Masai Ujiri is Overrated

[Madhouse]

He is a good GM. He is only overrated by people who act like he is the best GM.

Best is subjective, I don’t think there’s a clear best, but name me 3 better GMs

Well how are we going to judge it? If we go by how many title winners built then Buford (Spurs), Meyers (Golden State) and Riley (Heat) all have more and a few guys have as many as Ujiri. If we're going by recency then you have to put Horst for the Bucks ahead of him as well.

Then you have to look at context. He built a title winner 1 year. Good for him he deserves credit for that. It was also a weird year with lots of injuries and we all know your Raptors weren't beating a fully healthy Golden State team. He also got Kawhi for way below his value at the time because the Spurs were stubborn and refused to trade Kawhi to California like he wanted. Most teams weren't in a position to take that risk but the Raptors knew that they had to break up the Lowry/DeRozan duo because it wasn't working so they rolled the dice. Again he gets credit for even doing it but it's not a replicable thing but a highly unique circumstance.

Outside of that he's done good but I wouldn't say he's done anything worthy of being considered one of the best. He's drafted lots of good players, but he hasn't drafted a #1 star type. He hasn't acquired a #1 star through any other means outside of Kawhi and that was a 1-year rental. The way the NBA works, he's not going to get to any more finals until he can actually get another #1 star. Maybe he will maybe he won't. I certainly think he deserves more time before we judge fully but if we're 5 years down the road and he still hasn't gotten one and the Raptors are just a consistent 45 win team and a 4-8 seed every year then the notion that he's a top 3 GM will seem asinine.

Given the draft position he has been in, those were excellent drafts. Given the draft pick value, he has probably had the best drafts since he was hired in the NBA.

He has won
48
49
56
51
59
58
53 (in 72 games)

and this year 47-49 games.

He has won 9 playoff series and reached several conference finals.

I'm not sure where your 45 win team stuff comes from but the Raptors have always been way past that.

He also drafted the possible ROY last year and is winning 47-49 games with a rebuilding team this year. Imagine how good they will be in the future.

[CoachD]

Let's make this really simple.

When Masai was hired in 2013, the Raptors were 10th in the weak East and had no draft picks to use.
Rudy Gay was their best player.

The franchise had only ever won 1 playoff series.

Since 2015 .... Toronto has the 2nd most wins in the nba regular season and are top 5 in most playoff wins despite the fact that they missed the playoffs previously.

He constantly finds players in the draft that become upper end pieces and he wins almost every trade by a lot.

[gpoon]

Imagine Masai had free reign to run the Lakers...

everyone would be calling him the greatest GM of all time

[anotherhomer]

Imagine Masai had free reign to run the Lakers...

everyone would be calling him the greatest GM of all time

Jeannie Buss is too cheap to pay Ujiri

[SelfishPlayer]

In North America Toronto is the 4th largest city now. Behind Mexico city, NYC and LA.

As a Raptor fan from 1995 I totally admit there was a time when the franchise was run terribly and there was a ton of ignorance towards Toronto. Vince also re-signed with us until the trade. To reiterate the post above its been a while since a player has crapped on our city and I think it was a generational thing as an expansion franchise. Now most players understand how great of a city Toronto is - the whole double tax thing is way overblown if you have a good accountant there are creative accounting ways to pay less tax. There are cities with more income tax than Toronto (NYC).
I think the latest hater diatribe against Toronto is Kawhi left. Well yeah he did but it was pretty evident that he wanted to play home in LA - he asked the Spurs to trade him there to begin with. He didn't complain at all during his time here and was actually a part of our community for that one year. Came back in summer a few times to party even after the championship.

In the NBA the biggest destinations are LA and Miami. Every other city has to compete more or less the same way. Toronto is a better city than many of the league's city. There are places like Milwaukee, Detroit, Minnesota, Memphis, Washington, Cleveland, and Boston that can't touch Toronto.

.
For an American NBA player being a Piston is better than being a Raptor. Detroit and/or Michigan's taxes are substantially lower. NBA players stay in the house a lot and fly in friends so they don't need to go to night clubs to meet friends in the social media age.

Lol ya.. no.. detroit is a terrible city - depress af.

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

[sp6r=underrated]

He did a really good job in Denver. He has performed well in Toronto. That he doesn't have a cult around him the way Hinkie did or Morey does is interesting from a cultural perspective. Given his success relative to theirs.

Some of the reasons are he's a former jock turned management figure. This was common but is in decline. Hinkie/Morey were never jocks and have the educational background common to analytical identified fans. They identify with him educationally. They also identify with Hinkie and Morey for some other obvious reasons but the conversation will get heated quickly if it gets explicit.

[mcmurphy]

Then you have to look at context. He built a title winner 1 year. Good for him he deserves credit for that.

No, you say it but you don't look at the context.

Before Colangelo...
11 seasons
average of 32w/50l (winning pct= 0.390) - #3 playoff appearances - 1 round win (1x ECSF)

with Colangelo
7 season with Colangelo as GM (with Bosh in his prime, All-Star player, Top15 player)
average of 35w/47l (winning pct= 0.430) - #2 playoff appearances - 0 round win

with Masai
8 season (high pick in this span Poeltl with #9)
average of 52w/30l (winning pct= 0.630) - #7 playoff appearances - 9 round win (1 ring, 1x ECF, 3x ECSF)

But what are we talking about?

Without talk of retooling of last season.

[CoachD]

.
For an American NBA player being a Piston is better than being a Raptor. Detroit and/or Michigan's taxes are substantially lower. NBA players stay in the house a lot and fly in friends so they don't need to go to night clubs to meet friends in the social media age.

Lol ya.. no.. detroit is a terrible city - depress af.

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

Tell me you know nothing about Toronto real estate, without telling me you know nothing about Toronto real estate.

There's a reason why pre covid half the NBA would come to Toronto to party in August. EVERY player that's played in Toronto gushes about the city, the multi culturalism, the nightlife, the 5 star restaurants ....

LOL Toronto crushes Detroit as a city in every possible way.
If you're talking the city and everything it offers to a player ... it's also a better option than Cleveland, Brooklyn, Minnesota, Philly, Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Indiana, and more.

The ONLY strike against Toronto is if someone wants to be in a warm weather city. But Toronto's weather is the same or better than many of those teams I just mentioned

[kenwood3333]

Masai is very underrated. Its extremely diffcult to build a team outside of the US. Yet he has been fairly successful. Look at that LA team players flock to, can't even make the play in, with so many 'hall of famer' on the roster. Yet the Toronto team is relying on G league players and rookies to compete. Put Masai in charge of the Lakers, I doubt they will miss the playoff.

[SelfishPlayer]

Lol ya.. no.. detroit is a terrible city - depress af.

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

Tell me you know nothing about Toronto real estate, without telling me you know nothing about Toronto real estate.

There's a reason why pre covid half the NBA would come to Toronto to party in August. EVERY player that's played in Toronto gushes about the city, the multi culturalism, the nightlife, the 5 star restaurants ....

LOL Toronto crushes Detroit as a city in every possible way.
If you're talking the city and everything it offers to a player ... it's also a better option than Cleveland, Brooklyn, Minnesota, Philly, Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Indiana, and more.

The ONLY strike against Toronto is if someone wants to be in a warm weather city. But Toronto's weather is the same or better than many of those teams I just mentioned

Small lots.

[BlackThought]

When it comes to drafting it's hard to criticize Masai. At least in recent memory the Raptors have drafted either the best player or close to the best at their draft position. The only draft that Masai sort of failed was the Bruno Caboclo draft since there were still a handful of quality players including Jokic/Jerami Grant/Dinwinddie/Joe Harris/Kyle Anderson/Capela/Bogdan available. In every other year it would be hard to find more than a couple of guys that the Raptors should have drafted instead of who they ended up drafting. (in the first round anyway)

As for team building I respect GMs that have a vision of what type of basketball that they want to play. Guys like Morey and Buford and Riley all have templates for the type of players that fit in their system and a lot of the time their vision differs from the common theme at the time. Masai's body of work has put himself in that category as well.

[defstarcon]

the masai doubters, YESSSSSS

LET THE HATE FLOW THROUGH YOU.

also 5 in the eastern conference right now, in the playoffs, many accolades this season, including all-star appearances and potential all nba, top 5 defense etc....

and you still doubt...amazing the snowflakes that exist here.

[whitehops]

the thing is i think he could be even better going forward. it's no secret that he's obsessed with length and i think the skill level players have these days is catching up to his vision.

in the past there were times he tried to "force it", if you will, essentially just grabbing a guy that was athletic and long even when they had little to no actual ability. two main examples for me would be signing javale mcgee long-term to more money than steph curry and drafting bruno caboclo.

but now taller players are coming into the league with more skill which makes the all-6'9 lineup more viable. adding barnes and achiuwa in the same off season really accelerated the vision.

[Deadpool Raptor]

.
For an American NBA player being a Piston is better than being a Raptor. Detroit and/or Michigan's taxes are substantially lower. NBA players stay in the house a lot and fly in friends so they don't need to go to night clubs to meet friends in the social media age.

Lol ya.. no.. detroit is a terrible city - depress af.

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

You're out of your depth here. Toronto is in the NFL of real estate.

[Tor_Raps]

Lol ya.. no.. detroit is a terrible city - depress af.

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

You're out of your depth here. Toronto is in the NFL of real estate.

This is a good example of 'if you don't know what you're talking about then just don't speak' lol.

Canada (mainly Toronto and Vancouver) is a real estate giant for the rich. Now this comes at the expense of the middle and lower class people but that's a different discussion.

[wegotthabeet]

Could be, but Piston's players have more impressive Detroit area mansions than Raptor's players have anywhere in Canada.

Tell me you know nothing about Toronto real estate, without telling me you know nothing about Toronto real estate.

There's a reason why pre covid half the NBA would come to Toronto to party in August. EVERY player that's played in Toronto gushes about the city, the multi culturalism, the nightlife, the 5 star restaurants ....

LOL Toronto crushes Detroit as a city in every possible way.
If you're talking the city and everything it offers to a player ... it's also a better option than Cleveland, Brooklyn, Minnesota, Philly, Chicago, Charlotte, Washington, Indiana, and more.

The ONLY strike against Toronto is if someone wants to be in a warm weather city. But Toronto's weather is the same or better than many of those teams I just mentioned

Small lots.

The Bridle Path homes have lots that are 2 to 4+ acres. 20 minutes drive to Scotiabank Arena.

[kanersen]

Raps have the best President/GM in the league.
Raps have the best coach in the league.
Their fingerprints are all over this team's DNA.

[NirvanaFC]

Where the **** is the OP?

[Ayt]

He did a really good job in Denver. He has performed well in Toronto. That he doesn't have a cult around him the way Hinkie did or Morey does is interesting from a cultural perspective. Given his success relative to theirs.

Some of the reasons are he's a former jock turned management figure. This was common but is in decline. Hinkie/Morey were never jocks and have the educational background common to analytical identified fans. They identify with him educationally. They also identify with Hinkie and Morey for some other obvious reasons but the conversation will get heated quickly if it gets explicit.

I don't think it is all that complicated. Morey and Hinkie are much more polarizing. Morey became the face of analytics amongst GM's in the minds of many and a lot of people hate analytics and the impact they think Morey has had, and Hinkie obviously was very polarizing. What is there to even argue about with Ujiri?

[srhcan]

He is a good GM. He is only overrated by people who act like he is the best GM.

Best is subjective, I don’t think there’s a clear best, but name me 3 better GMs

Well how are we going to judge it? If we go by how many title winners built then Buford (Spurs), Meyers (Golden State) and Riley (Heat) all have more and a few guys have as many as Ujiri. If we're going by recency then you have to put Horst for the Bucks ahead of him as well.

Then you have to look at context. He built a title winner 1 year. Good for him he deserves credit for that. It was also a weird year with lots of injuries and we all know your Raptors weren't beating a fully healthy Golden State team. He also got Kawhi for way below his value at the time because the Spurs were stubborn and refused to trade Kawhi to California like he wanted. Most teams weren't in a position to take that risk but the Raptors knew that they had to break up the Lowry/DeRozan duo because it wasn't working so they rolled the dice. Again he gets credit for even doing it but it's not a replicable thing but a highly unique circumstance.

Outside of that he's done good but I wouldn't say he's done anything worthy of being considered one of the best. He's drafted lots of good players, but he hasn't drafted a #1 star type. He hasn't acquired a #1 star through any other means outside of Kawhi and that was a 1-year rental. The way the NBA works, he's not going to get to any more finals until he can actually get another #1 star. Maybe he will maybe he won't. I certainly think he deserves more time before we judge fully but if we're 5 years down the road and he still hasn't gotten one and the Raptors are just a consistent 45 win team and a 4-8 seed every year then the notion that he's a top 3 GM will seem asinine.

This post is so damn bad that its funny.