Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good.

DanielBoone · Post #301 » by **DanielBoone** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:49 am

Bergy wrote:hey, remember the last time arenas shot over 45%?

hey remember when fg% was a good efficiency stat? me neither. try again

jax98 · Post #302 » by **jax98** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:52 am

blueNorange wrote:eh i just don't see 'true' point guard in him ... to me a point guard is a guy who gets teammates easy and uncontested shots. not driving and kicking it out ... a monkey could do that as well as you and i. i pass the ball and someone makes a jumpshot, i get an assist.

rose had a 2.2 a/t ratio this past year which is mediocre

His supporting cast was from an offensive standpoint also mediocre. If that, even. The Bulls had no post presence, no true outside shooter and no one who could create their own shot. Rose was forced into a scoring role, and he still actively passed the ball, lured the defense in, and dished it off. Constantly. It got to the point where Bulls fans (and the Bulls also) said 'screw it. Derrick, score the damn ball'.

Also, if I may add, if you don't see the 'true' in him, I suggest you watch him a lot closer next season or go back to last and re-watch some games. It's fairly obvious in the way he appraoches the game, how he sets things up and how frequently he looks for others.

blueNorange · Post #303 » by **blueNorange** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:57 am

i will, i'm a huge derrick rose fan(still am) but i've come to realize that he's more of a scoring guard than a point guard -- he was more passive at memphis!

jax98 · Post #304 » by **jax98** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 1:02 am

blueNorange wrote:i will, i'm a huge derrick rose fan(still am) but i've come to realize that he's more of a scoring guard than a point guard -- he was more passive at memphis!

With Boozer, Brewer and Korver in town, I will make a bet with you that Derrick will tone down his shooting OR get the same, or improved, numbers but under better efficiency. The role he played last year was forced upon him out of necessity.

Jvaughn · Post #305 » by **Jvaughn** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 1:36 am

Morten Jensen wrote:
blueNorange wrote:i will, i'm a huge derrick rose fan(still am) but i've come to realize that he's more of a scoring guard than a point guard -- he was more passive at memphis!

With Boozer, Brewer and Korver in town, I will make a bet with you that Derrick will tone down his shooting OR get the same, or improved, numbers but under better efficiency. The role he played last year was forced upon him out of necessity.

+1

I've offered that sig bet numerous times on here, and no one has bit yet. If people are so convinced he doesn't have that capabiliy, why am I getting no takers? I would've loved to see someone outside of CP3, Nash, or Deron get more APG with the same or better record than Rose got last year with the Bulls.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #306 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 1:58 am

If realgm didn't consider Arenas a PG then Rose shouldn't be considered one. Because Arenas is a better playmaker and passer than Rose. I'm a Rose fan and I think both him and Arenas were/are pg's.
Rose has a lot of potential but he isn't better than Rondo or Nash right now.

Legendary 33 · Post #307 » by **Legendary 33** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 2:04 am

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:If realgm didn't consider Arenas a PG then Rose shouldn't be considered one. Because Arenas is a better playmaker and passer than Rose. I'm a Rose fan and I think both him and Arenas were/are pg's.
Rose has a lot of potential but he isn't better than Rondo or Nash right now.

That's really not fair at all. Arenas will actually play shooting guard next season next to Wall, Rose will be the PG. Arenas has never been devoid of talent (an all-star Jamison in his prime and Butler) yet Rose had Hinrich and his <.510 TS% next to him. Do you really think Rose will only average 6 assists a game next season, with all the help he has now?

Post #308 » by **kingkirk** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 2:16 am

Morten, Sham, Leg, dont waste your time with these clowns. Rose is going to have a serious year this year. Haters can say what they want. Use your stats if you want. But did you know Rose's 'stats' go up come playoff time. Not bad having a clutch 21 yr old PG. But you can keep talking if you want.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #309 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 2:43 am

Legendary 33 wrote:
TheKingOfVa360 wrote:If realgm didn't consider Arenas a PG then Rose shouldn't be considered one. Because Arenas is a better playmaker and passer than Rose. I'm a Rose fan and I think both him and Arenas were/are pg's.
Rose has a lot of potential but he isn't better than Rondo or Nash right now.

That's really not fair at all. Arenas will actually play shooting guard next season next to Wall, Rose will be the PG. Arenas has never been devoid of talent (an all-star Jamison in his prime and Butler) yet Rose had Hinrich and his <.510 TS% next to him. Do you really think Rose will only average 6 assists a game next season, with all the help he has now?

I'm a big Rose fan, I think you misread my post. I trying to prove that Rose is a PG

Legendary 33 · Post #310 » by **Legendary 33** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 2:52 am

ohh ok gotcha, my bad.

Heatmagic84 · Post #311 » by **Heatmagic84** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 2:54 am

Rose is very good. I don't see why people would argue this if you actually watched him play in the playoffs the last couple years.

I was a big doubter but he proved me wrong during that Celtics series. Absolutely amazing for a young guy to take his play to another level when it matters.

He deserves a lot of praise.

bullsnewdynasty · Post #312 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 3:00 am

blueNorange wrote:eh i just don't see 'true' point guard in him ... to me a point guard is a guy who gets teammates easy and uncontested shots. not driving and kicking it out ... a monkey could do that as well as you and i. i pass the ball and someone makes a jumpshot, i get an assist.

rose had a 2.2 a/t ratio this past year which is mediocre

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken **** - no post play or 3 point shooters.

blueNorange · Post #313 » by **blueNorange** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 3:01 am

just so we're clear i could care less about assists ... to me assist to turnover ratio is more important when determining a point guard.

rose can have 9 assists but if he has 5 turnovers with it then that's not good at all.

stacey_is_king · Post #314 » by **stacey_is_king** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 3:02 am

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:If realgm didn't consider Arenas a PG then Rose shouldn't be considered one. Because Arenas is a better playmaker and passer than Rose. I'm a Rose fan and I think both him and Arenas were/are pg's.
Rose has a lot of potential but he isn't better than Rondo or Nash right now.

I don't think he was a better passer/playmaker, but your point is true.

It looks like if you're good at scoring, it means you can't be a PG.

smez86 · Post #315 » by **smez86** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 3:10 am

PG's are usually as good as their big men when it comes to distribution. The last two years, Rose had an offensively-green Noah, a rookie, rail-thin Gibson, and an over the hill Brad Miller who hasn't dunked in years. Seriously, there were games I went to last year where Rose would be relegated to dishing to a wide open Chris Richard who would promptly airball a layup.

Legendary 33 · Post #316 » by **Legendary 33** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 3:12 am

This is the first year Rose can dish to a big man that can score more than 10 points a game.

I can't wait!

Godzilla039 · Post #317 » by **Godzilla039** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 3:34 am

He'll quiet the skeptics this year.

IllinoisReppa20 · Post #318 » by **IllinoisReppa20** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 4:00 am

^^ i believe d rose will do way better this year with an actual post presence and a legit 3 point shooter too , over under 7 apg im going over, but wat do i know .. i still piss in the shower

Jvaughn · Post #319 » by **Jvaughn** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 5:29 am

Legendary has asked a few times and I know I've asked on occassion to, but no one has answered. So I will ask again: What is the definition of a true PG? Because there seems to be some gray area that im missing. I have a few things I need from my "true PG":

1. Handles majority of ball handling
2. Sets his teammates up for easy baskets (no matter how it's done)
3. Does what it takes to win

Rose did and does all of that. Just because he doesn't dish to people the way you want him to, doesn't make him any less of a PG. Just makes him a PG that you don't like.

Yes Rose scored a lot last year. Question: who would've have done it if he didn't? Last years team was setup to be players in FA. Because of this reason we traded away some good scorers and weapons for Rose and in return we got mediocre expiring contracts. Rose did what it took to win. When the team needed him to score, he did so. When it was better for him to dish, he did that. That just makes him a good player. There's no negative in that.

lukekarts · Post #320 » by **lukekarts** » Tue Aug 3, 2010 8:26 am

BULLSFAN_1 wrote:
lukekarts wrote:If you compare the Bucks to the Bulls, Milwaukee only had the 'on paper' advantage at C last season, yet they outperformed the Bulls and finished with the better record.

Ever heard of injuries?

Yeah. If I recall correctly, Milwaukee's only actual front court player, Bogut, missed the final run in of 13 games, plus the playoffs. Dan Gadzuric and Mbah a Moute as a starting front court for 13 games? Scary. If I remember correctly, Michael Redd sat out the whole season too. The Bucks won more games than they lost in that period, with Jennings leading the team. Fair comparison, no?

ChiCitySPORTS#1 wrote:
lukekarts wrote:I don't think he has more of an impact on the game than a guy like Brandon Jennings though, if you compare the Bucks to the Bulls, Milwaukee only had the 'on paper' advantage at C last season, yet they outperformed the Bulls and finished with the better record.

The Bulls had several players out with injuries. Which included a 10 game losing streak which saw Rose Deng and Noah all out for the final stretch of the season.

See above.

Sorry to be a bit late with the replies here, but he has done nothing to put himself on a tier above Rondo, Westbrook or Jennings yet.

If he learns to defend, then maybe he will.