Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season

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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#301 » by bisme37 » Thu Nov 28, 2024 6:56 pm

The-Power wrote:
bisme37 wrote:
The-Power wrote:Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Is Ball shooting a ton leading to bad team performances, or are bad team performances leading to Ball shooting a lot. There may be some truth in the former (though that requires a more granular analysis) but it certainly is not the only (and arguably not even the most likely) direction the causality could go.


Yeah I dunno. I've complimented Lamelo in this thread so I wasn't trying to start anything. Just thought it was something interesting Hornets fans and others might want to think about for a few seconds. Cause or effect, not sure.

Yeah, not meaning to call out you as the messenger but instead I just sought to add my thoughts concerning the (implied) inferences drawn in the article.


I didn't feel called out by you. I thought maybe I'd annoyed a couple Hornets fans and just wanted to clarify my intent.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#302 » by luciano-davidwesley » Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:51 pm

Lamelo definitely still needs to grow up a little. He needs to get rid of the childish frustration take fouls out of his game when the refs miss a foul on him. His on ball defense effort at times is also not where it needs to be (but always playing in foul trouble due to point one is part of this) but the criticism he cops is way too much.

Diabete has scored 3 points in his last 5 games whilst averaging 28.8 minutes - he's also fumbled an uncontested defensive rebound out of bounds. The guy can't score and has hands of stone but apparently LaMelo should be deferring to the likes of him and the corpse of Taj Gibson more :lol:
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#303 » by Infinite Llamas » Fri Nov 29, 2024 2:00 am

ValvPiti wrote:Its pretty obvious to anyone that watch the games that he has absolutely no help outside of B Miller offensively right now. The amount of trash he plays with on that side makes it so they only have a chance of winning if he pops off. If Miles, Mark and Tre were back, then its another story, but for the time being, its a very valid excuse to chuck. Rest of the squad looks like peak Detroit Pistons 23-24


A Gordon, Barton, Monte, Jeff Green, Rivers, Jamychal Green, Bones Hyland and Campazzo.

Better roster than Charlotte but still really horrible.

Jokic still brought this team of bums to 48 wins in a better conference.

Please don’t use Lamelo and Jokic in the same sentence. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere as players.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#304 » by ValvPiti » Fri Nov 29, 2024 2:32 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:
ValvPiti wrote:Its pretty obvious to anyone that watch the games that he has absolutely no help outside of B Miller offensively right now. The amount of trash he plays with on that side makes it so they only have a chance of winning if he pops off. If Miles, Mark and Tre were back, then its another story, but for the time being, its a very valid excuse to chuck. Rest of the squad looks like peak Detroit Pistons 23-24


A Gordon, Barton, Monte, Jeff Green, Rivers, Jamychal Green, Bones Hyland and Campazzo.

Better roster than Charlotte but still really horrible.

Jokic still brought this team of bums to 48 wins in a better conference.

Please don’t use Lamelo and Jokic in the same sentence. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere as players.

Well, you're the one who brought up Jokic for no reason. I basically just laid out the facts, but I realize most posters in here porlly dont give a **** about the Hornets and don't care to watch.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#305 » by tsherkin » Fri Nov 29, 2024 2:47 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:Again I cannot over exaggerate how bad the supporting cast has been this year, so injured, no one can create a shot but him.


I said this before, but it bears repeating: it's very rare for a team to permit a player to shoot as much as Ball has been shooting unless they have no other choice. It's literally "we're so bad, we need you to bootstrap us with crap-to-mediocre volume scoring because no one else can generate looks." AI in Philly, Jordan in his earliest days (although even he had Woolridge), 03 McGrady, 06 Kobe (although that roster had more than these Hornets, for sure). Like, it's bad strategy, which is why good teams don't do it. But when you have no other choice, then that's what you do, and Ball's giving it a go.

He's just logged three straight games with 30+ FGA. 18 times in the past 25 years have we seen that kind of shooting volume. 5x from AI, 7x from Kobe, 3x from Harden, Westbrook and Vince once each (I mean streaks of 3+ games at 30+ FGA). Bunch of other guys (including some of the same) have done it in 2 straight games, but 3+ games shooting that much is pretty exclusive territory. And there's a pretty unifying theme, with the exception of Harden (recalling that Durant played 27 games the year Westie did it).

So yeah, even independent of actually just watching how bad they are around him, I think it's pretty clear that Ball has no safety net, no support. No one else to really do anything but chuck at 3. No one else to move the defense, to draw legitimate attention, no one else to ease the burden. He just had a 20 3PA game during a 35 FGA game. THAT has happened (20+ 3PA) 30 times in league history; Lillard 2x, Steph 8x, Harden 7x, Lillard and Klay 2x.

That's... an insane number of 3s. But when you have to support huge volume, that's what happens. Kobe, of course, lofted 21 (his previous high was 18) in his very last game, that 60-point send-off against the Jazz.

That's pretty telling. At some point, you just don't have the legs to do be driving and probing and all that. 20 3s is a little nutso, but what choice does he have?
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#306 » by hardenASG13 » Fri Nov 29, 2024 2:59 pm

ValvPiti wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:
ValvPiti wrote:Its pretty obvious to anyone that watch the games that he has absolutely no help outside of B Miller offensively right now. The amount of trash he plays with on that side makes it so they only have a chance of winning if he pops off. If Miles, Mark and Tre were back, then its another story, but for the time being, its a very valid excuse to chuck. Rest of the squad looks like peak Detroit Pistons 23-24


A Gordon, Barton, Monte, Jeff Green, Rivers, Jamychal Green, Bones Hyland and Campazzo.

Better roster than Charlotte but still really horrible.

Jokic still brought this team of bums to 48 wins in a better conference.

Please don’t use Lamelo and Jokic in the same sentence. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere as players.

Well, you're the one who brought up Jokic for no reason. I basically just laid out the facts, but I realize most posters in here porlly dont give a **** about the Hornets and don't care to watch.



Lol Jokic wasn't brought up at all, it's all that guy can post though. Lamelo is crushing it, I really hope he gets a roster around him that can play, he's so fun to watch and I think he can absolutely be the best player on a contender.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#307 » by Infinite Llamas » Fri Nov 29, 2024 3:26 pm

ValvPiti wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:
ValvPiti wrote:Its pretty obvious to anyone that watch the games that he has absolutely no help outside of B Miller offensively right now. The amount of trash he plays with on that side makes it so they only have a chance of winning if he pops off. If Miles, Mark and Tre were back, then its another story, but for the time being, its a very valid excuse to chuck. Rest of the squad looks like peak Detroit Pistons 23-24


A Gordon, Barton, Monte, Jeff Green, Rivers, Jamychal Green, Bones Hyland and Campazzo.

Better roster than Charlotte but still really horrible.

Jokic still brought this team of bums to 48 wins in a better conference.

Please don’t use Lamelo and Jokic in the same sentence. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere as players.

Well, you're the one who brought up Jokic for no reason. I basically just laid out the facts, but I realize most posters in here porlly dont give a **** about the Hornets and don't care to watch.


I quoted your post by mistake. It was SpurNani’s post that took a jab at Jokic. My apologies.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#308 » by EmpireFalls » Fri Nov 29, 2024 3:43 pm

All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#309 » by Infinite Llamas » Fri Nov 29, 2024 11:54 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.


Pretty close game, no?
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#310 » by Loneshot » Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:21 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.


Pretty close game, no?


Idk, with LaMelo they may have won. The score was close but the Hornets couldn't find reliable scoring and you could also tell it was too much for Miller to carry.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#311 » by 316Hornets » Sun Dec 1, 2024 7:14 pm

Very predictable LaMelo is having to take some games away and give time for the team to evaluate what type of trades are necessary. I expect that this is either time to go all in on a star like Giannis or tank in hopes for #1 2025 to pair with Miller/Ball.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#312 » by ItsDanger » Sun Dec 1, 2024 7:56 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.

They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#313 » by 316Hornets » Sun Dec 1, 2024 8:51 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.

They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.


How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#314 » by Infinite Llamas » Sun Dec 1, 2024 9:19 pm

316Hornets wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.

They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.


How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.


Again…31 points on 25 shots isn’t impressive at all. Many players in the league can do that if given the attempts.

And not many players lining up to play with a guy jacking up 25 shots a night lol.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#315 » by ShootersShoot » Sun Dec 1, 2024 11:53 pm

316Hornets wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.

They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.


How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.


Carmelo, westbrook?
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#316 » by Frank Dux » Mon Dec 2, 2024 12:59 am

316Hornets wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.

They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.


How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.



He’s definitely not a top 5 asset.
Wemby-SGA-Doncic-Tatum-Jokic-Giannis are all way more valuable.

Factoring durability, contract, and maturity, is he even a top 20 asset? He’s really not an efficient scorer…
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#317 » by Mad Guru » Mon Dec 2, 2024 2:30 am

316Hornets wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:All the geniuses in this thread, I beg you to watch the Hornets play New York without him today.

Taj Gibson, Josh Green, Tidjane Salaun, and Micic are going to get all the shots their hearts desire. We’re finally going to see the Hornets without the evil dictator LaMelo holding them back. I’m sure their talents will shine through.

They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.


How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.

If LaMelo could prove he could either stay healthy or win, maybe is approaches a top 10 asset, right now? absolutely laughable.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#318 » by 316Hornets » Mon Dec 2, 2024 11:07 am

Frank Dux wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:They were in last 2 games late. Shows you some chuckers in this league are vastly overrated. It truly matters late in games when a tough shot is required. So overrating stats from chucking entire game isn't justified. Lots of players can put up big numbers if given the green light and ball in their hands.


How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.



He’s definitely not a top 5 asset.
Wemby-SGA-Doncic-Tatum-Jokic-Giannis are all way more valuable.

Factoring durability, contract, and maturity, is he even a top 20 asset? He’s really not an efficient scorer…

You have to consider the players around each guy and their career trajectory. LaMelo stacks up against a lot and he has the length at the PG position to score on anyone.

LaMelo at 23: 5.4 BPM
Tatum at 23: 5.0 BPM
Shai at 23: 3.4 BPM
Luka at 23: 8.9 BPM
Jokic at 23: 9.1 BPM
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#319 » by MasterIchiro » Mon Dec 2, 2024 1:39 pm

Who cares if LaMelo is a top 5 asset or not?

He is not a trade asset. There is no earmarking him for another team.

Hornets are a small market team and have locked up a player chasing the NBA scoring title, currently sitting at #2. He's on a multiyear deal for like 20 million less than Curry & Lillard.

He's an asset to the Hornets, first and foremost.

If he can make his imprint atop the scoring ladder, it just helps the Hornets brand.

He needs to win, but the current team is longrange planning.

Hornets will have 6 first round picks available for trade at season's conclusion.

Those are the only assets Charlotte needs to build a team around LaMelo & Miller.
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Re: Lamelo Ball has been going absolutely STUPID this season 

Post#320 » by BodieB » Mon Dec 2, 2024 4:36 pm

316Hornets wrote:
Frank Dux wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
How many chuckers can be #2 in points in the NBA? Lebron didn't get his first ring until 27 and has only passed LaMelo's point average once in his career. LaMelo is a top 5 asset in the NBA right now because he can play with any playing style, all he needs is the talent around him.



He’s definitely not a top 5 asset.
Wemby-SGA-Doncic-Tatum-Jokic-Giannis are all way more valuable.

Factoring durability, contract, and maturity, is he even a top 20 asset? He’s really not an efficient scorer…

You have to consider the players around each guy and their career trajectory. LaMelo stacks up against a lot and he has the length at the PG position to score on anyone.

LaMelo at 23: 5.4 BPM
Tatum at 23: 5.0 BPM
Shai at 23: 3.4 BPM
Luka at 23: 8.9 BPM
Jokic at 23: 9.1 BPM

There's not a team in the league, even the Hornets, even Hornets fans, that would take LaMelo over those listed players.

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