2024-25 NBA DPOY and All-Defense discussion

kcbworth · Post #301 » by **kcbworth** » Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:48 am

Dyson Daniels 3 steals again

Whateva · Post #302 » by **Whateva** » Fri Feb 21, 2025 7:22 am

Poll reset because now Wemby is out, vote again please

Iwasawitness · Post #303 » by **Iwasawitness** » Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:09 am

I hate the idea that Mobley has a very real chance at winning DPOY because of Wemby suffering a very unfortunate health setback.

But with that said, if Mobley continues to play the way he is defensively, I think this is his for the taking.

Exp0sed · Post #304 » by **Exp0sed** » Sat Feb 22, 2025 7:47 pm

Iwasawitness wrote:I hate the idea that Mobley has a very real chance at winning DPOY because of Wemby suffering a very unfortunate health setback.

But with that said, if Mobley continues to play the way he is defensively, I think this is his for the taking.

I don't know if this has been discussed in previous pages (srry if it was) but it's kind of crazy that basically Mobley and JJJ are both on contracts that will grow in size via bonuses if they get those season awards. they're both battling it out h2h and whomever of them wins DPOY is gonna be like 50m richer because of that. that's def never happened before...

for Cavs fans the truth is it'd be better for u guys if he didn't, i'm a huge Mobley fan but obviously you'd rather have Mobley on his current salary vs. a supermax salary, with it's cap and tax implications on an already expensive team. 2nd apron here we come...

Young gun 6 · Post #305 » by **Young gun 6** » Sat Feb 22, 2025 7:58 pm

Exp0sed wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:I hate the idea that Mobley has a very real chance at winning DPOY because of Wemby suffering a very unfortunate health setback.

But with that said, if Mobley continues to play the way he is defensively, I think this is his for the taking.

I don't know if this has been discussed in previous pages (srry if it was) but it's kind of crazy that basically Mobley and JJJ are both on contracts that will grow in size via bonuses if they get those season awards. they're both battling it out h2h and whomever of them wins DPOY is gonna be like 50m richer because of that. that's def never happened before...

for Cavs fans the truth is it'd be better for u guys if he didn't, i'm a huge Mobley fan but obviously you'd rather have Mobley on his current salary vs. a supermax salary, with it's cap and tax implications on an already expensive team. 2nd apron here we come...

Aren’t they entitled to it if they make an all nba team? Both seem pretty likely to make All NBA this season either way.

Iwasawitness · Post #306 » by **Iwasawitness** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:08 am

Exp0sed wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:I hate the idea that Mobley has a very real chance at winning DPOY because of Wemby suffering a very unfortunate health setback.

But with that said, if Mobley continues to play the way he is defensively, I think this is his for the taking.

I don't know if this has been discussed in previous pages (srry if it was) but it's kind of crazy that basically Mobley and JJJ are both on contracts that will grow in size via bonuses if they get those season awards. they're both battling it out h2h and whomever of them wins DPOY is gonna be like 50m richer because of that. that's def never happened before...

for Cavs fans the truth is it'd be better for u guys if he didn't, i'm a huge Mobley fan but obviously you'd rather have Mobley on his current salary vs. a supermax salary, with it's cap and tax implications on an already expensive team. 2nd apron here we come...

We have an owner who isn’t afraid to spend money. I’m not worried.

Dacost · Post #307 » by **Dacost** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:35 am

Iwasawitness wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:I hate the idea that Mobley has a very real chance at winning DPOY because of Wemby suffering a very unfortunate health setback.

But with that said, if Mobley continues to play the way he is defensively, I think this is his for the taking.

I don't know if this has been discussed in previous pages (srry if it was) but it's kind of crazy that basically Mobley and JJJ are both on contracts that will grow in size via bonuses if they get those season awards. they're both battling it out h2h and whomever of them wins DPOY is gonna be like 50m richer because of that. that's def never happened before...

for Cavs fans the truth is it'd be better for u guys if he didn't, i'm a huge Mobley fan but obviously you'd rather have Mobley on his current salary vs. a supermax salary, with it's cap and tax implications on an already expensive team. 2nd apron here we come...

We have an owner who isn’t afraid to spend money. I’m not worried.

I'm not sure about that going to the luxury in a market like Cleveland is crazy

Iwasawitness · Post #308 » by **Iwasawitness** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 1:59 am

Dacost wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:
I don't know if this has been discussed in previous pages (srry if it was) but it's kind of crazy that basically Mobley and JJJ are both on contracts that will grow in size via bonuses if they get those season awards. they're both battling it out h2h and whomever of them wins DPOY is gonna be like 50m richer because of that. that's def never happened before...

for Cavs fans the truth is it'd be better for u guys if he didn't, i'm a huge Mobley fan but obviously you'd rather have Mobley on his current salary vs. a supermax salary, with it's cap and tax implications on an already expensive team. 2nd apron here we come...

We have an owner who isn’t afraid to spend money. I’m not worried.
I'm not sure about that going to the luxury in a market like Cleveland is crazy

He’s done it multiple times…

mcfly1204 · Post #309 » by **mcfly1204** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 4:57 am

Iwasawitness wrote:
Dacost wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
We have an owner who isn’t afraid to spend money. I’m not worried.
I'm not sure about that going to the luxury in a market like Cleveland is crazy

He’s done it multiple times…

He's the third wealthiest owner in the NBA, and has a net worth around 28 billion...

Exp0sed · Post #310 » by **Exp0sed** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:08 pm

Iwasawitness wrote:
Dacost wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
We have an owner who isn’t afraid to spend money. I’m not worried.
I'm not sure about that going to the luxury in a market like Cleveland is crazy

He’s done it multiple times…

Gilbert will pay, no doubt about that. he loves the team and is willing to spend, now it's a no brainer as they have a core than can contend for a while and is leading the East and tied at the top of the league

the problem isn't the owner's willingness to pay it's the the 2nd apron implications that kill your flexibility and a supermax does hurt more in that regard

Sane · Post #311 » by **Sane** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:35 pm

Amen Thompson is averaging 9.8 rebounds, 1.8 steals and 1.8 blocks as a starter while guarding any of 4 positions. His starter numbers (significant sample now) would be ranked 6th in the NBA in blocks ahead of Jaren Jackson Jr. at 1.8 blocks. Think about that, we're talking about a wing.

Right now he's averaging 1.3 blocks on the season. That puts him at 18th in the NBA. Every single player averaging 1.4 blocks or more is at least 6'10. Obviously he's the highest ranked wing or guard.

Further, Amen is expending energy as a lead playmaker on a very successful team as a starter putting up 17 efficient points and with Fred out he's running the offense for the #4 seed in the West. Amen Thompson is closer to matching the overall impact of excellent defensive C's more than any wing in the history of the game while also guarding PG's at an elite rate. If any non-big was going to be an outlier, it would be Amen. Please stop equating him with your run of the mill elite wing defenders.

This first video is a wing defender's blocks... just in January:

Watch on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Xhl07nTRgi8

That doesn't even speak to the fact that he is the best perimeter defender in the NBA bar none - even if he wasn't blocking shots. If he wasn't blocking shots, he'd be Dyson Daniels on defense.

Just giving the man some flowers. Amen is basically who Scottie Pippen thought he was.

Iwasawitness · Post #312 » by **Iwasawitness** » Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:57 pm

Exp0sed wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
Dacost wrote:I'm not sure about that going to the luxury in a market like Cleveland is crazy

He’s done it multiple times…

Gilbert will pay, no doubt about that. he loves the team and is willing to spend, now it's a no brainer as they have a core than can contend for a while and is leading the East and tied at the top of the league

the problem isn't the owner's willingness to pay it's the the 2nd apron implications that kill your flexibility and a supermax does hurt more in that regard

We're talking about a guy who gave Tristan Thompson a 5 year 80 million contract... he don't care how much he has to pay.

epfou1 · Post #313 » by **epfou1** » Tue Feb 25, 2025 4:49 am

7 steals tonight for Daniels.
He really should be the new favorite for DPOY

tmorgan · Post #314 » by **tmorgan** » Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:22 pm

Sane wrote:Right now he's averaging 1.3 blocks on the season. That puts him at 18th in the NBA. Every single player averaging 1.4 blocks or more is at least 6'10. Obviously he's the highest ranked wing or guard.

Nothing you said here is wrong, but as long as we’re handing out bouquets, I’ll point out that Beef Stew, while technically a center, is only 6’8”, and is just above Amen on the block list, also 1.3/game. The difference is, Amen gets 32 minutes a game and Stewart is a 3rd big getting 20 minutes a game. He also has a ridiculously low FG% allowed at the rim. Dude is a menace as a mini-center. Go Stew!

Sane · Post #315 » by **Sane** » Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:17 pm

tmorgan wrote:
Sane wrote:Right now he's averaging 1.3 blocks on the season. That puts him at 18th in the NBA. Every single player averaging 1.4 blocks or more is at least 6'10. Obviously he's the highest ranked wing or guard.

Nothing you said here is wrong, but as long as we’re handing out bouquets, I’ll point out that Beef Stew, while technically a center, is only 6’8”, and is just above Amen on the block list, also 1.3/game. The difference is, Amen gets 32 minutes a game and Stewart is a 3rd big getting 20 minutes a game. He also has a ridiculously low FG% allowed at the rim. Dude is a menace as a mini-center. Go Stew!

Love Stew and want to steal him from you, but he's a big through and through with the almost 7'5 wingspan and plays C full time on defense. Don't confuse his height, that man is massive and he's crushing it on DFG% at the rim. In fact I've called him to most underrated big in the league at the moment. In 1-2 years he'll have a 3PT shot and be worth $30m+ per season as a two way player. Definitely deserves some flowers, he's JJJ-lite with a bit more toughness.

Amen is a wing, he's attacking defenses like he's Jimmy Butler. He just happens to be an elite shotblocker who still can't be a full time rim protector but is miles ahead of any other wing I've ever heard of.

Sane · Post #316 » by **Sane** » Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:25 pm

epfou1 wrote:7 steals tonight for Daniels.
He really should be the new favorite for DPOY

DPOY has nothing to do with steals, it's about how much you lift your team's defense. It's not defensive stopper of the year. Bigs who block a lot of shots but disappoint as team defenders don't make it either.

Sorry but there are tons of people who if they were allowed to just go for every steal they would break records. That's easily possible if your team defense doesn't matter to anyone.

It's an interesting experiment but if Daniels was treated to the Rockets he would get benched very quickly for gambling so much. The only way you can reward this is if it turns out he's so exceptional at it that for once a stealer shifted the defense. It didn't happen so I don't understand what valid argument there is for him to even be in the top 5.

The definition of empty stat. As far as we know he may be the all time leader in missing steals and letting his team'sv defense collapse. Seems highly likely because someone has to explain how 5-6 steals is having no net impact on their team.

tmorgan · Post #317 » by **tmorgan** » Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:47 pm

Sane wrote:
epfou1 wrote:7 steals tonight for Daniels.
He really should be the new favorite for DPOY

DPOY has nothing to do with steals, it's about how much you lift your team's defense. It's not defensive stopper of the year. Bigs who block a lot of shots but disappoint as team defenders don't make it either.

Sorry but there are tons of people who if they were allowed to just go for every steal they would break records. That's easily possible if your team defense doesn't matter to anyone.

It's an interesting experiment but if Daniels was treated to the Rockets he would get benched very quickly for gambling so much. The only way you can reward this is if it turns out he's so exceptional at it that for once a stealer shifted the defense. It didn't happen so I don't understand what valid argument there is for him to even be in the top 5.

The definition of empty stat. As far as we know he may be the all time leader in missing steals and letting his team'sv defense collapse. Seems highly likely because someone has to explain how 5-6 steals is having no net impact on their team.

Dyson isn’t a gambler, though. Really. He just has reflexes and hands that are out of this world. Kinda similar to how the Thompson twins can change direction with their legs faster than anyone I’ve ever seen. Super powers, I tell ya.

kg01 · Post #318 » by **kg01** » Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:42 am

Sane wrote:
epfou1 wrote:7 steals tonight for Daniels.
He really should be the new favorite for DPOY

DPOY has nothing to do with steals, it's about how much you lift your team's defense. It's not defensive stopper of the year. Bigs who block a lot of shots but disappoint as team defenders don't make it either.

Sorry but there are tons of people who if they were allowed to just go for every steal they would break records. That's easily possible if your team defense doesn't matter to anyone.

It's an interesting experiment but if Daniels was treated to the Rockets he would get benched very quickly for gambling so much. The only way you can reward this is if it turns out he's so exceptional at it that for once a stealer shifted the defense. It didn't happen so I don't understand what valid argument there is for him to even be in the top 5.

The definition of empty stat. As far as we know he may be the all time leader in missing steals and letting his team'sv defense collapse. Seems highly likely because someone has to explain how 5-6 steals is having no net impact on their team.

People really have to stop just assuming, because he gets a lot of steals, that he's just gambling and getting out of position to pad the stat.

Post #319 » by **Domejandro** » Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:31 pm

I think that voters are fatigued with Rudy Gobert and he has effectively zero shot of winning, but it can’t be overstated how horrifying Minnesota’s drop off on defense is when he is out.

Sane · Post #320 » by **Sane** » Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:47 pm

kg01 wrote:
Sane wrote:
epfou1 wrote:7 steals tonight for Daniels.
He really should be the new favorite for DPOY

DPOY has nothing to do with steals, it's about how much you lift your team's defense. It's not defensive stopper of the year. Bigs who block a lot of shots but disappoint as team defenders don't make it either.

Sorry but there are tons of people who if they were allowed to just go for every steal they would break records. That's easily possible if your team defense doesn't matter to anyone.

It's an interesting experiment but if Daniels was treated to the Rockets he would get benched very quickly for gambling so much. The only way you can reward this is if it turns out he's so exceptional at it that for once a stealer shifted the defense. It didn't happen so I don't understand what valid argument there is for him to even be in the top 5.

The definition of empty stat. As far as we know he may be the all time leader in missing steals and letting his team'sv defense collapse. Seems highly likely because someone has to explain how 5-6 steals is having no net impact on their team.

People really have to stop just assuming, because he gets a lot of steals, that he's just gambling and getting out of position to pad the stat.

Should we forget that we have known for decades that steals are not well correlated to defense?

If there's DPOY level impact from 3 steals, feel free to provide evidence. We're just treating steals the way we've always treated them.

2025 DPOY