Cavs made a huge mistake and traded the wrong big man

[Wolveswin]

the picks would have been going from utah to cleveland had mobley been in the trade.

Even more dumb not to include Mobley. Cavs would have all their own 1sts plus anything from Jazz - plus salary filler - for yet ANOTHER star trade to join Mitchell while keeping Markkanen.

The old adage that "you don't trade big for small" doesn't really hold up anymore but no.....the only dumb thing in this thread is suggesting that the Cavs should have traded Mobley. I was disappointed that Lauri was included when the trade happened but you have to give something to get something and at this point I think the deal worked out fine for both teams.

Oh, I too think deal worked out for both teams. That isn’t what we are talking about here. Different subject.

What we ARE talking about is IF Ainge truly would have gave 1st(s) to Cavs for Mobley inclusion (and Cavs keep all their draft capital) as poster suggested, it wouldn’t have been JUST Mitchell Cavs could have traded for. It would have been Mitchell + 4x 1sts & 3x + Swaps player to be named later, with Markkannen still on roster.

I love me some Mobley, just no way be is worth Markkanen + say KD package.

[JonFromVA]

Even more dumb not to include Mobley. Cavs would have all their own 1sts plus anything from Jazz - plus salary filler - for yet ANOTHER star trade to join Mitchell while keeping Markkanen.

The old adage that "you don't trade big for small" doesn't really hold up anymore but no.....the only dumb thing in this thread is suggesting that the Cavs should have traded Mobley. I was disappointed that Lauri was included when the trade happened but you have to give something to get something and at this point I think the deal worked out fine for both teams.

Oh, I too think deal worked out for both teams. That isn’t what we are talking about here. Different subject.

What we ARE talking about is IF Ainge truly would have gave 1st(s) to Cavs for Mobley inclusion (and Cavs keep all their draft capital) as poster suggested, it wouldn’t have been JUST Mitchell Cavs could have traded for. It would have been Mitchell + 4x 1sts & 3x + Swaps player to be named later, with Markkannen still on roster.

I love me some Mobley, just no way be is worth Markkanen + say KD package.

Good luck finding a Cavs fan who regrets not trading Mobley.

If KD was 26, grew up a Cavs fan, and was excited to team-up with Garland, Allen, and Mitchell ... I might reconsider?

Lakers fans started rubbing their hands last year that our So Cal kid may eventually make his way there, but they weren't considering his personality.

Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc fans should understand, we need or at least prefer players with different priorities.

[Wolveswin]

The old adage that "you don't trade big for small" doesn't really hold up anymore but no.....the only dumb thing in this thread is suggesting that the Cavs should have traded Mobley. I was disappointed that Lauri was included when the trade happened but you have to give something to get something and at this point I think the deal worked out fine for both teams.

Oh, I too think deal worked out for both teams. That isn’t what we are talking about here. Different subject.

What we ARE talking about is IF Ainge truly would have gave 1st(s) to Cavs for Mobley inclusion (and Cavs keep all their draft capital) as poster suggested, it wouldn’t have been JUST Mitchell Cavs could have traded for. It would have been Mitchell + 4x 1sts & 3x + Swaps player to be named later, with Markkannen still on roster.

I love me some Mobley, just no way be is worth Markkanen + say KD package.

Good luck finding a Cavs fan who regrets not trading Mobley.

If KD was 26, grew up a Cavs fan, and was excited to team-up with Garland, Allen, and Mitchell ... I might reconsider?

Lakers fans started rubbing their hands last year that our So Cal kid may eventually make his way there, but they weren't considering his personality.

Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc fans should understand, we need or at least prefer players with different priorities.

I said KD package not KD himself.

Why would I be suggesting any Cavs fan regret not trading Mobley for Mitchell?!? Not even close to what I was saying. And not sure why you are trying to change subject matter from point I am making.

Now, if it could have been Mitchell and say OG, roster is sounding sexy. OG would have been risk but maybe worth the 1sts (some from Jazz too) from a Cavs team just traded Mobley for Mitchell.

Allen
Markkanen
OG
Mitchell
Garland

[KazuoOda]

Oh, I too think deal worked out for both teams. That isn’t what we are talking about here. Different subject.

What we ARE talking about is IF Ainge truly would have gave 1st(s) to Cavs for Mobley inclusion (and Cavs keep all their draft capital) as poster suggested, it wouldn’t have been JUST Mitchell Cavs could have traded for. It would have been Mitchell + 4x 1sts & 3x + Swaps player to be named later, with Markkannen still on roster.

I love me some Mobley, just no way be is worth Markkanen + say KD package.

Good luck finding a Cavs fan who regrets not trading Mobley.

If KD was 26, grew up a Cavs fan, and was excited to team-up with Garland, Allen, and Mitchell ... I might reconsider?

Lakers fans started rubbing their hands last year that our So Cal kid may eventually make his way there, but they weren't considering his personality.

Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc fans should understand, we need or at least prefer players with different priorities.

I said KD package not KD himself.

Why would I be suggesting any Cavs fan regret not trading Mobley for Mitchell?!? Not even close to what I was saying. And not sure why you are trying to change subject matter from point I am making.

Now, if it could have been Mitchell and say OG, roster is sounding sexy. OG would have been risk but maybe worth the 1sts (some from Jazz too) from a Cavs team just traded Mobley for Mitchell.

Allen
Markkanen
OG
Mitchell
Garland

No thank you. No player in the league is worth trading Mobley at this moment.

[Willarmm]

So I haven’t posted in years but I have to get this off my chest….Mobley is a top 7 contract in the nba at this point(21 yrs old, borderline DPOY on a rookie scale and is ascending offensively) that Mitchell wouldn’t even rival his value, this is an asinine take from people who say we should have included Mobley.

Mitchell is great and I love having him but I think this worked for both teams. RIGHT NOW, 99% of cavs fans would tell you mobley is the most important player both short term and long term(as a whole package). So the idea of trading him BEFORE the big extension he will get is insane and it would be nearly impossible to justify…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[montaingne]

Cavs should have traded for mike Conley if they wanted the Jazz best point guard.

[JonFromVA]

Oh, I too think deal worked out for both teams. That isn’t what we are talking about here. Different subject.

What we ARE talking about is IF Ainge truly would have gave 1st(s) to Cavs for Mobley inclusion (and Cavs keep all their draft capital) as poster suggested, it wouldn’t have been JUST Mitchell Cavs could have traded for. It would have been Mitchell + 4x 1sts & 3x + Swaps player to be named later, with Markkannen still on roster.

I love me some Mobley, just no way be is worth Markkanen + say KD package.

Good luck finding a Cavs fan who regrets not trading Mobley.

If KD was 26, grew up a Cavs fan, and was excited to team-up with Garland, Allen, and Mitchell ... I might reconsider?

Lakers fans started rubbing their hands last year that our So Cal kid may eventually make his way there, but they weren't considering his personality.

Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc fans should understand, we need or at least prefer players with different priorities.

I said KD package not KD himself.

Why would I be suggesting any Cavs fan regret not trading Mobley for Mitchell?!? Not even close to what I was saying. And not sure why you are trying to change subject matter from point I am making.

Now, if it could have been Mitchell and say OG, roster is sounding sexy. OG would have been risk but maybe worth the 1sts (some from Jazz too) from a Cavs team just traded Mobley for Mitchell.

Allen
Markkanen
OG
Mitchell
Garland

Its not hard to pick apart hypothetical deals...

Mobley is under team control a lot longer than OG or even LM and the 5th guy will need to be cost controlled in the long run.

Also Lauri is not a starting PF. All his success has come playing SF.

And finally, just no thanks. The Cavs already have the best net rating in the league in spite of their hole at SF because they can keep Mobley or Allen on the floor at all times in addition to Garland or Mitchell.

[Wolveswin]

Good luck finding a Cavs fan who regrets not trading Mobley.

If KD was 26, grew up a Cavs fan, and was excited to team-up with Garland, Allen, and Mitchell ... I might reconsider?

Lakers fans started rubbing their hands last year that our So Cal kid may eventually make his way there, but they weren't considering his personality.

Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc fans should understand, we need or at least prefer players with different priorities.

I said KD package not KD himself.

Why would I be suggesting any Cavs fan regret not trading Mobley for Mitchell?!? Not even close to what I was saying. And not sure why you are trying to change subject matter from point I am making.

Now, if it could have been Mitchell and say OG, roster is sounding sexy. OG would have been risk but maybe worth the 1sts (some from Jazz too) from a Cavs team just traded Mobley for Mitchell.

Allen
Markkanen
OG
Mitchell
Garland

Its not hard to pick apart hypothetical deals...

Mobley is under team control a lot longer than OG or even LM and the 5th guy will need to be cost controlled in the long run.

Also Lauri is not a starting PF. All his success has come playing SF.

And finally, just no thanks. The Cavs already have the best net rating in the league in spite of their hole at SF because they can keep Mobley or Allen on the floor at all times in addition to Garland or Mitchell.

Than make it KD package for Siakam and keep Lauri at SF. Siakam can at least be extended at not flight risk (as much compared to OG).
Allen
Siakam
Markkannen
Mitchell
Garland

Point is, poster above said IF Mobley instead of Lauri (at time of Jazz trade), Ainge is one adding picks. If so, I say Mobley should have been added. Cavs not only keep Markkanen (as this whole thread you clicked on is about) but retain the “KD package” aka 4x1sts+Swaps for player to be named later (see Siakam as example). Mobley is a great player, and rookie contract locked in, but he just isn’t better to Cavs success than Lauri+Siakam (for example).

[Wolveswin]

Good luck finding a Cavs fan who regrets not trading Mobley.

If KD was 26, grew up a Cavs fan, and was excited to team-up with Garland, Allen, and Mitchell ... I might reconsider?

Lakers fans started rubbing their hands last year that our So Cal kid may eventually make his way there, but they weren't considering his personality.

Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc fans should understand, we need or at least prefer players with different priorities.

I said KD package not KD himself.

Why would I be suggesting any Cavs fan regret not trading Mobley for Mitchell?!? Not even close to what I was saying. And not sure why you are trying to change subject matter from point I am making.

Now, if it could have been Mitchell and say OG, roster is sounding sexy. OG would have been risk but maybe worth the 1sts (some from Jazz too) from a Cavs team just traded Mobley for Mitchell.

Allen
Markkanen
OG
Mitchell
Garland

No thank you. No player in the league is worth trading Mobley at this moment.

That’s right, Mobley is NBA’s only untouchable player.

[ChaseDown]

Well the fact of the matter is Mobley is and will stay on the team. We can hypothesize all day, but Markannen is flourishing in Utah, a chance he never would have gotten in CLE.

[Pointgod]

You keep Mobley because he’s the ceiling raiser on the Cavs team and he’s essentially the insurance that you don’t start giving away lottery picks if Donovan Mitchell bounces. The Cavs have the best defence in the NBA and a lot of that is because of Mobley. Yea the Jazz got a steal by getting Markkanen back but the Mobley was never really an option. I guess Jarrett Allen was the other option to trade, but I have no idea of the Jazz we’re even interested. The trade has already been a win for both teams and the Cavs are looking like they’ll be an up and coming force in the East.

[JonFromVA]

I said KD package not KD himself.

Why would I be suggesting any Cavs fan regret not trading Mobley for Mitchell?!? Not even close to what I was saying. And not sure why you are trying to change subject matter from point I am making.

Now, if it could have been Mitchell and say OG, roster is sounding sexy. OG would have been risk but maybe worth the 1sts (some from Jazz too) from a Cavs team just traded Mobley for Mitchell.

Allen
Markkanen
OG
Mitchell
Garland

Its not hard to pick apart hypothetical deals...

Mobley is under team control a lot longer than OG or even LM and the 5th guy will need to be cost controlled in the long run.

Also Lauri is not a starting PF. All his success has come playing SF.

And finally, just no thanks. The Cavs already have the best net rating in the league in spite of their hole at SF because they can keep Mobley or Allen on the floor at all times in addition to Garland or Mitchell.

Than make it KD package for Siakam and keep Lauri at SF. Siakam can at least be extended at not flight risk (as much compared to OG).
Allen
Siakam
Markkannen
Mitchell
Garland

Point is, poster above said IF Mobley instead of Lauri (at time of Jazz trade), Ainge is one adding picks. If so, I say Mobley should have been added. Cavs not only keep Markkanen (as this whole thread you clicked on is about) but retain the “KD package” aka 4x1sts+Swaps for player to be named later (see Siakam as example). Mobley is a great player, and rookie contract locked in, but he just isn’t better to Cavs success than Lauri+Siakam (for example).

Still disagree. If Siakim was anywhere close to the current let alone a prime Mobley, the Raptors wouldn't have the 16th ranked defense. He's also unrestricted and expecting a max deal.

A big part of why Lauri worked in Cleveland is because he had Allen and Mobley next to him. He has another rookie rim protector in Utah, and that's good enough for the 24th ranked defense? No thanks.

Fact is in the NBA a team can barely afford 3 vet max deals, so getting the most production from those players is paramount as well as taking advantage of whatever time you have when they are on cheaper deals.

Evan is the last player the Cavs would give up. His presence on the team almost guarantees they will be able to keep their core together for at least the next 7 years and keep the Cavs out of the lottery.

We can imagine other player combinations working, but I feel a lot more comfortable in what I see working. Which, btw, is why I was positive about trading for Mitchell. We'd seen Allen and Mobley could protect a small backcourt and we saw Garland was at his best with another playmaker to share the load, who could let him play off the ball at times.

[edededtut]

He has another rookie rim protector in Utah, and that's good enough for the 24th ranked defense? No thanks.

Count me in the mobley bandwagon, but this is quite a lazy take.

Kessler has played only 22,6 minutes per game. Other than him utah hasn’t really had any good defensive players whole season. Conley, sexton, clarkson and Beasley didn’t stop anyone on the perimeter, and vando, olynyk and gay arent really rim protectors to be feared.

Agbaji and THT are a bit better on the wing and the numbers have probably improved since the trade. I’m sure Kessler’s minutes have increased.

Defending the paint is also Lauri’s biggest weakness, but he has basically been their best wing defender, which obviously isn’t ideal.

[JonFromVA]

He has another rookie rim protector in Utah, and that's good enough for the 24th ranked defense? No thanks.

Count me in the mobley bandwagon, but this is quite a lazy take.

Kessler has played only 22,6 minutes per game. Other than him utah hasn’t really had any good defensive players whole season. Conley, sexton, clarkson and Beasley didn’t stop anyone on the perimeter, and vando, olynyk and gay arent really rim protectors to be feared.

Agbaji and THT are a bit better on the wing and the numbers have probably improved since the trade. I’m sure Kessler’s minutes have increased.

Defending the paint is also Lauri’s biggest weakness, but he has basically been their best wing defender, which obviously isn’t ideal.

I'm trying to present an evidence based argument and no matter how you slice it, what's going on in Toronto and Utah is not positive evidence the Cavs would still be able to protect a Garland/Mitchell backcourt if they broke up the Allen/Mobley frontcourt.

While Lauri fit in nicely with those two guys behind him, they are doing more than fine without him and Mitchell taking his place.

So call it lazy if you want, but it should be obvious. You know ... if you watched the Cavs these past two years, anyway.

[Warriorfan]

yes, three late first round picks is worth soooo much more than a top#15 player who is only 26

Depends warriors drafted Looney and Poole end of 1st.
Ezelli started 80gms b4 injury. Damian Jones still in the League.

Dray Green and Jokic HOF level 2nds.

I put Mitchell in the mid 20s. Not an MVP type and think he won't age well as a small SG. He averages 15 missed games.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-top-100-player-rankings-giannis-stephen-curry-kevin-durant-vie-for-no-1-lebron-james-slips/

and the warriors biffed on a bunch of recent top 10 picks, proving the point the draft is a crapshoot, where as Mitchell is a proven star.

I’m glad you have mitchell in the mid 20’s, but your personal opinion aside the consensus os he’s been a top 15 level player this year.

Your point that smaller players age poorly is a good one, which is why the fact the Mitchell is only 26 is salient

Still have time to improve for warrior rookies The recent lottery picks have 4 all stars with multiple chsmpionships and defending the title. I posted support that Mitchell is not as good as you believe.

Point you are missing is Markenen can be considered a top 25 player and more assets were given on top of this.

[edededtut]

I didn’t say anything about the Cavs did I? I only got involved in this thread because someone was criminally undervaluing mobley.

I do agree that having two midgets in the backcourt makes it important to have big guys who can protect the paint. I’m in no way arguing the cavs should have traded someone else to the Jazz.

What I am arguing is that pointing out Utah’s defensive ranking as a way to prove a point about Lauri’s defense is quite lazy considering the utah roster this season. Yes, he is not a defensive anchor and never will be, but he has improved defensively from last season quite a lot.

Any way, looks like a win-win trade for everyone so everyone is happy

Losing agbaji in the trade too must sting by the way, he’d be perfect to round out the cavs lineup. Great drafting again by the cavs gm..

[JonFromVA]

I didn’t say anything about the Cavs did I? I only got involved in this thread because someone was criminally undervaluing mobley.

I do agree that having two midgets in the backcourt makes it important to have big guys who can protect the paint. I’m in no way arguing the cavs should have traded someone else to the Jazz.

What I am arguing is that pointing out Utah’s defensive ranking as a way to prove a point about Lauri’s defense is quite lazy considering the utah roster this season. Yes, he is not a defensive anchor and never will be, but he has improved defensively from last season quite a lot.

Any way, looks like a win-win trade for everyone so everyone is happy

Losing agbaji in the trade too must sting by the way, he’d be perfect to round out the cavs lineup. Great drafting again by the cavs gm..

Of course we didn't like losing Agbaji, but I'm not sure he would have beaten anyone out this season and Okoro is nearly a year younger and is further ahead as a defender, ball handler, and passer as he continues to develop his shot.

As for Lauri's defense, I find it hard to accept a player is anything special on D when his team stinks on D. If you've got some lineups you feel represent Lauri's ability more accurately, feel free to present your counter evidence.

Not that it matters if we actually agree on the main point that Allen and Mobley are key parts of why the Cavs can be a top D with a 6'1 backcourt.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs should have traded for mike Conley if they wanted the Jazz best point guard.

Why? They have a better, younger, cheaper version of him already on the roster.

[mg]

Even on a do over there aren't any Cav fans who would trade Mobley instead of Lauri. Mobley has a real shot to be a top 10 and potentially even a top 5 player in this league if he reaches his ceiling. He's a guy that plays both ends of the floor too.

Cavs were able to sign Lauri on the cheap and after one season able to rehab his value enough to use him as part of the bait to acquire MItchell. If any team should be having heartburn over Lauri's breakout it should be the Bulls who drafted him and proceeded to let him walk at the end of his rookie contract for a few magic beans.

[Zetsword]

I'm curious what the Cavs will look like having Mitchell/Garland with three guys that can't hit the three in the lineup in the playoffs. It's gonna be interesting.