Kings trade Fox to Spurs, get LaVine

[iggymcfrack]

Like if Fox is trying to engineer a trade to one of very few teams in the league willing to pay him when most teams won't, how is he a top 100 trade asset? Why would anyone take him over a top 5 pick who's on cheap team control for the next 4 years? How many teams would like to pay De'Aaron Fox $50MM/year? 3 or 4 out of 30 if you're being super generous? And how many would like to pay Castle $10MM/year for the next 4 years. I'm gonna step not particularly far out on a limb and say 30/30. He's a hugely positive asset to anyone.

[Deivork]

My question is, why would any team trade a ton for Fox knowing that he might have a particular destination in mind for FA in 2 years? Is 2 playoff runs with him really worth it the haul that it would take to land him?

Totally. I'm confused.

16 months from now!

[Wargreymon]

Spurs should say no to Fox trade if they have to give up Castle. I think they should trade Chris Paul and filler salary like H Barnes to match plus 3 future 1st round picks. That’s it

[doogie_hauser]

Fox will ultimately end up at The Spurs, i suspect thr deal will involve Keldon Johnson, another young player or two (possibly from another/third team) and several picks and pick swaps (Toronto seems to be throwing its hat into this multi team trade merry go round)

Castle won't be traded.

[JM00n69]

26/27 Spurs will have Wemby on a rookie max extension and currently Vassell 27M/Keldon 18M/Castle at 10M (TO) and the rest as free cap space. They will probably give Sochan a rookie extension and whatever picks they sign but they can have a ton of space to sign and build a team around Wemby. Many better options than Fox for the price and better returns for Vassell/Keldon

better options like who for example?

Fox is the right age, a vet just entering his prime and he fits their biggest positional need while also giving them a real closer and a go-to guy and a an elite PNR partner for Wemby. he's also a Texas native and wants to go to the Spurs. historically, the Spurs weren't exactly a top tier FA destination. Wemby might change that but it remains to be seen

which players who are clearly better than Fox would be available anytime soon and would they choose the Spurs? i'm not so sure about that

Better options as in they will have Wemby on a rookie extension and Vassell/Keldon/Castle on the books 26/27. Plus any rookies they draft. Point is they have a clean slate and enough cap space to sign two max players that year. And more importantly they can completely build their roster around Wemby. So giving that cap space to Fox on the max is a massive commitment and there's a million other options to choose. Fox 100% is not the best on a max in that case.

[JM00n69]

better options like who for example?

Fox is the right age, a vet just entering his prime and he fits their biggest positional need while also giving them a real closer and a go-to guy and a an elite PNR partner for Wemby. he's also a Texas native and wants to go to the Spurs. historically, the Spurs weren't exactly a top tier FA destination. Wemby might change that but it remains to be seen

which players who are clearly better than Fox would be available anytime soon and would they choose the Spurs? i'm not so sure about that

Better options as in they will have Wemby on a rookie extension and Vassell/Keldon/Castle on the books 26/27. Plus any rookies they draft. Point is they have a clean slate and enough cap space to sign two max players that year. And more importantly they can completely build their roster around Wemby. So giving that cap space to Fox on the max is a massive commitment and there's a million other options to choose given they need to fill out the roster. It's a better idea to look at younger/shorter/cheaper players that compliment each other and can fill out a roster around Wemby than blowing the load at Fox for the max.

[Bornstellar]

better options like who for example?

Fox is the right age, a vet just entering his prime and he fits their biggest positional need while also giving them a real closer and a go-to guy and a an elite PNR partner for Wemby. he's also a Texas native and wants to go to the Spurs. historically, the Spurs weren't exactly a top tier FA destination. Wemby might change that but it remains to be seen

which players who are clearly better than Fox would be available anytime soon and would they choose the Spurs? i'm not so sure about that

Better options as in they will have Wemby on a rookie extension and Vassell/Keldon/Castle on the books 26/27. Plus any rookies they draft. Point is they have a clean slate and enough cap space to sign two max players that year. And more importantly they can completely build their roster around Wemby. So giving that cap space to Fox on the max is a massive commitment and there's a million other options to choose. Fox 100% is not the best on a max in that case.

I'd rather have Fox on a max in '27 than Keldon and Vassell eating up 48 million of cap space between them

[Ruma85]

Spurs should say no to Fox trade if they have to give up Castle. I think they should trade Chris Paul and filler salary like H Barnes to match plus 3 future 1st round picks. That’s it

I think if you added Vassell, they would accept this trade.

[shi-woo]

Yeah I would not want Fox if it included Castle, and it seems most NBA commentators agree, which means it's not happening. Keldon+Filler and picks seems more likely.

Castle is already an all-nba level defender, and he's shown enough offensively this year on and off the ball to know he's going to develop into a 2 way guy. Those type of prospects are necessary for sustained success, and have more value than guys who are just good at one side of the ball.

I think the idea would be to move Castle to the 2 and run the offense when Fox sits, these dudes would compliment each other nicely, and we've aready seen Castle play with another guard in Paul.

I find it wild that it seems SAC is willing to this this year, they must really want that godfather offer, and don't want to wait till he's an expirering and have teams use that against them in trade talks. I don't think they are going to get the type of offer they want (AD, Paul, Harden), and are most likely going to get shafted here.

[G R E Y]

Spurs should say no to Fox trade if they have to give up Castle. I think they should trade Chris Paul and filler salary like H Barnes to match plus 3 future 1st round picks. That’s it

I think if you added Vassell, they would accept this trade.

Barnes can't go back in this deal now.

And it depends on which 1sts. I wouldn't do three of them, either.

But given Fox's - and Klutch's - apparently interest in pairing with Wemby, we could afford to wait it out if need be. We will have cap space and/or other stars will emerge equally eager to pair with Wemby, hopefully not with Klutch, which has been desperate about a Wemby connection - Fox, before that Young, Dillingham, etc. There is zero reason to overpay.

[Ruma85]

Spurs should say no to Fox trade if they have to give up Castle. I think they should trade Chris Paul and filler salary like H Barnes to match plus 3 future 1st round picks. That’s it

I think if you added Vassell, they would accept this trade.

Barnes can't go back in this deal now.

And it depends on which 1sts. I wouldn't do three of them, either.

But given Fox's - and Klutch's - apparently interest in pairing with Wemby, we could afford to wait it out if need be. We will have cap space and/or other stars will emerge equally eager to pair with Wemby, hopefully not with Klutch, which has been desperate about a Wemby connection - Fox, before that Young, Dillingham, etc. There is zero reason to overpay.

That's fine, if I'm the Spurs might as well, Waited out, if they are really the Favorites to land Fox, they should be in no rush.

[Bornstellar]

Spurs should say no to Fox trade if they have to give up Castle. I think they should trade Chris Paul and filler salary like H Barnes to match plus 3 future 1st round picks. That’s it

I think if you added Vassell, they would accept this trade.

Barnes can't go back in this deal now.

And it depends on which 1sts. I wouldn't do three of them, either.

But given Fox's - and Klutch's - apparently interest in pairing with Wemby, we could afford to wait it out if need be. We will have cap space and/or other stars will emerge equally eager to pair with Wemby, hopefully not with Klutch, which has been desperate about a Wemby connection - Fox, before that Young, Dillingham, etc. There is zero reason to overpay.

Agree. Right now I'm thinking something like Vassell + Sochan/Keldon and SA's 2025 1st, SA's 2027 1st, and swap rights extinguished on SAC's 2031 pick. Maybe throw in the MIN 2031 too. I think 3 1sts and a decent young player + salary filler is a solid return for a disgruntled (non-super)star that has made it known he will only extend with us. Probably an overpay if anything.

[JM00n69]

Yeah I would not want Fox if it included Castle, and it seems most NBA commentators agree, which means it's not happening. Keldon+Filler and picks seems more likely.

Castle is already an all-nba level defender, and he's shown enough offensively this year on and off the ball to know he's going to develop into a 2 way guy. Those type of prospects are necessary for sustained success, and have more value than guys who are just good at one side of the ball.

I think the idea would be to move Castle to the 2 and run the offense when Fox sits, these dudes would compliment each other nicely, and we've aready seen Castle play with another guard in Paul.

I find it wild that it seems SAC is willing to this this year, they must really want that godfather offer, and don't want to wait till he's an expirering and have teams use that against them in trade talks. I don't think they are going to get the type of offer they want (AD, Paul, Harden), and are most likely going to get shafted here.

It's perfect for SAC because they are not contenders this year, they don't need to trade Fox this year and Fox won't sit out/pull a Butler/VC. SAC has time to get the offer they are happy with and Fox's value isn't tanked really because he'll play out his contract if not traded. SAC has offered a deal they though was reasonable but it was declined and so both parties want the best outcome via trade.

[sikma42]

The Spurs have their own draft pick and ATL's in the upcoming draft.
-ATL is on a 7-game losing streak and lost Jalen Johnson
-Here are the current draft pick odds (https://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds)
- With ATL rapidly descending, I could see SA having a fair enough shot at a top 3 pick. Play it out and hope for Cooper Flagg or Dylan Harper. No need to move picks for someone like Fox.

[Exp0sed]

better options like who for example?

Fox is the right age, a vet just entering his prime and he fits their biggest positional need while also giving them a real closer and a go-to guy and a an elite PNR partner for Wemby. he's also a Texas native and wants to go to the Spurs. historically, the Spurs weren't exactly a top tier FA destination. Wemby might change that but it remains to be seen

which players who are clearly better than Fox would be available anytime soon and would they choose the Spurs? i'm not so sure about that

Better options as in they will have Wemby on a rookie extension and Vassell/Keldon/Castle on the books 26/27. Plus any rookies they draft. Point is they have a clean slate and enough cap space to sign two max players that year. And more importantly they can completely build their roster around Wemby. So giving that cap space to Fox on the max is a massive commitment and there's a million other options to choose. Fox 100% is not the best on a max in that case.

I mean, Vassel is still young enough so that we can't rule out him breaking out in a more significant way completely but..it's very likely that won't be the case.he's a 24 year old in his fifth season that's averaging 16\3\3 on okay splits in 30 MPG. he's a fifth starter on a good team at best and likely not even that as he hasn't shown the defensive chops to be that type of player, oh and he's paid 27m per season...Keldon is a good backup or a starter on a bad team, he is on a decent declining deal thus is def a useful asset but 10\10 would take Fox 60m over those two at 45m

Castle is a high lottery pick that has shown flashed of something special as a rookie, he's a blue chip prospect. if the Spurs were willing to give up Castle to the Kings, that deal would have been made already. Castle isn't going anywhere, in a Fox trade he'd just continue to grow as a backup to an All-Star PG in his prime, which would be good both for the Spurs and for Castle himself

space to sign who? which marquee FA are going to be choosing the Spurs (and two of them at the same time at that) and when's that gonna happen? there no guarantess it ever does. Fox is a "bird in hand" type situation, can they wait around for two imaginary birds somewhere down the line? sure...but that sounds like a bad business plan

[JM00n69]

If I’m the spurs, I’d be really scared into getting and paying fox for the long term.

That's the issue here. It makes no sense to trade Vassell/Keldon/Castle now for Fox because they still wouldn't be competing for a title this year or next. They won't want to reup Fox for anywhere close to the max after then. Vassell/Keldon/Castle are the only players on the books beside Wemby's rookie extension. The whole roster needs filling out then and SAS has the max cap to build the perfect roster around Wemby. Vassell/Keldon/Castle are all young and on reasonable deals for 26/27 so they are also very tradable assets. Fox makes no sense. He might want to play for them but unless he takes a massive cut in years/money it wont happen.

[sikma42]

Castle is a high lottery pick that has shown flashed of something special as a rookie, he's a blue chip prospect. if the Spurs were willing to give up Castle to the Kings, that deal would have been made already. Castle isn't going anywhere, in a Fox trade he'd just continue to grow as a backup to an All-Star PG in his prime, which would be good both for the Spurs and for Castle himself

space to sign who? which marquee FA are going to be choosing the Spurs (and two of them at the same time at that) and when's that gonna happen? there no guarantess it ever does. Fox is a "bird in hand" type situation, can they wait around for two imaginary birds somewhere down the line? sure...but that sounds like a bad business plan

From all accounts, EVERYONE wants to play with Wemby. The better question would be, what available marquee guy wouldn't want to sign with SA and play with Wemby? Fox doesn't get you to championships imo. I say this as someone who was very high on Fox in college and argued tirelessly for the Lakers to draft him over Ball. I just think the Spurs will have better opportunities in the future. Whether that's Luka or someone else.

[JM00n69]

From all accounts, EVERYONE wants to play with Wemby. The better question would be, what available marquee guy wouldn't want to sign with SA and play with Wemby? Fox doesn't get you to championships imo. I say this as someone who was very high on Fox in college and argued tirelessly for the Lakers to draft him over Ball. I just think the Spurs will have better opportunities in the future. Whether that's Luka or someone else.

It's also NOT because Fox is a bad player and he'd be a good fit most likely. It's the years/$$ he wants that makes it impossible for SAS to fill out the rest of the roster and be a contender. A lot of people are missing this part.

[Bornstellar]

From all accounts, EVERYONE wants to play with Wemby. The better question would be, what available marquee guy wouldn't want to sign with SA and play with Wemby? Fox doesn't get you to championships imo. I say this as someone who was very high on Fox in college and argued tirelessly for the Lakers to draft him over Ball. I just think the Spurs will have better opportunities in the future. Whether that's Luka or someone else.

It's also NOT because Fox is a bad player and he'd be a good fit most likely. It's the years/$$ he wants that makes it impossible for SAS to fill out the rest of the roster and be a contender. A lot of people are missing this part.

But that's just not true. With the new TV deal, the cap is going to go up considerably. In '27, the projected cap is $170,610,000 (obviously this can change, but this is the current projection). I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head, but if Fox is traded and extends he would be making something like (roughly) 56 million per season on average, which is about 32% of the cap and about 8 million more than KJ/Vassell's combined salary. So if they have Victor/Fox/Castle under contract in '27 only, that's only 82M in committed salary (85M assuming Spurs exercise their option on Champagnie) with plenty of money to fill out the roster.

[sikma42]

From all accounts, EVERYONE wants to play with Wemby. The better question would be, what available marquee guy wouldn't want to sign with SA and play with Wemby? Fox doesn't get you to championships imo. I say this as someone who was very high on Fox in college and argued tirelessly for the Lakers to draft him over Ball. I just think the Spurs will have better opportunities in the future. Whether that's Luka or someone else.

It's also NOT because Fox is a bad player and he'd be a good fit most likely. It's the years/$$ he wants that makes it impossible for SAS to fill out the rest of the roster and be a contender. A lot of people are missing this part.

Yea your performance has to be in line with is expected for someone taking up that amount of salary cap. So Fox is a good player and would fit, but when comparing him against his peers at that $$$ he will not perform up to what is needed to win titles. He is a third-tier star that is gonna want first tier money.