The ROTY/Rookie Discussion Thread, Part III

[Young_Star11]

It will be Ben Simmons' award. Unfortunate for Mitchell ROY supporters that Simmons was a red-shirt rookie last season.

[Stribor]

With a playoff berth on the line today, Donovan Mitchell responded with this line:

28 points (9 of 18 and 3 of 7)
9 rebounds
8 assists
1 steal
1 blocked shot

We LOVE this guy in Utah!

Would I take Philly's 2nd year player? Absolutely. He's good too!

Sent from my [device_name] using [url]RealGM mobile app[/url]

You should love Mitchell. He is awesome.

He has had an amazing year...more than filling the void left by Hayward. It really is a shame that only one FIRST YEAR NBA PLAYER can win the Rookie of the Year award. In any other year it would be Mitchell in a landslide...but this isn’t any ordinary year.

Good luck in the playoffs.

I think in the last 10 years he would easily win in 7, Kyrie Irving year would be a tossup and only KD and KAT would get it in front of him. But this is serious, means this rookie class is sick, there are 2 guys (Ben and Don) with legitimate HOF pretensions and a bunch of guys one could expect to be all stars. I think Ben deserved it, but I LOVE Don's game and I love this kids. Amazing generation.

[QPR]

Mitchell would get the award over Durant pretty comfortably I'd have thought.

[Kabookalu]

I'm not totally sure if he would have won it over Tyreke Evans. The hype behind Evans his rookie year was insane. Every single night I would hear about some stat that included him, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and Oscar Robertson in some exclusive company of rookies who averaged so and so numbers. Some people had him pegged as a future HoFer because they were so shocked to see a rookie this good this early in their career.

With that said Mitchell also did his thing leading his team into the playoffs while Evans was on a lottery team, so that might effect voting. Though I can't emphasize enough how hyped up Tyreke Evans was.

[Stribor]

I'm not totally sure if he would have won it over Tyreke Evans. The hype behind Evans his rookie year was insane. Every single night I would hear about some stat that included him, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and Oscar Robertson in some exclusive company of rookies who averaged so and so numbers. Some people had him pegged as a future HoFer because they were so shocked to see a rookie this good this early in their career.

With that said Mitchell also did his thing leading his team into the playoffs while Evans was on a lottery team, so that might effect voting. Though I can't emphasize enough how hyped up Tyreke Evans was.

Yeah, you could include Evans in a toss up. Larger assists and rebounds on a slightly larger minutes but in a non-playoff team. Nevertheless, Don would win it certainly in 60% of the last 10 years with two tossups and two losses. This shows that he is really up there. This year Ben is generational and this is sad for Don (cause I really like him). I like Ben more though

[Stribor]

Mitchell would get the award over Durant pretty comfortably I'd have thought.

Not sure but I checked stats and yes this could also be a toss up, except if KD first year was heralded as defensive beast ( I do not remember). Box numbers are close for both of them ...

[yitur]

For the record my vote would go for Simmons. I just don't believe it is absurd for people to think its Mitchell or for him to get some votes. Mitchell has been doing some pretty special stuff not seen in years as well. Not many rookies lead their team in scoring and go to the playoffs, and Mitchell may do it for a team that's a 3 seed in the West. On a Jazz broadcast they posted the list of the 4 players who have done it (edit: Ok, only 4 of them had led a 45+ win team in scoring), and the other 4 were Wilt, KAJ, Bird, and David Robinson. That's pretty elite company there.

I was gonna say Melo did it as well but I think 45 win limit rules him out. He led his team to the playoffs but lost to a more hyped better stats guy, Lebron, in 2004. I think it's a similar situation but Simmons winning late in the season without Embiid turned it from 51/49 to 60/40.

[BloodNinja]

Mitchell is really really good.

[madskillz8]

I'm not totally sure if he would have won it over Tyreke Evans. The hype behind Evans his rookie year was insane. Every single night I would hear about some stat that included him, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and Oscar Robertson in some exclusive company of rookies who averaged so and so numbers. Some people had him pegged as a future HoFer because they were so shocked to see a rookie this good this early in their career.

With that said Mitchell also did his thing leading his team into the playoffs while Evans was on a lottery team, so that might effect voting. Though I can't emphasize enough how hyped up Tyreke Evans was.

Yeah, you could include Evans in a toss up. Larger assists and rebounds on a slightly larger minutes but in a non-playoff team. Nevertheless, Don would win it certainly in 60% of the last 10 years with two tossups and two losses. This shows that he is really up there. This year Ben is generational and this is sad for Don (cause I really like him). I like Ben more though

I think the difference of being on a playoff or lottery team is about the opportunities a player can get. Because it is often the case that if a player is drafted by a bad team he gets higher minutes and usage.

This year Mitchell has 29% usage which is even higher than Evans ever had during his career. Also Mitchell is drafted into a perfect situation for him: drafted by a relatively good team who needs a go-to scorer. It's not Evans' fault that being drafted into this team https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2010.html, rather than a good team who lacks of play-maker.

All in all, I think it is not that fair to say "Evans and Mitchell had similar rookie seasons but Evans was in a lottery team".

PS. not a big fan of advanced stats, but Win Shares of players: Evans 5.4 on 29 win team, Mitchell 5.0 on 51 win team.

[Madhouse]

It's not surprising to me that 2 21 year olds are doing this. Both are very polished already.

I see more potential in Simmons but DM could be a nice 25/5/6 guy in his prime.

[Kolkmania]

This is the time were rookies show extremely promising numbers due to facing tanking teams, however the length of the list is just enormous. Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum, Smith jr., Monk, Collins, Kennard and Anunoby had massive contributions last night, the league is in a good place.

[cl2117]

Jonh Collins is going to be a really good player. I think I may have jumped the gun when I said I hoped he could be an Al Horford type 3 point shooter (probably take him 8+ seasons to develop it like Al did), but in the meantime he's still going to be an impactful player. I was actually a little disappointed in his inability to rack up more boards given who he was going against, but he looked the part all night long.

Jayson Tatum is a really special player. He's going to score 20+ points a night at some point on his rookie deal. His jumper is so smooth, his ability to take it to the rack is underrated and his defense is strong night in and night out. I had originally had him ranked as like the 5th/6th best player of the draft class before the draft and kind of wanted the C's to take Josh Jackson, but I came around to Tatum pre-draft because he seemed like he could shoot. I didn't want another Jaylen Brown who had/has to really work on improving that aspect of his game. I just wanted someone polished. Enter Jayson Tatum and goddamn. That kid is polished. If I'm Stevens Tatum is the #1 option to take the final shot in the playoffs.

Small sample-size theatre here, but 2 way contract Jabari Bird (56th pick by the C's out of Cal) has gotten 20+ minutes for 2 games in a row while the C's rest players (and play tanking squads) and he's stood out big time in both games. He's scored mostly on put backs and sneaky cuts along the baseline, but he's fired a couple 3's with confidence, had a couple emphatic dunks and played some very energetic defense.

Guys on the C's board are clamoring for them to cut Adbel Nader and sign this kid to a guaranteed deal so he can play in the playoffs already. I'm not going that far (mostly because I wouldn't give up a year of control when you know you're not winning anything meaningful this year), but it's saying something that he had that big of an impression. 2 games averaging 23 mins and 12/4. Guys like this who are REALLY late 2nd rounders or even better undrafted guys are like found money. It's great to see them play well.

[rygar]

My All Rookie Teams

1st:
Simmons
Mitchell
Kuzma
Markkanen
Smith Jr.

2nd
Tatum
Josh Jackson
Lonzo
Fox
Bogdanovic

[Sixersftw]

Mitchell would get the award over Durant pretty comfortably I'd have thought.

Not sure but I checked stats and yes this could also be a toss up, except if KD first year was heralded as defensive beast ( I do not remember). Box numbers are close for both of them ...

He was a liability. It was his most pronounced weakness (besides his coach playing him out of position).

[bebopdeluxe]

It will be Ben Simmons' award. Unfortunate for Mitchell ROY supporters that Simmons was a red-shirt rookie last season.

We really can go around and around with this. Did Simmons benefit from being around the team - video study, off-court coaching/mentoring, understanding what it is like to live on your own, etc..? Of course.

But:

1) He did not travel with the team;

2) He had ZERO on-court practice time with the team.

This second point is VERY important when it comes to calling Simmons' year a "red-shirt" year. Using, for example, one of the most recent high-profile redshirts - NCAA Finals MOP Donte DiVincenzo...he was red-shirted in 2016...but he was able to come back by the end of the season and practice with the team (he actually was Buddy Hield for the "scout" tean in Final Four prep), travel with the team...things that Simmons did not do.

And let us also keep in mind that Mitchell did not spend the 2016-17 season playing for Delaware State. He spent that season as part of one of this highest-profile programs in the country, being coached by a guy in the Hall of Fame. Louisville 1) plays in one of the top 2-3 conferences in the nation; 2) has (I would guess) state of the art practice and training facilities, and - as was frequently pointed out before the 2016 draft (where LSU's failure to make the tournament was a key argument behind the Ingram-for-#1 pick proponents), 3) Mitchell had the opportunity to play in the NCAA tournament as the lead dog - which certainly did not hurt the kid's development.

Thanks goodness this debate is almost over.

[cl2117]

My All Rookie Teams

1st:
Simmons
Mitchell
Kuzma
Markkanen
Smith Jr.

2nd
Tatum
Josh Jackson
Lonzo
Fox
Bogdanovic

DSJ is out of place on the first team:15/5/4 on .395/.313

Tatum is averaging 14/5 on .478 and .431. He's got to be on that 1st team squad.

I agree on the others for first team though. I think the 2nd team is where the real discussion is. Lots of guys coming on strong to finish the season.

[jg77]

I'd like to see Mitchell and Simmons as co-ROTY.

[kwajo]

I'd like to see Mitchell and Simmons as co-ROTY.

Wouldn't be the first time, Elton Brand and Steve "Vancouver's Most Wanted" Francis won co-ROY a few years ago, as did Grant Hill and Jason Kidd.

[commentatorer]

In my opinion, they should give Rookie Of The Year to whoever the best player is among the rookies.
Some people in the media are talking like there is some other criteria.
McGrady thinks Ben Simmons is not eligible because he's from the previous year's draft class....

[Jazz Dog]

I am a huge supporter of Donovan Mitchell but Ben Simmons should win the award. I think it'll be closer then most of us think cause quite a few voters will punish Ben for missing last year.

Either way Philly and Utah both have great young impact players that will bring many wins and highlights to their teams.

Congrats to both.

Also Tatum needs to be first team as well.