Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet

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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#301 » by cpower » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:16 pm

HotrodBeaubois wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:

Dallas isn't asking Parsons to carry them anywhere . They are asking Dirk / Parsons / Ellis / Chandler too and I think he fits right in . And he has tons of untapped potential that couldn't be realized playing with Harden and NO COACH


Harden made Chandler a better player. Harden was the best distributor on the Rockets last year and led all two guards with over 6 assists a game. Maybe McHale was holding Chandler back defensively but Chandler benefited from playing in the Rockets fast tempo offense. Chandler won't be getting much better looks in Dallas than he did in Houston. A ton of untapped potential for a four year college player in his fourth year in the league is doubtful. It's possible but history says that Chandler is likely to stay close to the player he already is.



You don't think Ellis can make Parsons that same player .Ellis was the best distributor on the Mavs last year and was 2nd only to Harden Ellis actually Per 48 Min trailed Harden by 0.2 Per 48 Min while also turning it over less . Not to mention those Assist probably go up quite a bit when Ellis has Parsons .470 FG% .370 3P% to pass to instead of Marion .482 FG% .358 3P% ( don't let the higher FG% fool you because most of those were un assisted put backs probably from missing his own awkward shot ) Not to mention Parsons will also be playing with the best Stretch 4 in the game Dirk who draws tons of attention so Parsons will be getting wide open looks all game long

Ellis and Parsons will look alot better than Harden and Parsons, Ellis is a lesser ball hog and he starts to move the ball around under RC.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#302 » by gmoney411 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:19 pm

HotrodBeaubois wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:

Dallas isn't asking Parsons to carry them anywhere . They are asking Dirk / Parsons / Ellis / Chandler too and I think he fits right in . And he has tons of untapped potential that couldn't be realized playing with Harden and NO COACH


Harden made Chandler a better player. Harden was the best distributor on the Rockets last year and led all two guards with over 6 assists a game. Maybe McHale was holding Chandler back defensively but Chandler benefited from playing in the Rockets fast tempo offense. Chandler won't be getting much better looks in Dallas than he did in Houston. A ton of untapped potential for a four year college player in his fourth year in the league is doubtful. It's possible but history says that Chandler is likely to stay close to the player he already is.



You don't think Ellis can make Parsons that same player .Ellis was the best distributor on the Mavs last year and was 2nd only to Harden Ellis actually Per 48 Min trailed Harden by 0.2 Per 48 Min while also turning it over less . Not to mention those Assist probably go up quite a bit when Ellis has Parsons .470 FG% .370 3P% to pass to instead of Marion .482 FG% .358 3P% ( don't let the higher FG% fool you because most of those were un assisted put backs probably from missing his own awkward shot ) Not to mention Parsons will also be playing with the best Stretch 4 in the game Dirk who draws tons of attention so Parsons will be getting wide open looks all game long


Sure Ellis might be able to make him that same player. I'm not arguing that Chandler can't be the same player he was in Houston. My doubt comes in when people start talking about Chandler being the 1st or 2nd option on a championship team and that is what you are looking for when you pay a guy $15MM that doesn't play great defense. The Mavs offense is a great fit for Chandler and I think he will be a great glue/guy jack of all trades like he was in Houston but I think Dallas and Houston would be better off spending $8MM on Ariza and then using the extra $6-7MM on cap space to fill other needs. Chandler will make the Mavericks a better team but not as good of a team as they could have been if they had built actual depth.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#303 » by Freefloater » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:52 pm

East Bay Sports wrote:Morey is an idiot, though he did get **** on by Bosh a bit. I never understood why they would not pick up Parsons' option.. now they suddenly want to try and deal for Rondo or Love, when Parsons on a $900,000 contract would have been their best asset by a mile.

lol, good going Morey.


idiot doesnt land you 2 superstars 2 offseasons in a row...leting parsons is probably part of howard deal...cause they have the same agent...

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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#304 » by Optimus_Steel » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Freefloater wrote:
East Bay Sports wrote:Morey is an idiot, though he did get **** on by Bosh a bit. I never understood why they would not pick up Parsons' option.. now they suddenly want to try and deal for Rondo or Love, when Parsons on a $900,000 contract would have been their best asset by a mile.

lol, good going Morey.


idiot doesnt land you 2 superstars 2 offseasons in a row...leting parsons is probably part of howard deal...cause they have the same agent...

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So now we are going to make excuses for Parsons option being declined? Lol. Please keep on the spin.

He was due to make $900,000 next year. The amount of production for that type of salary is astronomical. Yet he out thought himself and declined the option thinking he could resing him cheap being restricted. He miscalculated badly. Even if they would of signed Melo or Bosh it still would have been a poor decision. I dont care what the situation was, that is a straight up dumb decision by Morey.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#305 » by TaylorMonkey » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:12 pm

ocelot17 wrote:Morey on the radio this morning: "The reality is, to win a title, you have to be the team who finds Chandler Parsons... not the team that pays Chandler Parsons a max contract..." Shots fired lol.

"The structure of Chandlers contract was virtually impossible to be tradeable"



"We have the ability to make the trades that got us james harden"

It was a very tough decision but ultimately the right one.

To win a title you have to be the team that keeps Chandler, preferably at rookie scale, while signing additional talent-- not the team that gets cute and gives him and two other players away for pretty much nothing.

Yes, Chandler at the max would be an overpay. But saying letting him go was the right decision is like sticking your hand in the garbage disposal, letting gangrene set in, and then congratulating yourself for deciding to amputate.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#306 » by SuperCoolMayo » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:23 pm

Was Morey supposed to keep Parsons? He's not worth the max
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#307 » by Optimus_Steel » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:29 pm

TaylorMonkey wrote:
ocelot17 wrote:Morey on the radio this morning: "The reality is, to win a title, you have to be the team who finds Chandler Parsons... not the team that pays Chandler Parsons a max contract..." Shots fired lol.

"The structure of Chandlers contract was virtually impossible to be tradeable"



"We have the ability to make the trades that got us james harden"

It was a very tough decision but ultimately the right one.

To win a title you have to be the team that keeps Chandler, preferably at rookie scale, while signing additional talent-- not the team that gets cute and gives him and two other players away for pretty much nothing.

Yes, Chandler at the max would be an overpay. But saying letting him go was the right decision is like sticking your hand in the garbage disposal, letting gangrene set in, and then congratulating yourself for deciding to amputate.



Lmaooooo pretty much.

Its hilarious people and Morey himself saying that he wasent worth the match but Parsons shouldn't have been a FA to begin with.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#308 » by bigben998 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:31 pm

HotrodBeaubois wrote:
bigben998 wrote:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:

Yea I think the Chandlers have put us back into legitimate contention


Chandler is a very good player but I really don't get the amount of love that he is getting. He is an upgrade but he is not going to make the Mavs contenders or anything just like he didn't make the Rockets contenders. I have watched every single game that he has played as a Rocket. Up until free agency, he was talked about as not being good enough to be the 3rd star on the Rockets. I think people are getting their hopes up a little too much. Way too much money for him. I guess that is what had to be done though. I will say that he is a good team player and is a good locker room guy. He did have an issue with going cold for many games in a row and he has back issues that get to him every once in a while. I wish him the best and I am happy he got paid though. Dallas ladies will love him. I am sad that Houston lost him but no way should he be making $15 mil a year.



Let me get this straight I said THE CHANDLERS plural meaning Chandler Parsons + Tyson Chandler with Ellis / Dirk puts Dallas back into contention ..Don't get me wrong Dallas still has a little work to do like possibly upgrading Felton and maybe Wright .. But Dallas is right there and if they stay healthy will be making some serious noise in the playoffs .. Dallas is much better now than they were 2 months ago .


Agreed that Dallas will be better this year. I didn't mention Tyson because I agree that that was a good move. Parson's was a 3rd star on the Rockets this year and that did not get them anywhere. I know a lot of that was on Harden though. He would be a great 4th option on a team though. If you guys can get an elite pg somehow, then you would be pretty scary. I honestly thought you guys would upgrade by signing Deng or Ariza originally but it will be interesting to see how this plays out now that he has to live up to his contract.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#309 » by Pan Jia Yuan » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:44 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/464512962997129216[/tweet]
I've come to the conclusion that most folks don't really care that you broke one of the rules... they just enjoy telling you that you broke it.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#310 » by JasonStern » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:10 pm

gmoney411 wrote:The Rockets got an $8.3MM trade exception for the Lin trade and got what will likely be a lottery pick from NO in the Asik deal.


honestly, the pick used to dump Lin has almost the same chances of being a lottery pick as the one from Nawlins.


HotrodBeaubois wrote:
jmomcc wrote:Chandler could make you guys legitimate threats again.


Yea I think the Chandlers have put us back into legitimate contention


no, but having a head coach as great as Carlisle does. that's something that the Rockets, sticking with McHale, don't seem to get.

that's all Morey had to do this off-season to ensure Houston was a top 4 seed in the west - replace McHale with a competent coach and then don't do anything. leave the roster alone. go play golf or something while collecting million dollar checks.


gmoney411 wrote:People have lost perspective. Chandler probably isn't a better player than guys like Deng, Batum, and Hayward. He's a solid rotation player but he isn't carrying you anywhere unless his game takes huge leaps forward and that rarely happens for a four year college player in his fourth year in the league. You don't pay $15MM for a guy that isn't great on either side of the ball.


ignoring the fact that Parsons could have been retained for ~$900k:

Deng - $10 million/season
Batum - $12 million/season
Hayward - $16 million/season

while $15 million/season is high, it's really only overpaying by about $3 million/season. and while Ariza at $8 million/season is a better value, he isn't a better player. to put it in perspective, ignoring the minimum salary requirement in the CBA, a team could probably sign the d-league all-star team for $15 million. that would be the best value, but value doesn't translate into wins. talent does, and starters play a majority of the minutes in the NBA.


East Bay Sports wrote:now they suddenly want to try and deal for Rondo or Love


with what assets? Morey would need to get a Chandler TPE just to absorb either contract. Minnesota and Boston aren't trading either in order to dump salary. the Nawlins pick and any future Rocket 1sts are middling assets that other teams can easily outbid. their best shot at a trade would be to take on an overpaid player like Josh Smith, but if they were willing to do that, they might as well have jut matched the Parsons contract.


gmoney411 wrote:The Rockets will be a top 5 seed this year.


did I miss an announcement that Houston now plays in the east...?
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#311 » by Left Side Drive » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:27 pm

Pan Jia Yuan wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/464512962997129216[/tweet]

No way was losing Parsons part of his "master plan." :lol:
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#312 » by gmoney411 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:38 pm

JasonStern wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:The Rockets got an $8.3MM trade exception for the Lin trade and got what will likely be a lottery pick from NO in the Asik deal.


honestly, the pick used to dump Lin has almost the same chances of being a lottery pick as the one from Nawlins.


Only in fantasy land. The Rockets still have two star players and are going to be a playoff team.


JasonStern wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:People have lost perspective. Chandler probably isn't a better player than guys like Deng, Batum, and Hayward. He's a solid rotation player but he isn't carrying you anywhere unless his game takes huge leaps forward and that rarely happens for a four year college player in his fourth year in the league. You don't pay $15MM for a guy that isn't great on either side of the ball.


ignoring the fact that Parsons could have been retained for ~$900k:

Deng - $10 million/season
Batum - $12 million/season
Hayward - $16 million/season

while $15 million/season is high, it's really only overpaying by about $3 million/season. and while Ariza at $8 million/season is a better value, he isn't a better player. to put it in perspective, ignoring the minimum salary requirement in the CBA, a team could probably sign the d-league all-star team for $15 million. that would be the best value, but value doesn't translate into wins. talent does, and starters play a majority of the minutes in the NBA.


Nobody is ignoring that. The reason everybody is saying that Morey messed up is because he didn't pick up the option. I don't think very many people actually think that Chandler at $15MM is an overpay.


JasonStern wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:The Rockets will be a top 5 seed this year.


did I miss an announcement that Houston now plays in the east...?


Nope but you apparently missed the fact that the Rockets had a better winning percentage without Asik playing last year. Asik moaned and complained for a majority of last season and was not a big contributor to the team. He missed half the season and the Rockets were just fine without him.

Lin was an average 6th man that the Rockets can replace with the MLE or LLE.

And as I've said before, Ariza is a better fit for the Rockets team as constructed because they were in desperate need of a peremiter defense.

Everybody wants to just look at the Rockets losing players and say they have lost so much without really looking at what those players brought to the team. Chandler was the only major loss that had a very positive impact on the Rockets regular season success last year and they replaced him with a player that is likely a better fit. The Rockets were the youngest team in the playoffs last year and are going to get better just from experience alone. People thinking that they are going to barely squeak into the playoffs or not make them at all are just reading headlines and not looking at the actual facts. Morey will fill out the roster with the MLE and/or LLE and other signings.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#313 » by JasonStern » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:33 pm

gmoney411 wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:The Rockets got an $8.3MM trade exception for the Lin trade and got what will likely be a lottery pick from NO in the Asik deal.


honestly, the pick used to dump Lin has almost the same chances of being a lottery pick as the one from Nawlins.


Only in fantasy land. The Rockets still have two star players and are going to be a playoff team.


???/Beverly/Canaan
Harden/???/Daniels
Ariza/???/???
???/Jones/Motiejunas
Howard/???/???
coach: McHale

am I missing anyone? if not, then as constructed, I'm having a hard time seeing it. not in the west, at least. maybe 7th or 8th seed if everyone remains healthy.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#314 » by dice » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:36 pm

SuperCoolMayo wrote:Was Morey supposed to keep Parsons? He's not worth the max

absolutely not. that was the smart thing morey did: not matching. but declining his 1 mil option for next year was goddamn stupid
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#315 » by gmoney411 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:45 pm

JasonStern wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
honestly, the pick used to dump Lin has almost the same chances of being a lottery pick as the one from Nawlins.


Only in fantasy land. The Rockets still have two star players and are going to be a playoff team.


???/Beverly/Canaan
Harden/???/Daniels
Ariza/???/???
???/Jones/Motiejunas
Howard/???/???
coach: McHale

am I missing anyone? if not, then as constructed, I'm having a hard time seeing it. not in the west, at least. maybe 7th or 8th seed if everyone remains healthy.


What you are missing is that they won 54 games with basically the same core last year.

13-14
Starters - Bev, Harden, Parsons, Jones, Howard
Bench - Lin, DMo, Casspi, Garcia

14-15
Starters - Bev, Harden, Ariza, Jones, Howard
Bench - DMo, Canaan, Daniels, Johnson

The Rockets were a starting lineup led team last year and if they add nobody else they will be the same this year. Asik is a really good player and would have been great for the Rockets last year but he didn't want to come off the bench and was either hurt or not trying when he did. He was not a big contributor for the team and they actually won at a higher percentage without him.

If the Rockets can add rotation players with their exceptions they will be in basically the same situation they were last year plus increased chemistry because Bev and Jones will be second year starters and Howard and Harden will be more comfortable with one another. If they make really good use of their exceptions they can be even better than they were last year. The problem is that in such a tough west they can't just get a little better to win in the playoffs. They will be just fine in the regular season though just like they were last year.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#316 » by baki » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:57 pm

I seem to be seeing a pattern here:

gmoney411 wrote:What Asik and Lin gave the Rockets last year during the regular season is easily replaceable.


gmoney411 wrote:Lin was an average 6th man that the Rockets can replace with the MLE or LLE.


gmoney411 wrote:2. Asik and Lin weren't huge contributors for the Rockets last year. Asik only played in half of the games and sulked for half of those games. Lin was an inconsistent bench player whose production can easily be replaced.


gmoney411 wrote:Everybody wants to just look at the Rockets losing players and say they have lost so much without really looking at what those players brought to the team.

Chandler was the only major loss that had a very positive impact on the Rockets regular season success last year and they replaced him with a player that is likely a better fit.


This seems like a dish at Lin and Asik to me, what were they at Houston? Chopped liver? Seems like its not just Morey treating players like commodity, some of their fans do it too :roll:

When Lin and Asik came onto the team the Rockets improved by 12 games and became much more solid as a defensive team compared to the previous team that had Parsons, 3rd year Dragic, Courtney Lee, Lowry, Martin, Morris, Patterson, Scola, Dalembert, Boykins, Budinger, Camby.

In 2013-2014, Houston's defense improved slightly because of Howard, but the increase in offensive production was because Lin's move to the bench boosted the bench scoring when there was literally no big time scorers there at all. We're looking at guys like Berverley, DMO, Garcia, Casspi, Brooks, Asik and scrubs like Hamilton, Canaan, Brewer, Covington and Daniels. And here you are thinking that these scrubs are going to help us get a 50 game win?

Lin averaged 12.5 points per game in just 28.9 minutes coming in and out of the game irregularly in McHale revolving door game plan, while still achieving a triple double off the bench. None of the bench guys could even come close to what Lin did for Houston.

The worst thing though about your Lin drubbing, is that you failed to see that the Rockets replaced Lin with Beverley, the bench point guard who ISN'T EVEN CLOSE to Lin's level in terms of scoring and playmaking.

The only reason why the Rockets made this move was to boost the bench scoring since Beverley was never going to be that guy. This is why Beverley is the lowest minutes-played starter on the team because his job was only to play defense and take 3 pointer shots, he simply isn't that good to be in the entire game for his scoring or playmaking.

Nope but you apparently missed the fact that the Rockets had a better winning percentage without Asik playing last year. Asik moaned and complained for a majority of last season and was not a big contributor to the team. He missed half the season and the Rockets were just fine without him.


gmoney411 wrote: Asik is a really good player and would have been great for the Rockets last year but he didn't want to come off the bench and was either hurt or not trying when he did. He was not a big contributor for the team and they actually won at a higher percentage without him.


Classic Clutchfan logic :roll:

The Rockets won 6 games and lost 3 games without Harden, they won 3 games and lost 2 games when he plays under 30 minutes.

In the 2012-2013 season the Rockets won 2 games and lost 2 games without Harden.

I think we can do without Harden as well.

Rockets also made the playoffs without Howard and with an injured Lin, so we can do without Howard as well. :roll:


Asik played hard for Houston in his first year, had more total rebounds that year than Dwight did in 2014. Was not asked to be playmaker but nobody would mistaken Dwight of being one either. Asik was expecting to be THE center for Houston but had to make way for Howard, just as Lin was expecting to be THE point guard but had to make way for ISO shooting guard Harden. I think anybody would have been slighted, Lowry did, Dragic did and now they're on better teams. Well guess what, Lin and Asik will now have better careers with their new teams :lol:

gmoney411 wrote:If the Rockets can add a rotation player or two and/or get production out of a young guy like Canaan, Nick Johnson, or Daniels they will be a better team.


You mean our scrubs? :lol: :lol:  Keep dreaming.

gmoney411 wrote:And as I've said before, Ariza is a better fit for the Rockets team as constructed because they were in desperate need of a peremiter defense.


Translation: We paid someone to cover Harden's lousy defense because nobody else was willing to do it and Beverley could only play defense in limited minutes.

What you are missing is that they won 54 games with basically the same core last year.

13-14
Starters - Bev, Harden, Parsons, Jones, Howard
Bench - Lin, DMo, Casspi, Garcia

14-15
Starters - Bev, Harden, Ariza, Jones, Howard
Bench - DMo, Canaan, Daniels, Johnson


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yup, our scrubs on the bench this season are going to outscore everybody.

We won 54 games last season because our scoring load was distributed a lot more, Harden had the ball a lot less, Terence Jones improved tremendously with more playing time and starting and our bench was 100 times better with Lin leading it.

Parsons could have been retained for ~$900k:


This is how much Parsons would be worth going into the 2015 according to the Rockets.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#317 » by gmoney411 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:24 pm

baki wrote: This seems like a dish at Lin and Asik to me, what were they at Houston? Chopped liver? Seems like its not just Morey treating players like commodity, some of their fans do it too :roll:


I'm guessing you missed the part where i said Asik was a very good player. Unfortunately getting Howard made him expendable and he didn't take being a backup very well. I'm not really mad at that because i understand that he felt insulted after all he did for the team the year before. The end result was him not being a major contributor to the Rockets during the regular season last year though. I think the Pelicans got themselves a great player that will help them win plenty of games next year.

As far as Lin goes, I think he also found himself in a bad situation. Playing with Harden was just not a good fit for Lin. He can be an above average player in the right situation but the Rockets were not that situation and as a result his game suffered. Hopefully LA makes better use of his skillset because when used properly he is a pretty good weapon. But that doesn't change my opinion that his scoring off the bench last year can be easily replaced.

I don't think Lin and Asik were good fits for the Rockets anymore but that doesn't mean that I think they are bad players. Fit matters in the NBA and I think the Rockets can find good replacements for what they were getting out of Lin and Asik last year.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#318 » by baki » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:41 pm

gmoney411 wrote:
baki wrote: This seems like a dish at Lin and Asik to me, what were they at Houston? Chopped liver? Seems like its not just Morey treating players like commodity, some of their fans do it too :roll:


I'm guessing you missed the part where i said Asik was a very good player.


Not at all, in fact I quoted that and your hypocrisy at the same time. "Asik WAS a very good player but Howard came along so bye bye Asik".

The fact that you seem to treat Asik and Lin in particular as chopped liver just as Morey did, so I'm not sure if you even watched the Rockets played. I watched every single game they play even when they were on the bench. Just re-read my post several times if you're still not convinced.
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#319 » by Blame Rasho » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:43 pm

dice wrote:
SuperCoolMayo wrote:Was Morey supposed to keep Parsons? He's not worth the max

absolutely not. that was the smart thing morey did: not matching. but declining his 1 mil option for next year was goddamn stupid


You sir made the best post of this thread... Kudos...
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Re: Houston Not Matching Chandler Parsons Offer Sheet 

Post#320 » by princeofpalace » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:52 pm

ocelot17 wrote:Morey on the radio this morning: "The reality is, to win a title, you have to be the team who finds Chandler Parsons... not the team that pays Chandler Parsons a max contract..." Shots fired lol.


Morey has no clue what it takes to win a championship, hell he has no clue what it takes to get out of the 2nd round.

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