2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[916fan]

Is anyone else out there still unimpressed with Mo Bamba? I think he can still be a good C, but he's just such a big project. I guess when you have the #6 pick you can't get too picky, but he's a raw defensive big man.

I wouldnt be worried yet if I was a Magic fan. Gobert was a year older and even worse as a rookie. Not surprising when bigs take a little longer to develop, especially someone as long and skinny as Bamba. Im still going to give him some time to adjust to the speed and strength of the game.

If I'm an Orlando fan, I would be worried about Hammond's drafting tendencies. He drafts players who are long and athletic regardless of fit, but not all of these guys develop like Giannis. Bamba feels extremely redundant with their set of Gordon/Isaac/Vucevic. I know Bamba is more of a C, but what does that make Isaac then? A PF? Well what does that make Gordon then? A SF? They're doing their SF experiments with Gordon and Isaac but I can't say it's working out considering they're 9 games below .500 in a terribly weak East. Plus, lots of reports floating around that Orlando does want to bring back Vucevic.

So where does this leave Bamba? Backup C until he becomes better than Vucevic?

If I had to pick a bust candidate out of the 2018 lotto, I'd say it's Bamba and Jerome Robinson. Still don't know what in the heck Jerry West saw in Robinson.

[King Ken]

So you're just sticking to draft scouting. Good enough. Personally had Bagely number 2 while Doncic number 1.

I will always favor multi position high level playmakers who can pull up volume 3s over anything.

I can see why. Luka was the most polished, ready and skilled to make an impact ASAP. I had him as the most NBA ready player to have entered the NBA draft. Since, I was wrong. He is BY FAR the most NBA ready player to enter the draft.

While I like him more long term as a PG and see it finally being possible, I have pushed him up as recently as a couple days ago.

I still think him and Trae will be a heck of a battle for who's better but I wouldn't count out either. Both are going to be great and they are already tremendous impact players right now.

Bagley to me was the best. No flaws. Elite athlete. Elite motor. No flaws to stop him from developing. I seen him as a big man's version of Giannis. I still see Giannis as a forward who really doesn't have an offensive position. Bagley in the long run won't either. Bagley has even better tools defensively than Giannis. Bagley is just the player who will be the best once well coached and developed and it seems like SAC is doing just that.

I had my doubts with Ayton but shut a lot of it down already. He will be elite, just needs a real f****ng PG.

I'm sorry I just don't see Giannis in Bagely. Giannis has better handles (even as a rookie), better feel in terms playmaking and just overall bigger. I can definitely see the Bosh comparisons though.

I wasn't comparing him to Giannis as the same players with similar skill-sets. I was comparing him to Giannis as a rare athlete with no athletic flaws.

Let's be clear, Giannis was a horrendous rookie. Bagley is a tremendous rookie. To even try to say Giannis was something better as a rookie and beyond foolish but I know what you mean. Giannis showed PG potential as a rookie as well as the handles but that's as far as it goes.

[916fan]

Oh wow, speaking of Bamba...

Read on Twitter

[King Ken]

Oh wow, speaking of Bamba...

Read on Twitter

[King Ken]

Is anyone else out there still unimpressed with Mo Bamba? I think he can still be a good C, but he's just such a big project. I guess when you have the #6 pick you can't get too picky, but he's a raw defensive big man.

I wouldnt be worried yet if I was a Magic fan. Gobert was a year older and even worse as a rookie. Not surprising when bigs take a little longer to develop, especially someone as long and skinny as Bamba. Im still going to give him some time to adjust to the speed and strength of the game.

If I'm an Orlando fan, I would be worried about Hammond's drafting tendencies. He drafts players who are long and athletic regardless of fit, but not all of these guys develop like Giannis. Bamba feels extremely redundant with their set of Gordon/Isaac/Vucevic. I know Bamba is more of a C, but what does that make Isaac then? A PF? Well what does that make Gordon then? A SF? They're doing their SF experiments with Gordon and Isaac but I can't say it's working out considering they're 9 games below .500 in a terribly weak East. Plus, lots of reports floating around that Orlando does want to bring back Vucevic.

So where does this leave Bamba? Backup C until he becomes better than Vucevic?

If I had to pick a bust candidate out of the 2018 lotto, I'd say it's Bamba and Jerome Robinson. Still don't know what in the heck Jerry West saw in Robinson.

Robinson was overslotted but it's clear why. He can score and shoot with size with very good skill. Those are hard to find. But everyone saw he needed time but Jerry always makes long term moves. Not short term.

[KingFox]

I said from the start of the season the Kings made the right pick. Why take the ball out of Fox hands, it would have been Luka vs DSJ all over again in sac but much less justified as Fox is the real deal.The Kings wanted to play high octane and there is no quicker or faster BIg than Bags. He solidifies thier identity. It Was easy to pick on Bagley in this thread but thise days are over l. No Kings fan should be feeling like they made the wrong pick. Vlade got it right. For the record I’m a Knick fan saying this.

Even then it's not as much about taking the ball out of Fox's hands as that with Fox, Luka, and Buddy you'd have three perimeter players who don't have enough perimeter defense among them to make up for the fact that they wouldn't be able to share the ball perfectly.

yea i know the league is headed in another direction, but i feel this balance actualy gives us an advantage moving forward, having unbelievable athletic guys like Bagley and Giles moving forward up front

[Mephariel]

I said from the start of the season the Kings made the right pick. Why take the ball out of Fox hands, it would have been Luka vs DSJ all over again in sac but much less justified as Fox is the real deal.The Kings wanted to play high octane and there is no quicker or faster BIg than Bags. He solidifies thier identity. It Was easy to pick on Bagley in this thread but thise days are over l. No Kings fan should be feeling like they made the wrong pick. Vlade got it right. For the record I’m a Knick fan saying this.

Even then it's not as much about taking the ball out of Fox's hands as that with Fox, Luka, and Buddy you'd have three perimeter players who don't have enough perimeter defense among them to make up for the fact that they wouldn't be able to share the ball perfectly.

yea i know the league is headed in another direction, but i feel this balance actualy gives us an advantage moving forward, having unbelievable athletic guys like Bagley and Giles moving forward up front

I think if we have Luka, our offense would greatly improved, but I think we will be a really soft team.

I will say that I don't think Bagley can ever be as skilled as Luka. I just don't him ever having great handles. That doesn't mean he can't be as good or valuable, but just not as skilled. I think Luka's advantage is that in his prime, even on a bad night, he will get you like 13-18 points 4-6 rebounds, while Bagley on a bad night would get you only like 5-6 points, but maybe 8-10 rebounds.

[BAMAFREAK]

JJJ about to start eating with Gasol gone.
23 6 3 1 2 blocks tonight with 4-7 from 3 pt land. Dudes ceiling is unlimited.

[Mephariel]

Orlando is a terrible situation for him. They really can't play to his strengths, it goes against the strengths of their personnel.


As someone who had Bamba extremely high on his board, Bamba biggest issue is, physical development. Can he develop physically the way Rudy did. We have to remember, Rudy grew in HS. Bamba been tall forever. Maybe it's not there. Gobert also had the Tyson Chandler frame which is bad for basketball skills but great for running distance but tremendous for being a screen setting big who defends. Bamba is moreso built like Thabeet. While Bamba is a lot faster, the issue with Bamba is his speed in spurts is top notch but his game speed consistently is really poor. While Bamba has skill and a lot of talent, he also doesn't have core strength and he is instinctive player. That said, Bamba still has the same talent and ability which got him looked at as the next unicorn but maybe just maybe, his doubters are right about his flaws being too great like Jah Okafor's.

It's hard to say, you kinda have to build around him, an attempt Orlando hasn't made yet. Orlando's refusal to built around guys strengths is really why they haven't benefited from their tremendous drafting over the last 8 years.

I don't know if it is even his physical development that worries me. I think it is more of his lack of alpha mentality. He never had that in any level of basketball and I am not convinced he will in the future.

You don't have to be an alpha at the 5. You just need to be able to play a role. The 5 is the most role based position with the most versatility as well. Depending on how you play and use your 5, he can be good or bad

I would agree with you except he is on the Orlando Magic. If he was on the Spurs or Sixers, I would agree 100%. The Magic needs an alpha male imo.

[Mephariel]

JJJ about to start eating with Gasol gone.
23 6 3 1 2 blocks tonight with 4-7 from 3 pt land. Dudes ceiling is unlimited.

Hope the Grizzlies will be good enough in the next couple of years to take advantage of his skill set.

[islanders11040]

Watch on YouTube

[Bob8]

Even then it's not as much about taking the ball out of Fox's hands as that with Fox, Luka, and Buddy you'd have three perimeter players who don't have enough perimeter defense among them to make up for the fact that they wouldn't be able to share the ball perfectly.

yea i know the league is headed in another direction, but i feel this balance actualy gives us an advantage moving forward, having unbelievable athletic guys like Bagley and Giles moving forward up front

I think if we have Luka, our offense would greatly improved, but I think we will be a really soft team.

I will say that I don't think Bagley can ever be as skilled as Luka. I just don't him ever having great handles. That doesn't mean he can't be as good or valuable, but just not as skilled. I think Luka's advantage is that in his prime, even on a bad night, he will get you like 13-18 points 4-6 rebounds, while Bagley on a bad night would get you only like 5-6 points, but maybe 8-10 rebounds.

No. The difference is that even on bad shooting night Luka can make others better. It’s not only assists, but creation of the offense or if you want hockey assists.

Listening King Ken is always fascinating. He kinda makes compliments to Luka, but his bottom line is, everyone has higher ceiling than Luka. They are more athletic, who cares about skills nowadays in this pick&roll heavy and shooting league. Or they are much smaller, not athletic but have higher ceiling nonetheless just because they’re playing for Atlanta. Bagley and Trae have nothing in common, except that they will be better than Luka.

[Oscar9992]

yea i know the league is headed in another direction, but i feel this balance actualy gives us an advantage moving forward, having unbelievable athletic guys like Bagley and Giles moving forward up front

I think if we have Luka, our offense would greatly improved, but I think we will be a really soft team.

I will say that I don't think Bagley can ever be as skilled as Luka. I just don't him ever having great handles. That doesn't mean he can't be as good or valuable, but just not as skilled. I think Luka's advantage is that in his prime, even on a bad night, he will get you like 13-18 points 4-6 rebounds, while Bagley on a bad night would get you only like 5-6 points, but maybe 8-10 rebounds.

No. The difference is that even on bad shooting night Luka can make others better. It’s not only assists, but creation of the offense or if you want hockey assists.

Listening King Ken is always fascinating. He kinda makes compliments to Luka, but his bottom line is, everyone has higher ceiling than Luka. They are more athletic, who cares about skills nowadays in this pick&roll heavy and shooting league. Or they are much smaller, not athletic but have higher ceiling nonetheless just because they’re playing for Atlanta. Bagley and Trae have nothing in common, except that they will be better than Luka.

I don't think they will ever be close to Luka at all... Talk me after 10 years.

[Bob8]

I think if we have Luka, our offense would greatly improved, but I think we will be a really soft team.

I will say that I don't think Bagley can ever be as skilled as Luka. I just don't him ever having great handles. That doesn't mean he can't be as good or valuable, but just not as skilled. I think Luka's advantage is that in his prime, even on a bad night, he will get you like 13-18 points 4-6 rebounds, while Bagley on a bad night would get you only like 5-6 points, but maybe 8-10 rebounds.

No. The difference is that even on bad shooting night Luka can make others better. It’s not only assists, but creation of the offense or if you want hockey assists.

Listening King Ken is always fascinating. He kinda makes compliments to Luka, but his bottom line is, everyone has higher ceiling than Luka. They are more athletic, who cares about skills nowadays in this pick&roll heavy and shooting league. Or they are much smaller, not athletic but have higher ceiling nonetheless just because they’re playing for Atlanta. Bagley and Trae have nothing in common, except that they will be better than Luka.

I don't think they will ever be close to Luka at all... Talk me after 10 years.

Thats King’s beliefs not mine.

[e_l_f_o]

JJJ about to start eating with Gasol gone.
23 6 3 1 2 blocks tonight with 4-7 from 3 pt land. Dudes ceiling is unlimited.

Didnt impress me that much; quite weak on the boards and missed 2 key FTs at the end (he made up for them with 2 nice blocks on the other end). His future is great, that is out of the question.

Nice game btw by Rabb

[burek3]

yea i know the league is headed in another direction, but i feel this balance actualy gives us an advantage moving forward, having unbelievable athletic guys like Bagley and Giles moving forward up front

I think if we have Luka, our offense would greatly improved, but I think we will be a really soft team.

I will say that I don't think Bagley can ever be as skilled as Luka. I just don't him ever having great handles. That doesn't mean he can't be as good or valuable, but just not as skilled. I think Luka's advantage is that in his prime, even on a bad night, he will get you like 13-18 points 4-6 rebounds, while Bagley on a bad night would get you only like 5-6 points, but maybe 8-10 rebounds.

No. The difference is that even on bad shooting night Luka can make others better. It’s not only assists, but creation of the offense or if you want hockey assists.

Listening King Ken is always fascinating. He kinda makes compliments to Luka, but his bottom line is, everyone has higher ceiling than Luka. They are more athletic, who cares about skills nowadays in this pick&roll heavy and shooting league. Or they are much smaller, not athletic but have higher ceiling nonetheless just because they’re playing for Atlanta. Bagley and Trae have nothing in common, except that they will be better than Luka.

It is kind of funny, the perception that players will just click a button to level up and add one or more elite basketball elements/skills to their game in the off season.

[Bob8]

I think if we have Luka, our offense would greatly improved, but I think we will be a really soft team.

I will say that I don't think Bagley can ever be as skilled as Luka. I just don't him ever having great handles. That doesn't mean he can't be as good or valuable, but just not as skilled. I think Luka's advantage is that in his prime, even on a bad night, he will get you like 13-18 points 4-6 rebounds, while Bagley on a bad night would get you only like 5-6 points, but maybe 8-10 rebounds.

No. The difference is that even on bad shooting night Luka can make others better. It’s not only assists, but creation of the offense or if you want hockey assists.

Listening King Ken is always fascinating. He kinda makes compliments to Luka, but his bottom line is, everyone has higher ceiling than Luka. They are more athletic, who cares about skills nowadays in this pick&roll heavy and shooting league. Or they are much smaller, not athletic but have higher ceiling nonetheless just because they’re playing for Atlanta. Bagley and Trae have nothing in common, except that they will be better than Luka.

It is kind of funny, the perception that players will just click a button to level up and add one or more elite basketball elements/skills to their game in the off season.

The best part of ceiling narrative is that you can sell almost anything. Vivid imagination par excellence. Can Knox be the best player of this draft? Sure he can. You can make the case for almost everyone. Fairy tellers like King Ken have only one problem this year, Luka. He’s so good in his rookie year and he has put the bar so high for others that he has to be contained. And there is where Euroleague narrative, he’s professional for 6 years, he has more experience, he already peaked, kicks in. He believes Trae, Bagley, Ayton will improve in almost everything on the other hand you have player, who supposedly already peaked. Is this fair comparison? Of curse not. But I can live with that too. Things becoming obscure, when a poster writes down that Bagley will be better than Luka because of his unlimited athleticism and in the next sentence he writes down that Trae will be better too. Athleticism as the king and Trae as possibly the best player of the draft? Yeah, sure.

[VCfor3]

JJJ about to start eating with Gasol gone.
23 6 3 1 2 blocks tonight with 4-7 from 3 pt land. Dudes ceiling is unlimited.

Didnt impress me that much; quite weak on the boards and missed 2 key FTs at the end (he made up for them with 2 nice blocks on the other end). His future is great, that is out of the question.

Nice game btw by Rabb

JJJ started the game playing amazing but then seemed like he got worn down. He played more minutes than usual plus he had a greater work load. I'm sure the emotional drain of the Gasol stuff also contributed to this.

And yeah Rabb has looked good the last few games. He hasn't taken 3pt shots but supposedly he has been working on that and his stents in the G league have come with like a four 3pt attempts per game mandate which he is making at a decent clip.

[guille_4]

Luka Doncic on triple double watch; 13 points, 8 rebounds and 7 assists in halftime.

[burek3]

He got the triple double but man he shot like **** tonight.