Lets admit the obvious: SGA is a better player than Luka

[HMFFL]

I’d go so far to say that SGA is better than Kobe. SGA shoots a higher percentage from the field, the arc and the FT line. He’s also averaged 30+ for the last three seasons which matches Kobe’s output over his 20 year career and he’s done it while shooting 50% from the floor. Kobe’s best season was 46%. He’s about to win a title without riding Shaq’s coattails or without Phil Jackson. His MVP already matches Kobe’s career output. If he finishes his career with 2-3 MVP’s, 2-3 titles, 2-3 FMVP’s and better all around stats (especially advanced metrics) how can you put him behind Kobe?

I don't think you can compare raw boxscore stats in a way you're doing it between the late 00s and the mid-20s.

That being said, SGA generated the highest EPM and LEBRON ranking in the whole league (I don't think Kobe was at any point the best in other advanced metrics, although was in ~top5 for a ~decade), and had boxscore production (BPM) on the level of Giannis in his MVP seasons. His playoff output is also very good.

I'm not that much interested in these historical comparisons nor long term projections of accolades, but where I can easily agree is that some people clearly can't look beyond their sympathies and acknowledge how amazing this season of SGA is.

i think sga just solved the historical rift between analytics and kobe's memory. he's like the love child of two problematic people. like if romeo and juliet had a baby before dying and the baby is sga.

Perfectly described.

[CobraCommander]

Why are we acting like the bar to be the best player on a bottom 5 team is a high. OKC has a bunch of guys who'd be the best player on a team like the current Nets

who?????

Do you really think not a single one of Shai’s teammates is better than D’Lo and Cam Johnson?

Oh he is - but he couldn’t make them a playoff team

[Special_Puppy]

who?????

Do you really think not a single one of Shai’s teammates is better than D’Lo and Cam Johnson?

Oh he is - but he couldn’t make them a playoff team

Neither did Aaron Gordon

[CobraCommander]

what does "better player" mean really.

Luka is one of the most naturally talented players we've seen in awhile. He does things that don't make sense, like they aren't even a big deal. Maybe because he's so naturally talented, he's never been forced to put the discipline around it like other pros have.

SGA has the professionalism and consistency that Luka doesn't. he's developed over a longer time horizon, and does both the "skill" things and "effort" things. he's also more portable and versatile. he didn't have the weight of hype or initial expectations that Luka did, so that gave him time to build himself into the player we see today.

I think in 2025 its fair to say SGA is the more complete player. I think its also fair to say that Luka is the more talented player.

Perfectly said -

This question should be-

who is the better player today - easy answer - sga

Who is the most talented player - easy answer - Luka

Who has the greatest upside - unknown - we have no idea if Luka cares to Max out his potential & we don’t know if this is the best Sga will become- he could keep getting better like jokic did.

Who would you build your team around - most GMs would talk SGA because they would trust a 26 year old mvp that is in shape over a guy that’s been in the league 8 years with enormous talent but questionable work habits and nagging injury history

But we all agree that if we are lucky - Luka comes back in shape and locked in to do battle for the title next year -

Because it would be a shame to have a player like Luka never meet his full potential

[CobraCommander]

Do you really think not a single one of Shai’s teammates is better than D’Lo and Cam Johnson?

Oh he is - but he couldn’t make them a playoff team

Neither did Aaron Gordon

Aaron Gordon was considered a number one option when he came to the nba - that’s not in debate

[Special_Puppy]

Oh he is - but he couldn’t make them a playoff team

Neither did Aaron Gordon

Aaron Gordon was considered a number one option when he came to the nba - that’s not in debate

And the only year he was the best player on his own team was 2018 when Orlando won 25 games

[Handlez]

I’d go so far to say that SGA is better than Kobe. SGA shoots a higher percentage from the field, the arc and the FT line. He’s also averaged 30+ for the last three seasons which matches Kobe’s output over his 20 year career and he’s done it while shooting 50% from the floor. Kobe’s best season was 46%. He’s about to win a title without riding Shaq’s coattails or without Phil Jackson. His MVP already matches Kobe’s career output. If he finishes his career with 2-3 MVP’s, 2-3 titles, 2-3 FMVP’s and better all around stats (especially advanced metrics) how can you put him behind Kobe?

Kobe is the only player in league history to go back to back without a fellow top 75 player of all time.

Slow down.

Kobe 09 western finals...34, 6, 6, 63TS%, 131ORtg.

Kobe 10 western finals...34, 7, 8, 64TS%, 135 ORtg. (One of the most brilliant and impressive displays of individual shot making series of all time)

Never forget.

[Ssj16]

well in this thread i read luka and draymond green in the same sentence as defenders.

what's happening with this board?

as much as i hate green and like luka, come on... luka when he's trying he's almost a mediocre defender. green is perennial elite.

I'm telling you the trolling and major bad takes are so out of control. But it's typically the same 5-7 user accounts with the same terrible takes.

[mowcrowbar]

SGA plays defense, so yes

[Raps in 4]

I’d go so far to say that SGA is better than Kobe. SGA shoots a higher percentage from the field, the arc and the FT line. He’s also averaged 30+ for the last three seasons which matches Kobe’s output over his 20 year career and he’s done it while shooting 50% from the floor. Kobe’s best season was 46%. He’s about to win a title without riding Shaq’s coattails or without Phil Jackson. His MVP already matches Kobe’s career output. If he finishes his career with 2-3 MVP’s, 2-3 titles, 2-3 FMVP’s and better all around stats (especially advanced metrics) how can you put him behind Kobe?

Kobe is the only player in league history to go back to back without a fellow top 75 player of all time.

Slow down.

Kobe 09 western finals...34, 6, 6, 63TS%, 131ORtg.

Kobe 10 western finals...34, 7, 8, 64TS%, 135 ORtg. (One of the most brilliant and impressive displays of individual shot making series of all time)

Never forget.

Those two playoff runs were certainly impressive, but Pau not being in the top-75 is a crime. He had a better career, and higher peak, than a lot of the guys who made the cut.

That entire list (for both players and coaches) is a joke that isn't based on any sort of objective analysis.

[boogiezen]

SGA plays defense, so yes

Or he got the NBA people behind him.

[morosis]

Perfectly said -

This question should be-

who is the better player today - easy answer - sga

Who is the most talented player - easy answer - Luka

Who has the greatest upside - unknown - we have no idea if Luka cares to Max out his potential & we don’t know if this is the best Sga will become- he could keep getting better like jokic did.

Who would you build your team around - most GMs would talk SGA because they would trust a 26 year old mvp that is in shape over a guy that’s been in the league 8 years with enormous talent but questionable work habits and nagging injury history

But we all agree that if we are lucky - Luka comes back in shape and locked in to do battle for the title next year -

Because it would be a shame to have a player like Luka never meet his full potential

agree 100%. i also hope the best version of Luka we see is ahead of us, and not behind us. Sadly, nba history is full of people who were so talented that they never really developed the professionalism and habits. lets hope Luka "gets it" and shows us how great he can be with an alignment of his prodigious talent and a nice dose of real professionalism. he's proven that he doesn't need to be kobe in terms of work ethic and "good" habits to be among the very best, but man, if he could just get his "bad" habits under some control, its scary to think what he could be.

my favorite thing about sga isn't how clever he can be on the floor, or even his historic level production. its that when the best player on a team is such a professional, it becomes a culture. its refreshing for me. i feel like sga is low-key doing the thing kobe did, and timmy d did, where he is embracing the real job of the #1 on a team: setting the tone for every player that walks in the door. he gets better every year, and there is no way that is happening unless he's really putting the work in when the lights aren't on.

i don't know what the possibilities are for long runs of success with the second apron and all the injuries we see late in the season these days, but man is okc set up well for the foreseeable future with presti and sga.

[CobraCommander]

Perfectly said -

This question should be-

who is the better player today - easy answer - sga

Who is the most talented player - easy answer - Luka

Who has the greatest upside - unknown - we have no idea if Luka cares to Max out his potential & we don’t know if this is the best Sga will become- he could keep getting better like jokic did.

Who would you build your team around - most GMs would talk SGA because they would trust a 26 year old mvp that is in shape over a guy that’s been in the league 8 years with enormous talent but questionable work habits and nagging injury history

But we all agree that if we are lucky - Luka comes back in shape and locked in to do battle for the title next year -

Because it would be a shame to have a player like Luka never meet his full potential

agree 100%. i also hope the best version of Luka we see is ahead of us, and not behind us. Sadly, nba history is full of people who were so talented that they never really developed the professionalism and habits. lets hope Luka "gets it" and shows us how great he can be with an alignment of his prodigious talent and a nice dose of real professionalism. he's proven that he doesn't need to be kobe in terms of work ethic and "good" habits to be among the very best, but man, if he could just get his "bad" habits under some control, its scary to think what he could be.

my favorite thing about sga isn't how clever he can be on the floor, or even his historic level production. its that when the best player on a team is such a professional, it becomes a culture. its refreshing for me. i feel like sga is low-key doing the thing kobe did, and timmy d did, where he is embracing the real job of the #1 on a team: setting the tone for every player that walks in the door. he gets better every year, and there is no way that is happening unless he's really putting the work in when the lights aren't on.

i don't know what the possibilities are for long runs of success with the second apron and all the injuries we see late in the season these days, but man is okc set up well for the foreseeable future with presti and sga.

Completely agree- Sga leading as a professional and good guy vs Kobe ridiculed Jeremy Lin and Parker because they were not good enough is so toxic it should diminish his glory same with Jordan being a reputed jerk… but nothing like Kobe- sga doing it a different way.

[The Master]

Those two playoff runs were certainly impressive, but Pau not being in the top-75 is a crime. He had a better career, and higher peak, than a lot of the guys who made the cut.

That entire list (for both players and coaches) is a joke that isn't based on any sort of objective analysis.

Yeah, Pau is:

- 32nd in Win Shares,
- 33rd in Value Over Replacement,
- 19-10-3 on +5.0 BPM in both RS and PO in the 08-10 period,
- more All-Star Games or/and All-NBA or 1st/2nd team All-NBA selection than Thurmond, Wilkens, DeBusschere, McHale, Monroe, Unseld, Allen, McAdoo, Rodman, Walton, Worthy, Miller, Maravich - not saying he's a better player than all of them, but he has easily top75 resume, impact and career.

'No top75 player' is the laziest argument in the universe.

[DrModesty]

SGA has an brilliant mindset. Extremely hard working, with a growth mindset, a clear purpose and vision on how to get there. It is very methodical, with step by step improvement of skills, each being executed as the possibilities open before him by completing the previous steps. It is like he is playing Zelda and collecting the items to unlock new areas of the map as he goes.

He is backed up with a high level coach and front office who work with him in tandem and have a similar perspective. SGA, Diagneault and Presti form the spine of an elite organization. We see the players that come in to the Thunder fall in line to SGA's example and mindset because of his leadership. They speak glowingly of him as a person, player and leader. And as such they have all flourished under the leadership of the spine, with players blossoming every year.

I will take Jokic as an example. I think Jokic also has a very good mindset and is extremely driven for success. But I don't think Shai would let Murray get away with coming in to seasons out of shape. Definitely not more than once. Luka himself comes in to seasons out of shape. It is a totally different level of professionalism.

Something that is scary for the league is that Wembanyama comes across similar to Shai. But Shai has displayed very disciplined patience, while I feel like Viktor is anxious to win immediately given the expectations for him set by others and himself. That sort of behavior can undermine a situation (I feel like it was one of LeBrons shortcomings for example).

[doogie_hauser]

Haliburton's a better player than Luka these days #JustSayin

[ChumboChappati]

Neither did Aaron Gordon

Aaron Gordon was considered a number one option when he came to the nba - that’s not in debate

And the only year he was the best player on his own team was 2018 when Orlando won 25 games

ouch

[Yoshun]

I completely disagree with the whole idea Luka is lazy and unmotivated. I think he just had an injury-plagued season and a bad training staff for most of the season. I don't think it's a coincidence Dallas fired everyone.

That said, SGA was definitely the better player this season. He had an incredible year on both ends of the court and deserved his MVP. Does that mean he's the better player overall? That I'm not so sure about. You could make a pretty good argument Luka has been the better player until this year. We'll see next season.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

This SGA season is better than any season Luka had yes, Luka has been better for much longer, but seems like SGA is peaking higher, but only time will tell, but your premise is false and the opposite of reality.
Twice in his career Luka has been on elite defenses, the 1st time was with personnel that had no business being elite, teams don't need to hide Luka on defense, he showed he can be part of great defense and contribute to it.

I am not sure this Shai season is better than Luka's 24 season, actually.

[Mavrelous]

This SGA season is better than any season Luka had yes, Luka has been better for much longer, but seems like SGA is peaking higher, but only time will tell, but your premise is false and the opposite of reality.
Twice in his career Luka has been on elite defenses, the 1st time was with personnel that had no business being elite, teams don't need to hide Luka on defense, he showed he can be part of great defense and contribute to it.

I am not sure this Shai season is better than Luka's 24 season, actually.

Better EPM, BPM, team record, and looks like he's making the finals, pretty clear cut, what makes this uncertain?