2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[Mrakar]

Hahahahhaha you can see who didnt watch Nuggets vs Warrios in this thread...the hot takes man...

[AmIWrongDude]

Bad timing for nuggets to beat the surging Warriors without Jokic after the media and nuggets fans made a concerted effort to trash the supporting cast “17 win team”

[EmpireFalls]

In all seriousness that was just a random fluke game, no clue how the Warriors somehow put up that much of a dud. Great lesson of how anything can happen in the 82 game slog.

[Mavrelous]

Hahahahhaha you can see who didnt watch Nuggets vs Warrios in this thread...the hot takes man...

Most of us watched 23 PO run and know full well Jokic supporting cast is very good, you don't need to belittle Jokic team mates to glorify him, when he really had bad supporting cast, he won MVP on 46 wins and 6th seed.

[Special_Puppy]

Rough night for the “Jokic has no help” “Nuggets are a lottery team without Joker” “No Allstars” crew. They just beat the hottest team in the league on their home floor. Not bad for an expansion team that a majority of the Jokic meathuggers would have you believe they are without him.

Actually, this is Denver’s 3rd win in 4 games without Jokic this season. And guess what? All 3 of those wins have come against PLAYOFF teams. Their only loss without Joker was a very competitive loss to the world championship Celtics.

And Im willing to bet that Denver has played much better defense in those 4 games without Jokic and not the usual “130-125” track meet style games they usually have to play when Jokic is out there stumbling around and conceding open shots and layups like its the Allstar game.

Meanwhile, SGA just quietly went on the road and swept 3 Eastern conference playoff teams without his running mate JDub.

You do realize that one of those wins against a “playoff team” was the Hospital Grizzles? Also you left out the 20+ loss point to the Rockets

[Special_Puppy]

Hahahahhaha you can see who didnt watch Nuggets vs Warrios in this thread...the hot takes man...

Most of us watched 23 PO run and know full well Jokic supporting cast is very good, you don't need to belittle Jokic team mates to glorify him, when he really had bad supporting cast, he won MVP on 46 wins and 6th seed.

Where do you think Jokic’s supporting cast ranks in the league overall?

[Mavrelous]

Hahahahhaha you can see who didnt watch Nuggets vs Warrios in this thread...the hot takes man...

Most of us watched 23 PO run and know full well Jokic supporting cast is very good, you don't need to belittle Jokic team mates to glorify him, when he really had bad supporting cast, he won MVP on 46 wins and 6th seed.

Where do you think Jokic’s supporting cast ranks in the league overall?

Tough question, but it's very high.
Boston and Cavs are obviousely the best, and 2 tiers above everyone.
OKC are worse as a unit w/o SGA, because they lost Giddey, but as a supporting cast, they provide an insanely high defensive floor + shooting.
DEN is in the same tier or better than the rest.

[AleksandarN]

The Warriors were generationally bad this game. I like how certain people use one game to push narratives. The Warriors were absolutely terrible

Read on Twitter

[SpurNani]

Very damaging 3 game stretch for Jokics MVP case.

Nothing screams MVP like a near loss to the Gleague Lakers, who were forced to give Bronny James real minutes. An embarrassing home loss to the worst team in the league, who swept the Nuggets this season. And then you sit out a very anticipated nationally televised game against the hottest team in the league, and your team plays better and more inspired defense without you and gets the win.

[canada_dry]

A rare win against a good team for the nuggets.

No jokic.

Let this have been SGA and OKC and this thread would be going crazy right now...

But now its just "nothing" and "one game"

Which i agree with...i simply wish the energy was just kept consistent. That's all. Not long ago when okc won a game without SGA what did it look like in here from the same guys making excuses now?

We see you.



Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[AleksandarN]

A rare win against a good team for the nuggets.

No jokic.

Let this have been SGA and OKC and this thread would be going crazy right now...

But now its just "nothing" and "one game"

Which i agree with...its just i wish the energy was just kept consistent. That's all. Not long ago when okc won a game without SGA what did it look like in here from the same guys making excuses now?

We see you.



Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ok this is a terrible take. This wasn’t a good game by the Warriors. This was a historical bad game played by them. Not only that the Nuggets were missing their two best players(Murray and Jokic) and another starter in Braun. Also the Nuggets also had 22 turnovers this game. I like how people comment on the game without actually watching the game. It is pathetic the narratives people use.

[AmIWrongDude]

A rare win against a good team for the nuggets.

No jokic.

Let this have been SGA and OKC and this thread would be going crazy right now...

But now its just "nothing" and "one game"

Which i agree with...its just i wish the energy was just kept consistent. That's all. Not long ago when okc won a game without SGA what did it look like in here from the same guys making excuses now?

We see you.



Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ok this is a terrible take. This wasn’t a good game by the Warriors. This was a historical bad game played by them. Not only that the Nuggets were missing their two best players(Murray and Jokic) and another starter in Braun. Also the Nuggets also had 22 turnovers this game. I like how people comment on the game without actually watching the game. It is pathetic the narratives people use.

I’m not even a big Shai fan but all we’ve heard the past week is that Jokic should be MVP because his supporting cast is terrible and that they’d only win 17 games without him.

That terrible supporting cast just beat a team that was on a 7 game winning streak after losing the last game to the worst team in the league with Jokic playing. It’s not exactly crazy that there’s some pushback.

[AleksandarN]

A rare win against a good team for the nuggets.

No jokic.

Let this have been SGA and OKC and this thread would be going crazy right now...

But now its just "nothing" and "one game"

Which i agree with...its just i wish the energy was just kept consistent. That's all. Not long ago when okc won a game without SGA what did it look like in here from the same guys making excuses now?

We see you.



Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ok this is a terrible take. This wasn’t a good game by the Warriors. This was a historical bad game played by them. Not only that the Nuggets were missing their two best players(Murray and Jokic) and another starter in Braun. Also the Nuggets also had 22 turnovers this game. I like how people comment on the game without actually watching the game. It is pathetic the narratives people use.

I’m not even a big Shai fan but all we’ve heard the past week is that Jokic should be MVP because his supporting cast is terrible and that they’d only win 17 games without him.

That terrible supporting cast just beat a team that was on a 7 game winning streak after losing the last game to the worst team in the league with Jokic playing. It’s not exactly crazy that there’s some pushback.

Did you watch the game? Golden had its worse game of the season and was historically bad. No way should they have lost that game with Denver missing 3 starters. I already posted above how historically bad the Warriors played. Are you going to ignore that? Heck Denver’s offense was terrible. Committed 22 turnovers. What Denver doesn’t have is defensive depth. Do you know how many games AG missed this year? Peyton Watson, who some call their second best defender missed? Yes Denver’s supporting cast is shallow. Of the contenders they have one of the worst depth and it shows and reflects in their record and defensive rating this year. Booth and ownership did a terrible job the last couple of years after they won.

[Statlanta]

Between the Thunder winning against Boston/Detroit and the Nuggets losing to Washington/winning against GS. There is no better pro Gilgeous-Alexander, anti-Jokic argument for the rest of the season. If the narrative hasn't changed it never will.

[Black star]

AG put up 38 in this game and MPJ posted 21 10 and 5 with +20 in the win. You know, guys who Jokic fans say owe Jokic their pay checks and depend on Jokic setting them up to be competent players.

The Nuggets beat a playoff team when they're supposed to be a 17 win team without Jokic. "Look at Jokic's on/off it's so insane they have the WORST offensive rating when Jokic isn't on the court!!!" well turns out they don't actually score at below league worst levels when he doesn't play.

Almost like it isn't so much about Jokic and more about how the team philosophy of the Nuggets is to revolve everything around Jokic when he's playing to exclusion of everything else.

[AleksandarN]

AG put up 38 in this game and MPJ posted 21 10 and 5 with +20 in the win. You know, guys who Jokic fans say owe Jokic their pay checks and depend on Jokic setting them up to be competent players.

The Nuggets beat a playoff team when they're supposed to be a 17 win team without Jokic. "Look at Jokic's on/off it's so insane they have the WORST offensive rating when Jokic isn't on the court!!!" well turns out they don't actually score at below league worst levels when he doesn't play.

Almost like it isn't so much about Jokic and more about how the team philosophy of the Nuggets is to revolve everything around Jokic when he playing to exclusion of everything else.

Well if we are going by this game alone then the Warriors must the worse team in history. Shooting under 25 percent from 3 on over 30 shots having 20 turnovers and shooting Under 60 percent from the three throw line on over 25 attempts. No team has ever done that before.

[DrModesty]

I don't think too much can be said about the defense of Denver tonight when the Warriors shoot so badly from 3. They still scored at good efficiency inside the arc, and Denver played without a real center. The data isn't much use.

But the stats that try to translate how good the team would be without Jokic (or stars in general) are incredibly flawed. All of these stats are limited in sample size and most of the other starter minutes are paired up with the stars on the court. Jokic in particular plays heavy minutes with his other starters.

These stats aren't the 4 other starters playing and everyone moving up 1 slot for a season. It's 5-10 random games here or there (often with other important players also missing the games). Or its minutes that are heavily bench focused. Or its garbage time line ups on both sides. There is no coherency to the game plans. No training camps to embed a system or reps to let people settle in to roles.

[canada_dry]

A rare win against a good team for the nuggets.

No jokic.

Let this have been SGA and OKC and this thread would be going crazy right now...

But now its just "nothing" and "one game"

Which i agree with...its just i wish the energy was just kept consistent. That's all. Not long ago when okc won a game without SGA what did it look like in here from the same guys making excuses now?

We see you.



Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ok this is a terrible take. This wasn’t a good game by the Warriors. This was a historical bad game played by them. Not only that the Nuggets were missing their two best players(Murray and Jokic) and another starter in Braun. Also the Nuggets also had 22 turnovers this game. I like how people comment on the game without actually watching the game. It is pathetic the narratives people use.

Where you as a fanbase giving all this nuance and caveats when okc won a game without SGA a week or two ago? Or was all nuance like you're desperately trying to give now thrown out the window and rather the loss was basically used to push a narrative and stir up some last minute desperation support for jokic's mvp chances because the thunder are so good without SGA and jokics team wouldn't win 20 games without him etc etc?

Asking for a friend.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[AleksandarN]

A rare win against a good team for the nuggets.

No jokic.

Let this have been SGA and OKC and this thread would be going crazy right now...

But now its just "nothing" and "one game"

Which i agree with...its just i wish the energy was just kept consistent. That's all. Not long ago when okc won a game without SGA what did it look like in here from the same guys making excuses now?

We see you.



Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ok this is a terrible take. This wasn’t a good game by the Warriors. This was a historical bad game played by them. Not only that the Nuggets were missing their two best players(Murray and Jokic) and another starter in Braun. Also the Nuggets also had 22 turnovers this game. I like how people comment on the game without actually watching the game. It is pathetic the narratives people use.

Where you as a fanbase giving all this nuance and caveats when okc won a game without SGA a week or two ago? Or was all nuance like you're desperately trying to give now thrown out the window and rather the loss was basically used to push a narrative and stir up some last minute desperation support for jokic's mvp chances because the thunder are so good without SGA and jokics team wouldn't win 20 games without him etc etc?

Asking for a friend.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Tell me when have I ever said anything bad about Shai? See I don’t need to tear down the other mvp to build up Jokic. I already said Shai will likely win it. I have gave props to Shai numerous times.

[_NoMas]

Rough night for the “Jokic has no help” “Nuggets are a lottery team without Joker” “No Allstars” crew. They just beat the hottest team in the league on their home floor. Not bad for an expansion team that a majority of the Jokic meathuggers would have you believe they are without him.

Actually, this is Denver’s 3rd win in 4 games without Jokic this season. And guess what? All 3 of those wins have come against PLAYOFF teams. Their only loss without Joker was a very competitive loss to the world championship Celtics.

And Im willing to bet that Denver has played much better defense in those 4 games without Jokic and not the usual “130-125” track meet style games they usually have to play when Jokic is out there stumbling around and conceding open shots and layups like its the Allstar game.

Meanwhile, SGA just quietly went on the road and swept 3 Eastern conference playoff teams without his running mate JDub.

Look if you’re gonna include stats, at least double check to make sure they’re accurate. There’s a big difference between winning ‘3 of the 4 games Jokic has missed this season’ and the actual truth, which is 3 of the 7 games he’s missed. Fairly significant difference between being 3-1 vs 3-4…