask me, but nobody wants that albatross of a contract.

[Special_Puppy]

The problem wasn't Jokic teammates. The problem was as the MVP he was supposed to be the best player on the court and he wasn't Ant was.

His lack of ability to alter shots at the rim has and always will be a huge problem it is really hard to build a team that can hold together defensively without having a guy with having an interior presence to alter or block shots around the rim.

That has always been the achilles heel of the Nuggets and honestly I don't see how they fix it. They just have to hope they can outscore everyone to the point where it doesn't matter.

Ant was absolutely awful in game 7… it was a total team effort win.

Ant did a lot outside of scoring to make himself a net positive in Game 7. Ant's supporting cast (KAT+Gobert+McDaniels+Conley) obviously did way better than Jokic's this past post-season though

[One_and_Done]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Who said i want to retain him. Dude is complete ass. Take him for free if you ask me, but nobody wants that albatross of a contract.

Nobody was complaining in Rnd 1, or the RS.

I actually think some teams would take him for free, but probably none with cap space. Certainly he'd be offered above 15 mill.

[luka77doncic]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Who said i want to retain him. Dude is complete ass. Take him for free if you ask me, but nobody wants that albatross of a contract.

lol few weeks ago, you called him a "hero" against the Lakers and now that he's defended properly by the Wolves, he's a complete ass and albatross of a contract. Oh my, looked how the tables have turned on some Nuggets grumpy fans.

MPJ is the silent hero of the Nuggets 1st round.

[Alatan]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Who said i want to retain him. Dude is complete ass. Take him for free if you ask me, but nobody wants that albatross of a contract.

lol few weeks ago, you called him a "hero" against the Lakers and now that he's defended properly by the Wolves, he's a complete ass and albatross of a contract. Oh my, looked how the tables have turned on some Nuggets grumpy fans.

MPJ is the silent hero of the Nuggets 1st round.

I called him the unsong hero of a serues where he played well while others played poorly. A couple of games doesnt make him good. He was also giving defensive effort and rotated well in a couple of games but that also faded quickly.

Blame my optimism all you want but the guy is sadly trash.

[Alatan]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Who said i want to retain him. Dude is complete ass. Take him for free if you ask me, but nobody wants that albatross of a contract.

Nobody was complaining in Rnd 1, or the RS.

I actually think some teams would take him for free, but probably none with cap space. Certainly he'd be offered above 15 mill.

Inround one he hit his open shots. Who wants a streaky, spot up shooter without any creation abilities that sucks as a perimeter defender and cant guard bigs while also being injury prone...

[dhsilv2]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Seriously, people are really taking MPJ for granted. There are several teams that would pay him.

Then those GM's are idiots.

[dhsilv2]

As if another team wouldn't pay Murray the max. You are also kidding yourself if you think you could retain MPJ on the open market for only $15 mill a year.

Who said i want to retain him. Dude is complete ass. Take him for free if you ask me, but nobody wants that albatross of a contract.

lol few weeks ago, you called him a "hero" against the Lakers and now that he's defended properly by the Wolves, he's a complete ass and albatross of a contract. Oh my, looked how the tables have turned on some Nuggets grumpy fans.

MPJ is the silent hero of the Nuggets 1st round.

Danny Green was a silent hero on multiple teams and won 3 rings on 3 different teams. He wasn't a max level player.

[SpurNani]

The problem with Jokic is he’s a one way star - offensive only. So you have to get limited offensive guys like Gordon, KCP, etc to make it all work.

When Denver had offensive minded pieces around Jokic like Jerami Grant, who is a 20+PPG scorer in the league, their defense wasn’t good and the team wasnt as good.

[TheShow2021]

The problem with Jokic is he’s a one way star - offensive only. So you have to get limited offensive guys like Gordon, KCP, etc to make it all work.

When Denver had offensive minded pieces around Jokic like Jerami Grant, who is a 20+PPG scorer in the league, their defense wasn’t good and the team wasnt as good.

It depends on the matchup. Ant's rim pressure makes him look bad, and he's a poor rim protector. Against some teams he's an elite defender. His IQ on both sides of the ball is the highest in the league. Stats like deflections are indicative of that.

You can say whatever you want about his defense, but the object of basketball is to outscore your opponents, and Jokic consistently dominates in the +- stats, which would suggest you are severely underrating his defense.