OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT

[mrvioletowl]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

[Raps in 4]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

Novak has temper issues and can act like a child during matches (but he's a gracious loser post-game). Roger would frequently get salty when he loses. Nadal was mostly cool, although he'd also get salty from time to time (especially late career Nadal). They're all human. I don't really hold that against them.

[mrvioletowl]

I don't hold it against them as long as the emotion is sincere.

[bledredwine]

This is all you got right here.



So let's see how things stand in basketball

1. Best stats ever - Wilt Chamberlain
2. Most championship as the best player on a team - Bill Rusell

But people are arguing about Jordan or LeBron. Now in team sport quality of teammates is important. And quality of competittion/era is also important.

In tennis here are biggest achivements, and leader in those stats

1. Number of weaks at the No 1 - Djokovic
2. Number of year end No 1 - Djokovic
3. Number of Grend Slams won - Djokovic
4. Number of Year end tournament trophys - Djokovic
5. Nubber of ATP 1000 torunaments won - Djokovic
6. The most ATP points in a week ever (highest peak) - Djokovic

He did it in the hardest era of men's tennis competing with 2 undesputed 2nd and 3rd best players ever

Federer - 2nd ever in weaks at the No 1, and 3rd in Number of Grend Slams won
Nadal - 2nd ever in Grend Slams won, and undisputed GOAT of clay courts

Novak first become 1st in atp points when Federer was 29yo in his prime and Nadal was 25, by taking the first place on atp list from Federer.
He is having better h2h score against both of them. Complited non calendar year grand-slam non of them achived.

This thread started when he won Olympich gold, only thing missing in his resume.

So to conclude, he is UNDESPUTED GOAT, and you don't know much about tennis.
BTW don't call me a fanboy, call me nice and educated poster willing to spend his time to teach you something
You're welcome

That’s a lot of cherry picking and of course more trophies and accolades are won in an individual sport— common sense.

Jordan has all of the above covered-
Championships
Offensive accolades
Defensive accolades
Advanced stats

Either first or at worst top three in all of those (site there are some repeat DPOY but only 1 other 9 time 1st team defense)

So yeah, Jordan’s a hell of a lot more dominant that Djokovic.

jordan is arguably not the goat of basketball but no one argues that djokovic is not the goat of tennis

Objectively not true at all.

[EmpireFalls]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

This is such a transparently Serbian comment I have to laugh. You guys have the biggest inferiority complex in the entire universe. No one had any issue at all with Monica Seles or Ana Ivanovic bc of where they were from.

Federer was a fierce competitor who hated to lose to anybody. I don’t think it had anything to do with nationality.

[p0peye]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

This is such a transparently Serbian comment I have to laugh. You guys have the biggest inferiority complex in the entire universe. No one had any issue at all with Monica Seles or Ana Ivanovic bc of where they were from.

Federer was a fierce competitor who hated to lose to anybody. I don’t think it had anything to do with nationality.

Don't mistake your own insecurities for national analysis. Keep your issues to yourself instead of projecting them onto an entire nation.

[GeorgeSears]

The number of seasons in which they participated in all Grand Slam tournaments:

Rafael Nadal - 10 seasons (22 GS)
Novak Djokovic - 18 seasons (24 GS)

Rafael Nadal's opponent was his own body. And despite everything, he won 22 Grand Slam.

He's the only athlete who's both a GOAT and a 'what if' at the same time.

[mrvioletowl]

The funny thing is I'm Croatian, but OK.

[mrvioletowl]

And since we brought up Monika Seles - she was literally stabbed in the back with a knife by a German dude at a match.

[GeorgeSears]

This post-game conference from 2011 always comes to my mind when people talk about Federer. Absolutely disgusting.

Watch on YouTube

I don't think it's disgusting. Put yourself in his shoes: you're in the semifinals, and you're up 5-3 in the fifth set with a double match point. Meaning you need to just get one more point and you win the match and face Nadal in the final.

What happens next is Djokovic hits probably the flukiest return of his entire career to save the match point while off balance (his legs cross after the shot). Granted, it wasn't the best serve Federer ever produced, but it was wide and well placed. And Djokovic doesn't just return the serve, but he scores a winner (for those that don't know, a winner is a shot that successfully lands in the opponent's court and cannot be reached or returned, resulting in an immediate point for the player who hit it).

In basketball terms, it's basically the equivalent of: you're at the free-throw line with one second left, no timeouts remaining for either team, and your team is up by three points. You miss the shot, the defender grabs the rebound, and heaves a three-quarter court shot that miraculously goes in, sending the game into overtime.

Sour grapes? Sure. Federer collapsed afterwards. Frustration? absolutely. Not a disgusting reaction.

[Rust_Cohle]

The number of seasons in which they participated in all Grand Slam tournaments:

Rafael Nadal - 10 seasons (22 GS)
Novak Djokovic - 18 seasons (24 GS)

Rafael Nadal's opponent was his own body. And despite everything, he won 22 Grand Slam.

He's the only athlete who's both a GOAT and a 'what if' at the same time.

Mostly on one surface, he doesn’t have an all around goat argument as Djokovic has the far more varied grand slam count. But nadal is goat clay for sure. Djokovic also had a superior h2h agaianr nadal as well

[Prez]

This post-game conference from 2011 always comes to my mind when people talk about Federer. Absolutely disgusting.

Watch on YouTube

I don't think it's disgusting. Put yourself in his shoes: you're in the semifinals, and you're up 5-3 in the fifth set with a double match point. Meaning you need to just get one more point and you win the match and face Nadal in the final.

What happens next is Djokovic hits probably the flukiest return of his entire career to save the match point while off balance (his legs cross after the shot). Granted, it wasn't the best serve Federer ever produced, but it was wide and well placed. And Djokovic doesn't just return the serve, but he scores a winner (for those that don't know, a winner is a shot that successfully lands in the opponent's court and cannot be reached or returned, resulting in an immediate point for the player who hit it).

In basketball terms, it's basically the equivalent of: you're at the free-throw line with one second left, no timeouts remaining for either team, and your team is up by three points. You miss the shot, the defender grabs the rebound, and heaves a three-quarter court shot that miraculously goes in, sending the game into overtime.

Sour grapes? Sure. Federer collapsed afterwards. Frustration? absolutely. Not a disgusting reaction.

No, there's nothing flukey about it at all lmao. I don't even like Djokovic but he's literally the greatest returner in the history of the sport and has been cracking return winners, off balance or not, for literally like 15+ years. Also, for as amazing an athlete as he is, he's also always had instances of weird body control on the follow through on some of his shots even when there is 100% intentionality behind the shot. He's openly talked about this exact return and how he knew Federer's tendency was to go wide on the deuce side on critical points against him. He anticipated that exact serve and was ready to take a calculated risk and slap that return. And honestly it wasn't even a particularly well placed serve, he went wide but it wasn't even close to the lines and it was one small step from Djokovic's strike zone on the forehand side.

[azcatz11]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

Novak has temper issues and can act like a child during matches (but he's a gracious loser post-game). Roger would frequently get salty when he loses. Nadal was mostly cool, although he'd also get salty from time to time (especially late career Nadal). They're all human. I don't really hold that against them.

Novak is my least favorite of the 3 but I give him a lot of credit like you said because crowds openly root against him. He doesn’t deserve that crap. People don’t appreciate his greatness and never have. He’s handled it better than anyone could have in his position.

[-Luke-]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

Not sure whether it had something to do with West vs. East, but there's definitely some truth to the claim that Federer was a fake nice guy. I liked him, because of his game. He had a beautiful game. But there was something fake about his personality. Rafa on the other hand seemed like a genuine nice guy. Agassi was seen as a tennis version of Dennis Rodman at times, but I also think he's a genuine nice guy. They are all 100 times better than Zverev, though. When he loses, it never has anything to do with himself. It's the weather (opponent has the same weather), the balls (opponent plays with the same balls), the audience (opponent plays in front of the same audience) or something else. Just a spoiled brat.

I guess why some Westeners (which I am as well, bit I like Novak) dislike Djokovic is because he loves his family, loves his country, loves his God and has elite work ethic. That alone makes you a right-wing extremist in Western European media nowadays. And in every sport many people let their personal sympathies influence their view when it should be purely sports related, like in the GOAT debate.

[BelgradeNugget]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

This is such a transparently Serbian comment I have to laugh. You guys have the biggest inferiority complex in the entire universe. No one had any issue at all with Monica Seles or Ana Ivanovic bc of where they were from.

Federer was a fierce competitor who hated to lose to anybody. I don’t think it had anything to do with nationality.

The funny thing is I'm Croatian, but OK.

Next thing will be

'This is such a transparently Serbian Balkan comment I have to laugh. You guys have the biggest inferiority complex in the entire universe.'

And then you might add - but I'm half Czech, so it will then go

'This is such a transparently Serbian Eastern European comment I have to laugh. You guys have the biggest inferiority complex in the entire universe.'

and we are in the biggining

[Rust_Cohle]

Sinner/Alcaraz is gonna be awesome tomorrow!

[Johnny Firpo]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

There isn't a faker nice guy in the whole sports world than Djoker. It's a well-known fact that his family are full of hateful idiots. And idiot by the exact sense too, they are anti vaxxers. The guy himself believes water has a conscience. He tried to kiss every crowds' collective butt for nearly two decades before finally giving up and just let it go.

[Johnny Firpo]

I mean, talent aside, it's a not exactly a secret that Federer is a known Western elitist who hated losing to any Easter European/Slavic players. All that " gentleman" thing was an act for the rich audience.
I'd rather have someone like Djok who thrives on defiance than a fake nice guy like Fed.
Rafa rules, though.

Novak has temper issues and can act like a child during matches (but he's a gracious loser post-game). Roger would frequently get salty when he loses. Nadal was mostly cool, although he'd also get salty from time to time (especially late career Nadal). They're all human. I don't really hold that against them.

Novak is my least favorite of the 3 but I give him a lot of credit like you said because crowds openly root against him. He doesn’t deserve that crap. People don’t appreciate his greatness and never have. He’s handled it better than anyone could have in his position.

He handled it absolutely terribly, with plethora of instances throughout the year. Novak never could stomach that most tennis fans don't like him, and likely never truly will. He will also be one of the most quickly forgotten all-time greats in universal sport, and this will have nothing to do with his nationality, and everything to do with his playing style and personality.

[Alatan]

Novak has temper issues and can act like a child during matches (but he's a gracious loser post-game). Roger would frequently get salty when he loses. Nadal was mostly cool, although he'd also get salty from time to time (especially late career Nadal). They're all human. I don't really hold that against them.

Novak is my least favorite of the 3 but I give him a lot of credit like you said because crowds openly root against him. He doesn’t deserve that crap. People don’t appreciate his greatness and never have. He’s handled it better than anyone could have in his position.

He handled it absolutely terribly, with plethora of instances throughout the year. Novak never could stomach that most tennis fans don't like him, and likely never truly will. He will also be one of the most quickly forgotten all-time greats in universal sport, and this will have nothing to do with his nationality, and everything to do with his playing style and personality.

Bull

[Bergmaniac]

"Some Westerners hate Djokovic because he has elite work ethic and that's a right wing extremist trait" is one of the funniest things I have read in a while.