It was a nice run, Jokic

[prime1time]

Jokic needs to win in the playoffs. The days of him putting up nice stats in regular season games and everyone fawning over him should be over.

As the years have gone by, I've come to accept that Lebron and KD were 100% right to leave the teams that drafted them and form superteams, even though I hated it at the time.

The average fan is completely shook by "ring culture." It has paralyzed their brains. They are so terrified to say anything positive about any player if it isn't backed up by "rangz", because the other lemmings will all gang up on them.

Jokic could leave the Nuggets and team up with Giannis, win a bunch of championships on easy mode, and you guys would all start saying what's been obvious for years: that Jokic is one the greatest to ever do it.

Thank God Jokic doesn't care what people like you think.

Of course Jokic shouldn't care what I think. But I don't even talk about rings with Jokic because he's clearly not a top 5 player. I talk about conference finals. If you're a top 15 player you should be leading your team to conference finals consistently. Now Championships are harder because maybe there's a top 5 or top 10 player in the league or in your conference. But to say that it's expecting too much from Jokic to make a conference finals is laughable. Here's the irony about Jokic. Jokic stands will claim he's one of the best centers ever but if you compare his defense to any other great big it's clearly the worst. Now his offense is clearly out of this world, but in the playoffs this dynamic breaks. Playoff basketball forces Jokic to do more on both ends and play longer minutes.

Look at that game 7 vs. the T-Wolves. He played 46+ minutes. Carried the offense. And was supposed to be the anchor for the defense. But he couldn't deliver. And they got sent home by a young Ant and Rudy Gobert. This is the reality with Jokic. The bigger the game. The more the Nuggets need to rely on his offense. The more minutes Jokic needs to play. And what's going to give is his ability to anchor the defense. Jokic is a center. Center's anchor defenses. But with Jokic you basically need to treat him like Steph and hide him.

Obviously we'll see, but if Wemby plays Jokic in the playoffs let's see what happens. If Wemby knocks Jokic out 4 or 5 years in a row. Even if somehow the Nuggets win this year. There's no way I'm taking Jokic over Wemby period.

And I love the new age basketball fan. The issue isn't Jokic's inability to lead his team. The issue is always with his teammates. A lot of players could have tried to play like Jokic. They didn't because it's inefficient to have one guy dominate the ball and do everything. As much as Jokic fans whine and complain and talk about Tristan Thompson the reality is that you have to hold their feet to the fire and talk about winning in the playoffs. Because if you don't we are comparing apples and oranges. Other great players did everything they could to win. They didn't do everything they could to put up nice stat lines.

In the regular season most games players move at a leisurely pace. Jokic can do his thing and just dominate. Passing, rebounding, scoring. Most efficient games we've seen. But playoff basketball is different. The intensity ratchets up. Scoring is harder. Defense is more intense. What passes for good enough defense by Jokic now needs to be even better. The energy exertion on each play is greater. And starters play longer minutes. All of this to say, what comes so easy to Jokic in the regular season doesn't come as easy anymore. If I had to pick a big to win a random regular season game I might take Jokic. But if I had to pick a big to win a Playoff series, there's no way I'm taking Jokic.

[Woodsanity]

As the years have gone by, I've come to accept that Lebron and KD were 100% right to leave the teams that drafted them and form superteams, even though I hated it at the time.

The average fan is completely shook by "ring culture." It has paralyzed their brains. They are so terrified to say anything positive about any player if it isn't backed up by "rangz", because the other lemmings will all gang up on them.

Jokic could leave the Nuggets and team up with Giannis, win a bunch of championships on easy mode, and you guys would all start saying what's been obvious for years: that Jokic is one the greatest to ever do it.

Thank God Jokic doesn't care what people like you think.

Of course Jokic shouldn't care what I think. But I don't even talk about rings with Jokic because he's clearly not a top 5 player. I talk about conference finals. If you're a top 15 player you should be leading your team to conference finals consistently. Now Championships are harder because maybe there's a top 5 or top 10 player in the league or in your conference. But to say that it's expecting too much from Jokic to make a conference finals is laughable. Here's the irony about Jokic. Jokic stands will claim he's one of the best centers ever but if you compare his defense to any other great big it's clearly the worst. Now his offense is clearly out of this world, but in the playoffs this dynamic breaks. Playoff basketball forces Jokic to do more on both ends and play longer minutes.

Look at that game 7 vs. the T-Wolves. He played 46+ minutes. Carried the offense. And was supposed to be the anchor for the defense. But he couldn't deliver. And they got sent home by a young Ant and Rudy Gobert. This is the reality with Jokic. The bigger the game. The more the Nuggets need to rely on his offense. The more minutes Jokic needs to play. And what's going to give is his ability to anchor the defense. Jokic is a center. Center's anchor defenses. But with Jokic you basically need to treat him like Steph and hide him.

Obviously we'll see, but if Wemby plays Jokic in the playoffs let's see what happens. If Wemby knocks Jokic out 4 or 5 years in a row. Even if somehow the Nuggets win this year. There's no way I'm taking Jokic over Wemby period.

And I love the new age basketball fan. The issue isn't Jokic's inability to lead his team. The issue is always with his teammates. A lot of players could have tried to play like Jokic. They didn't because it's inefficient to have one guy dominate the ball and do everything. As much as Jokic fans whine and complain and talk about Tristan Thompson the reality is that you have to hold their feet to the fire and talk about winning in the playoffs. Because if you don't we are comparing apples and oranges. Other great players did everything they could to win. They didn't do everything they could to put up nice stat lines.

In the regular season most games players move at a leisurely pace. Jokic can do his thing and just dominate. Passing, rebounding, scoring. Most efficient games we've seen. But playoff basketball is different. The intensity ratchets up. Scoring is harder. Defense is more intense. What passes for good enough defense by Jokic now needs to be even better. The energy exertion on each play is greater. And starters play longer minutes. All of this to say, what comes so easy to Jokic in the regular season doesn't come as easy anymore. If I had to pick a big to win a random regular season game I might take Jokic. But if I had to pick a big to win a Playoff series, there's no way I'm taking Jokic.

Jokic is a lot less ball dominant that a lot of superstars. Not sure what you are even waffling about.

[Alatan]

Of course Jokic shouldn't care what I think. But I don't even talk about rings with Jokic because he's clearly not a top 5 player. I talk about conference finals. If you're a top 15 player you should be leading your team to conference finals consistently. Now Championships are harder because maybe there's a top 5 or top 10 player in the league or in your conference. But to say that it's expecting too much from Jokic to make a conference finals is laughable. Here's the irony about Jokic. Jokic stands will claim he's one of the best centers ever but if you compare his defense to any other great big it's clearly the worst. Now his offense is clearly out of this world, but in the playoffs this dynamic breaks. Playoff basketball forces Jokic to do more on both ends and play longer minutes.

Look at that game 7 vs. the T-Wolves. He played 46+ minutes. Carried the offense. And was supposed to be the anchor for the defense. But he couldn't deliver. And they got sent home by a young Ant and Rudy Gobert. This is the reality with Jokic. The bigger the game. The more the Nuggets need to rely on his offense. The more minutes Jokic needs to play. And what's going to give is his ability to anchor the defense. Jokic is a center. Center's anchor defenses. But with Jokic you basically need to treat him like Steph and hide him.

Obviously we'll see, but if Wemby plays Jokic in the playoffs let's see what happens. If Wemby knocks Jokic out 4 or 5 years in a row. Even if somehow the Nuggets win this year. There's no way I'm taking Jokic over Wemby period.

And I love the new age basketball fan. The issue isn't Jokic's inability to lead his team. The issue is always with his teammates. A lot of players could have tried to play like Jokic. They didn't because it's inefficient to have one guy dominate the ball and do everything. As much as Jokic fans whine and complain and talk about Tristan Thompson the reality is that you have to hold their feet to the fire and talk about winning in the playoffs. Because if you don't we are comparing apples and oranges. Other great players did everything they could to win. They didn't do everything they could to put up nice stat lines.

In the regular season most games players move at a leisurely pace. Jokic can do his thing and just dominate. Passing, rebounding, scoring. Most efficient games we've seen. But playoff basketball is different. The intensity ratchets up. Scoring is harder. Defense is more intense. What passes for good enough defense by Jokic now needs to be even better. The energy exertion on each play is greater. And starters play longer minutes. All of this to say, what comes so easy to Jokic in the regular season doesn't come as easy anymore. If I had to pick a big to win a random regular season game I might take Jokic. But if I had to pick a big to win a Playoff series, there's no way I'm taking Jokic.

Jokic is a lot less ball dominant that a lot of superstars. Not sure what you are even waffling about.

Clearly doesnt watch Jokic but imagines how he puts up stats and then attacks that strawman.

[prime1time]

As the years have gone by, I've come to accept that Lebron and KD were 100% right to leave the teams that drafted them and form superteams, even though I hated it at the time.

The average fan is completely shook by "ring culture." It has paralyzed their brains. They are so terrified to say anything positive about any player if it isn't backed up by "rangz", because the other lemmings will all gang up on them.

Jokic could leave the Nuggets and team up with Giannis, win a bunch of championships on easy mode, and you guys would all start saying what's been obvious for years: that Jokic is one the greatest to ever do it.

Thank God Jokic doesn't care what people like you think.

Of course Jokic shouldn't care what I think. But I don't even talk about rings with Jokic because he's clearly not a top 5 player. I talk about conference finals. If you're a top 15 player you should be leading your team to conference finals consistently. Now Championships are harder because maybe there's a top 5 or top 10 player in the league or in your conference. But to say that it's expecting too much from Jokic to make a conference finals is laughable. Here's the irony about Jokic. Jokic stands will claim he's one of the best centers ever but if you compare his defense to any other great big it's clearly the worst. Now his offense is clearly out of this world, but in the playoffs this dynamic breaks. Playoff basketball forces Jokic to do more on both ends and play longer minutes.

Look at that game 7 vs. the T-Wolves. He played 46+ minutes. Carried the offense. And was supposed to be the anchor for the defense. But he couldn't deliver. And they got sent home by a young Ant and Rudy Gobert. This is the reality with Jokic. The bigger the game. The more the Nuggets need to rely on his offense. The more minutes Jokic needs to play. And what's going to give is his ability to anchor the defense. Jokic is a center. Center's anchor defenses. But with Jokic you basically need to treat him like Steph and hide him.

Obviously we'll see, but if Wemby plays Jokic in the playoffs let's see what happens. If Wemby knocks Jokic out 4 or 5 years in a row. Even if somehow the Nuggets win this year. There's no way I'm taking Jokic over Wemby period.

And I love the new age basketball fan. The issue isn't Jokic's inability to lead his team. The issue is always with his teammates. A lot of players could have tried to play like Jokic. They didn't because it's inefficient to have one guy dominate the ball and do everything. As much as Jokic fans whine and complain and talk about Tristan Thompson the reality is that you have to hold their feet to the fire and talk about winning in the playoffs. Because if you don't we are comparing apples and oranges. Other great players did everything they could to win. They didn't do everything they could to put up nice stat lines.

In the regular season most games players move at a leisurely pace. Jokic can do his thing and just dominate. Passing, rebounding, scoring. Most efficient games we've seen. But playoff basketball is different. The intensity ratchets up. Scoring is harder. Defense is more intense. What passes for good enough defense by Jokic now needs to be even better. The energy exertion on each play is greater. And starters play longer minutes. All of this to say, what comes so easy to Jokic in the regular season doesn't come as easy anymore. If I had to pick a big to win a random regular season game I might take Jokic. But if I had to pick a big to win a Playoff series, there's no way I'm taking Jokic.

Jokic fans want to talk about the supporting cast. It's not the supporting cast its him. His teammates know he's dog tired. All year long, when they needed a clutch basket they went to Jokic. All year long when they needed to get out of a rut they went to Jokic. All year long, when they needed a play they went to Jokic. But in that game 7 playing 46 minutes Jokic doesn't have the stamina to deliver down the stretch.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, these stat lines look really good in the regular season. Luka putting up insane stats. Giannis putting up insane stats. Jokic putting up insane stats. But the playoffs are about a team. That's why the pacers made it last year and took OKC to 7. These teams that have players putting up insane stat lines are building muscle memory that will lead to failure in the playoffs. Only way Jokic wins in the playoffs is if his competition gets injured.

Wemby on the other hand plays as part of a team. The entire season is a process of learning to play better as a team. When the playoffs come knocking, Spurs will have had 82 tune-up games and be ready to play. This is how basketball works. The way the West looks now, if Jokic doesn't make a conference finals this year, I don't think he'll make it again. This is the worse Wemby will be and OKC isn't going anywhere. Ultimately, Wemby is coming. This year, next year. It really doesn't matter. I expect the Spurs to dominate the Nuggets in the playoffs. Attack Jokic relentelessly, pressure him coming up the floor. Throw bodies at him. Tire him out. Attack the rim relentlessly. And eventually they'll break his will and with it the team. This is basketball.

Not the PER or the BPM or whatever other advanced stat that shows Jokic is the best everrrrr. Real basketball is a game of imposing your will physically on the opponents. Dominating your opponents not just on the court but mentally. This can only happen in the playoffs. NBA has 82 games. If you lose one who cares.

[prime1time]

Watch on YouTube

This is when I need Jokic. Game 7. Everything on the line. All the work and sweat and tears, all the film sessions, the plane flights, the big contracts it all comes down to this. Both teams everything on the line. Everyone in that arena thought that Jokic would take it home. He's the best player in the world. Make a play. Does he look like the best player in the world here? Does he look like a top 5 or top 10 player in the world here?

Watch on YouTube

Another game 7. Does he look like the best player in the world here? Yeah, putting up nice stat lines against a team that's 3-8 and completely dysfunctional is amazing. But dominate in the playoffs against a team that's fully scouted you. Knows everything you and your teammates like to do. Is 100% united. And going all out trying to win.

Bbbbut he won a finals. The best players in the league win in the playoffs year after year after year after year. They don't win one and turn into a pumpkin. They look like OKC. Win won and then continue dominating. NIkola Jokic the best regular season player in the game, and it's not close. But if you had to win one playoff game and could only choose active players are you really taking Jokic?

[Expoking]

Watch on YouTube

This is when I need Jokic. Game 7. Everything on the line. All the work and sweat and tears, all the film sessions, the plane flights, the big contracts it all comes down to this. Both teams everything on the line. Everyone in that arena thought that Jokic would take it home. He's the best player in the world. Make a play. Does he look like the best player in the world here? Does he look like a top 5 or top 10 player in the world here?

Watch on YouTube

Another game 7. Does he look like the best player in the world here? Yeah, putting up nice stat lines against a team that's 3-8 and completely dysfunctional is amazing. But dominate in the playoffs against a team that's fully scouted you. Knows everything you and your teammates like to do. Is 100% united. And going all out trying to win.

Bbbbut he won a finals. The best players in the league win in the playoffs year after year after year after year. They don't win one and turn into a pumpkin. They look like OKC. Win won and then continue dominating. NIkola Jokic the best regular season player in the game, and it's not close. But if you had to win one playoff game and could only choose active players are you really taking Jokic?

With all due respect, most of what you're talking about is complete nonsense. No one player ever wins a title on their own. You could show Lebron's playoff losses before he teamed with Dwade or Jordans losses before Pippen. The fact remains that most of the other players that occupy the top 10/15 have had superior team mates to Jokic. Remember he's never played with another all-star, all NBA or all defence team mate. Not to say his teammates suck because they obviously don't.
You might point to Jamal Murray and say he's a great second option, look at what he did in the bubble or in 2023. And that's exactly the point, when he plays well they get far in the playoffs because Jokic is mostly always great. When Jamal turns up, the Nuggets become truly formidable.

[HotRocks34]

Jokic isn't double teamed?

If Jokic were single teamed, he would annihilate the league.

The Clippers let "Jokic Stopper" Zubac defend Jokic by himself, Jokic scores 52 points in three quarters.

Lue post game:

[Genjuro]

It's always easy to hide behind the Robert Horry's and the Derek Fishers. But top 15 players in NBA history win in the playoffs and they do it consistently.

Malone had 6 Conference Finals.
Hakeem made 4
Duncan made 9
Shaq made 13
Lebron made 12
Garnett made 4

I'm not even talking about championships. What's the excuse for Jokic making only 2 conference finals? If he doesn't make another, and SGA makes 5 or 6 in a row, do you really think people are going to call this the "Jokic" era? Lol.

The excuse? Perhaps that his career is not over yet? At his age, Olajuwon only had one Conference Finals (and zero rings). Same as KG. Same as Malone.

Also, I think Shaq had 9, not 13.

[lobosloboslobos]

It's always easy to hide behind the Robert Horry's and the Derek Fishers. But top 15 players in NBA history win in the playoffs and they do it consistently.

Malone had 6 Conference Finals.
Hakeem made 4
Duncan made 9
Shaq made 13
Lebron made 12
Garnett made 4

I'm not even talking about championships. What's the excuse for Jokic making only 2 conference finals? If he doesn't make another, and SGA makes 5 or 6 in a row, do you really think people are going to call this the "Jokic" era? Lol.

Jokic is 30. has made 2 conference finals and won 1 title. never played with an HOFer or even an all-star.

-- Malone's conference finals: age 28, 30, 32, 33, 34, 40 (no titles, played alongside an all-time great
-- Garnett's conference finals: age 28, 31, 33, 36 (1 title age 33, won with 2 other HOFers)
-- Duncan played with multiple HOFs throughout his career and is an outlier but still, 5 of his 9 conference finals were age 31 and older
-- Lebron is the biggest ring chaser in history so whatever, played with probably 10-15 HOFers
-- Shaq had 9 conference finals by the age of 30. legend. played with Kobe and D-Wade though. can you imagine either of those guys in their primes with Jokic???

[Ssj16]

Best player on the planet still.

If he's the best player on the planet why doesn't he win more in the playoffs?

Only the true elites like Tristan Thompson, Richard Jefferson and Haslem can win more then 20 playoff games. It's unfair to compare Jokics skill level to Thompson.

You forgot the greatest to do it in Robert Horry.