2022 All-Star reserves [UPDATED]

[HMFFL]

I'd have given LaMelo the nod over FVV but all in all I think they got it right.

FVV deserves it.
Melo is deserving as well but not over FVV.

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[HMFFL]

Lamelo Ball should have made it over FVV and Allen should have been the Cavs player not Garland.

Every Cavs fan is saying that Garland is undoubtedly the most important player to the team's success this year. The lineup data screams that this is the case, as well. Only people who hardly watch the Cavs - and/or are upset their team's favorite guard such as LaMelo didn't make it in place of DG - are saying Allen deserved it more than Garland. What does that tell you?

Garland deserved it. I would have been shocked had he not made it.

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[TheLand13]

im low key happy allen didnt make it. Hes not there yet he was getting way too much hype because of record and the game being in Cleveland I dont think he should be the replacment either

He's one of the best rim protecting centers in the league averaging a double double on insane efficiency.

In what way is he overrated?

I think hes fine I got siakiam sabonis middleton and miles bridges over him tho brown holiday and ball if were counting gaurds. hes overated because everyone predicted him to make it when he was clearly not deemed worthy by the coaches. i think thats the definition of overated. Garland was well deserved tho dont hate me Cleveland

So in other words you're going off of other coaches thoughts and aren't capable of forming your own opinion on the matter?

[JustLucky]

no im glad other knowledgeable people had the same opinion of me

[Sothron]

Lamelo Ball should have made it over FVV and Allen should have been the Cavs player not Garland.

Every Cavs fan is saying that Garland is undoubtedly the most important player to the team's success this year. The lineup data screams that this is the case, as well. Only people who hardly watch the Cavs - and/or are upset their team's favorite guard such as LaMelo didn't make it in place of DG - are saying Allen deserved it more than Garland. What does that tell you?

I've watched the Cavs. Garland is not as good as Lamelo and Lamelo deserved it over Garland. FVV has no place being in the AS game and his spot should be taken by Allen whose more deserving than Garland. there's only one true center on the East and that is another reason why Allen should have made it over Garland.

[zimpy27]

Gobert doesn't make the West starters
Allen doesn't make the East team

NBA just has no respect for these type of players anymore

[Duffman100]

Cavs deserved two players. Really wanted Allen there.

[Syd-TK3]

Lamelo Ball should have made it over FVV and Allen should have been the Cavs player not Garland.

Every Cavs fan is saying that Garland is undoubtedly the most important player to the team's success this year. The lineup data screams that this is the case, as well. Only people who hardly watch the Cavs - and/or are upset their team's favorite guard such as LaMelo didn't make it in place of DG - are saying Allen deserved it more than Garland. What does that tell you?

I've watched the Cavs. Garland is not as good as Lamelo and Lamelo deserved it over Garland. FVV has no place being in the AS game and his spot should be taken by Allen whose more deserving than Garland. there's only one true center on the East and that is another reason why Allen should have made it over Garland.

Just say you don't watch basketball

[MrBigShot]

Garland is ballin' man. Very well deserving, you'll be seeing him in the all star game again.

[Sothron]

Every Cavs fan is saying that Garland is undoubtedly the most important player to the team's success this year. The lineup data screams that this is the case, as well. Only people who hardly watch the Cavs - and/or are upset their team's favorite guard such as LaMelo didn't make it in place of DG - are saying Allen deserved it more than Garland. What does that tell you?

I've watched the Cavs. Garland is not as good as Lamelo and Lamelo deserved it over Garland. FVV has no place being in the AS game and his spot should be taken by Allen whose more deserving than Garland. there's only one true center on the East and that is another reason why Allen should have made it over Garland.

Just say you don't watch basketball

lol I've watched the NBA since 1979. I was there when the NBA was forced to put in a rule to save a team from their owner being a moron and trading away all their picks. Can you guess what team that was and what the name of the owner was without googling?

[art_tatum]

Crazy warriors have more all stars than the lakers or nets. How much help does curry need.

Lebron has no all star teammates this year.
KD has 1.

[turnaroundJ]

Lamelo’s gotta get in for someone

Yup. Him and Allen.

I was going to say that too, suprised Allen didnt make it. I figured he would be far more popular with players/coaches with how he plays than he would be with the fan vote. Maybe he gets subbed in for KD if that decision hasnt already been made yet.

Same thoughts.

I love Jimmy but I feel like he’s missed way too many games. I’d remove him and Khris to add Lamelo and Jarrett Allen. Cavs deserve two for sure. But right, KD might not even play so that frees up a spot.

For the west I can’t really say much, it’s pretty thin out there this year because of all the injuries to big stars like Kawhi, PG, AD. I have no problem with rewarding Dray - after all defense is a huge reason why the Warriors are good. It’s not like there’s anyone else.

[TheLand13]

I've watched the Cavs. Garland is not as good as Lamelo and Lamelo deserved it over Garland. FVV has no place being in the AS game and his spot should be taken by Allen whose more deserving than Garland. there's only one true center on the East and that is another reason why Allen should have made it over Garland.

Just say you don't watch basketball

lol I've watched the NBA since 1979. I was there when the NBA was forced to put in a rule to save a team from their owner being a moron and trading away all their picks. Can you guess what team that was and what the name of the owner was without googling?

I'll save you all the trouble. The Cavaliers and the Stephen rule. Created after he kept giving away first round picks, one of which turned into James Worthy for the Lakers.

And Garland has been better than LaMelo this year.

Edit: Oof, upon googling to confirm, I apparently misspelled the name horribly. It's Stepien, not Stephen.

[AussieCeltic]

I said earlier in the season that FVV didn’t deserve it but based on the last month the Raptors have had, he should be there.

I think Lamelo over Harden or Middleton seems fair.

[JujitsuFlip]

Yup. Him and Allen.

I was going to say that too, suprised Allen didnt make it. I figured he would be far more popular with players/coaches with how he plays than he would be with the fan vote. Maybe he gets subbed in for KD if that decision hasnt already been made yet.

Same thoughts.

I love Jimmy but I feel like he’s missed way too many games. I’d remove him and Khris to add Lamelo and Jarrett Allen. Cavs deserve two for sure. But right, KD might not even play so that frees up a spot.

For the west I can’t really say much, it’s pretty thin out there this year because of all the injuries to big stars like Kawhi, PG, AD. I have no problem with rewarding Dray - after all defense is a huge reason why the Warriors are good. It’s not like there’s anyone else.

Heat gotta have someone, they're tied for the best record in the conference lol

[Profound23]

I said earlier in the season that FVV didn’t deserve it but based on the last month the Raptors have had, he should be there.

I think Lamelo over Harden or Middleton seems fair.

Yes, Melo should have gotten in over either one of those two players, as well as FVV. Crazy man!

[yoyoboy]

So let's delve into this LaMelo versus Garland matter:

With Garland on the court, the Cavs have a +9.1 Net Rating. In games Garland plays (44), the Cavs have a +6.14 SRS (58-estimated win pace) and are 28-16 (52-win pace).

With Garland off the court, the Cavs have a -3.6 Net Rating. In games Garland misses (8), the Cavs have a -6.29 SRS (23-estimated win pace) and are 3-5 (31-win pace). ​

With LaMelo on the court, the Hornets have a +0.4 Net Rating. In games Melo plays (45), the Hornets have a -0.41 SRS (40-estimated win pace) and are 24-21 (44-win pace).

With LaMelo off the court, the Hornets have a -1.0 Net Rating. In games Melo misses (7), the Hornets have a +0.14 SRS (41-estimated win pace) and are 4-3 (47-win pace).

To sum up, with Garland on the court, per on-court plus/minus, the Cavs perform significantly better than the Hornets do with LaMelo on the court. When Garland plays, the Cavs' win-pace is much higher than the Hornets' when Melo plays, both in large sample sizes of games. In smaller sample sizes in which Melo and Garland miss games, the Hornets perform significantly better without Ball than the Cavs do without Garland. Looking at on-off, W-L record, and SRS, the Hornets actually perform equal or even just a hair better with Ball not on the court than they do with him on, whereas the Cavs go from playing like contenders with DG to playing like complete bottom feeders when Garland is out.

RAPM paints a similar picture, where Garland at +3.51, ranks 5th in the league, which is 99.2nd percentile. Meanwhile, Melo has posted an RAPM of +0.33, which ranks 182nd in the league, putting him in the 69.2nd percentile.

Looking at their individual numbers, Garland is scoring 19.8 ppg while Melo is scoring 19.9 ppg. Slim difference there, but Garland is clearly more efficient. His 57.7% TS is 1.8% above league average efficiency whereas Ball's scoring at an efficiency of 54.4% TS, which is 1.5% below league average. Contrary to what you might expect, Garland also averages 0.5 more apg than Ball, posting 8.2 apg versus LaMelo's 7.7. Ball averages fewer turnovers per game, which works in his favor, but Garland plays on a roster with 4 other starters who combined average 3.2 three point makes per game on 31.9% 3P shooting. Extremely low volume on very poor efficiency from beyond the arc, which makes for very crowded spacing. Higher turnovers are a natural by-product of attempting more interior passes, which is necessary on a team with 3 non-outside shooters in its starting lineup, but interior passes are also higher reward and more difficult plays compared to kicking out for threes, which further illustrates Garland's fantastic playmaking ability. The Cavs with Garland on have a 111.8 ORTG, which is only barely below Ball's 112.5 ORTG on the court, despite Garland playing with significantly worse spacing, shooting, and playmaking around him. Without Garland, the Cavs' ORTG drops 9.0 points to 102.8. Without Melo, the Hornets' ORTG drops 3.6 points to 108.9.

Garland ranks 3rd in the entire league in distance traveled per game on offense. This imo not only showcases the burden he carries on that end but it's also reflective of just how much he moves off the ball to keep the otherwise stagnant Cleveland offense going. DG is constantly setting screens of the ball, causing havoc in the paint, sprinting around to get open looks from 3 for himself and to cause confusion in the defense and get easy shots for teammates. Melo isn't close to the same off-ball threat Garland is. And yet because of the Cavs' supporting cast which lacks playmakers, Garland's off-the-ball prowess isn't even fully taken advantage of. Just 53.2% of his three pointers are assisted. Compare that to Ball who's assisted on 74.1% of his threes. Yet despite having to self create so many more of his looks from beyond the arc, Garland shoots better than Melo from three - 36.9% for the former and 35.8% for the latter. Garland's off-the-dribble shooting ability puts more pressure on the defense than Ball's does, and the trapping and double-teaming he sees (the second one, which DG ranks 12th in the league for) is just more extensive for him than it is for LaMelo.

Ball is a better rebounder for sure, averaging 7.7 rpg to Garland's 3.3, which is nearly double. But PG rebounding is only so valuable. With Ball on the court, the Hornets are only slightly better on the boards than with him off, about 0.4% better in TRB%. Compare that to Garland, where the Cavs are 1.1% better in TRB% with him on versus off. Ball is averaging only 1.9 contested rebounds per game. It's more than Garland's 0.5, but when only 26% of your boards are contested and you presence has a negligible impact on team rebounding ability, it's just not that big of a deal for Ball to rack up a few more rebounds on the stat sheet. Certainly not enough to make up for the advantages Garland has elsewhere.

Finally, you have defense. Because of Ball's superior size and steal rate, it's easy to believe he's just the better defender. But plus-minus metrics paint a different story. The Cavs are 3.7 points worse in DRTG with Garland off the court versus on. The Hornets are 2.3 points better in DRTG with Ball off versus on. Ball's -0.54 D-RAPM ranks 477th, which is 19th percentile, while Garland's +1.86 D-RAPM ranks 7th, which is 99th percentile. That doesn't mean Garland is an elite defender. The splits for offense/defense are wonky especially because turnovers lead to transition, blending the line between offense and defense. Furthermore, your abilities as an offensive player can determine the kinds of defensive lineups that can function around you, and so amazing offensive players can carry limited offensive players that provide elite defense, which could pump up the elite offensive guy's defensive metrics while simultaneously underrating his offense. But all in all, Garland's communication on defense, leadership, constant awareness and effort, and execution of the scheme have turned him into an at the very least serviceable defender while Ball offers very little outside of the steals aspect, something that can actually hurt him because of the drawbacks of too much gambling.

Here are some other all-in-one "impact" metrics for Garland and Ball that incorporate lineup data, tracking data, and even some box-score information:

EPM:

Garland: +3.4
Ball: +3.1

RAPTOR:

Garland: +3.8
Ball: +2.4

LEBRON:

Garland: +1.61
Ball: +1.70

DRIP:

Garland: +1.9
Ball: +1.6

DPM:

Garland: +0.8
Ball: +1.0

Ball edges Garland out in two of the five metrics, but on the whole Garland looks better. And it's worth mentioning that these stats rely fairly heavily on the priors, which really hurts Garland because he was a frankly bad player for most of his first two seasons in the league and significantly improved this season. Ball was much better last year than DG was either of his first two years, and so he benefits from a better prior that pumps up his "impact" metrics for this season. And yet Garland still comes up on top. In metrics like single-year RAPM, it's no surprise Garland blows Ball on the water since it's excluded to this season's data set.

All in all, Garland is a better scorer, a superior off-the-ball threat, a roughly equal playmaker, and a better defender than Ball, while leading a team that is miles better with him playing compared to Ball's team with him playing. And his impact on his team's performance is so far ahead of Ball's in the various means I demonstrated it, that it's not even comparable. This frankly shouldn't be an argument. Garland has been the clearly better player this season.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm quite surprised Lamelo didn't make it.

Honestly I'm surprised he wasn't a strong candidate for the fan vote, and had he been strong for the fan vote, I think he might have made it here.

All this talk about how exciting LaMelo is and how that should factor into the all-star consideration really falls flat when the fans themselves really didn't make him come close.

Not that I don't think LaMelo is exciting - I think he is - nor that LaMelo wasn't a worthy candidate - because I think he was - but the fan vote clearly indicated that there wasn't any particular reason to force him into the game in the name of pleasing rabid fans. He really doesn't have the kind of mass fan support that, say, Trae Young had in his second year, whether people think that's right or not.

probably get in trouble if I'm too clear on this but lets just say America doesn't control the fan vote and the Balls aren't super liked where the fan votes come in from for obvious reasons

Are you really looking to suggest that a Chinese anti-LeMelo bias is the reason why he placed 5th instead of 1st or 2nd?

[HardenandWilt]

If harden didn’t make the all star team, neither did curry

[Mickey8]

Green should never make NBA All Star game, he's a good role player , especially for that system but his stats are underwhelming every season.